If you're Irish, then yes you have some rhythm. But if you're not, then you're hopeless.
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BASSISTS AND ETHNICITY
- Thread starter jmcdan3
- Start date
If you're Irish, then yes you have some rhythm. But if you're not, then you're hopeless.
But what is to be made of racially ambiguous groove-tard bassists like Link Removed Seemingly a White man in back-face wearing a white mask also in black face? Or perhaps a black man in white faced mask also in black face.
Could this be racist, or rather cutting edge ironic social commentary on the present state of race perceptions and stereotypes? And what are the racial implication with his tal wilkenfeld fetish?
Only Link Removed knows for sure.
Could this be racist, or rather cutting edge ironic social commentary on the present state of race perceptions and stereotypes? And what are the racial implication with his tal wilkenfeld fetish?
Only Link Removed knows for sure.
i've been reading this topic and started thinking every time i go to see bands play and i don't happen to know what musicians are playing and a band is going to play and if the bass player happens to be black i automatically think alright! at least the bass player is going to be good and when i think back i never have been wrong. if it's a white guy it's hit and miss. i'll see white guys a lot of times that are lousy bass players but i cannot think of a time that i have seen a lousy black bass player.
flame on!
flame on!
I think that female players play better. Well, and male players, too. And all the others are just as good.
You dig?
I think that there is no "neutral" question without implication. So, what is the implication of the OP? In other words: What would a possible answer *mean* to the OP? And what would be possible consequences of different answers???
You dig?
I think that there is no "neutral" question without implication. So, what is the implication of the OP? In other words: What would a possible answer *mean* to the OP? And what would be possible consequences of different answers???
One might be inclined to blame the word choice of the OP:
Even as an opinion, it's a pretty charged statement.
I don't think it's going beyond the OT. I think the perception exists because blacks tend to have a certain vibe in the way they play. Born and raised around it. Most whites can't cop it, even when they're born and raised around it. I'll stop now though cause I'm clearly in the minority here, at least as far as anyone has the guts to admit it.
I'm not gonna beat you down for this one .
A lot of people here are just jumping on the 'This is Racial !!!'bandwagon , which I'm sure is not what the threadstarter has intended . After reading a lot of stories off TB , of what people expirience and what other people tell them , it seem that the African-American community is dominant on music genre's like Blues , Jazz , Funk and others in that regard , same way the white americans have traditionally been good at Country , Bluegrass , Rock , Metal (I have never seen a black guy in this genre . Might be my shortsightedness .) . There are guys who will crossover obviously and you'll have white guys becoming Flea and Patitucci , and black guys becoming Hendrix and BB King , but even in those case , music you create is influenced by what you listen to as you grown up . If the guy grew up on James Brown , he is gonna go towards a funk direction , a point at which color or race doesnt matter .
There is no real relation to color . There is only what sort of music has influenced you and the enviorment you grew up in which matters most in the equation .
Think about it this way ;
In a white american family , billy whose just about to get his first taste of music , gets a few tapes of Bob Dylan from Aunt Marge , because thats the sort of music she has enjoyed .
In contrast in the other family(African American) , dad hands his son a tape of the James Brown Funk connection or something which he remastered in his days .
Not to say the roles cant be interchanged . But you'd be lying to yourself if you'd accept that the social barrier and enviroment that is generated by family members and enviorment is not in effect here .
A lot of people here are just jumping on the 'This is Racial !!!'bandwagon , which I'm sure is not what the threadstarter has intended . After reading a lot of stories off TB , of what people expirience and what other people tell them , it seem that the African-American community is dominant on music genre's like Blues , Jazz , Funk and others in that regard , same way the white americans have traditionally been good at Country , Bluegrass , Rock , Metal (I have never seen a black guy in this genre . Might be my shortsightedness .) . There are guys who will crossover obviously and you'll have white guys becoming Flea and Patitucci , and black guys becoming Hendrix and BB King , but even in those case , music you create is influenced by what you listen to as you grown up . If the guy grew up on James Brown , he is gonna go towards a funk direction , a point at which color or race doesnt matter .
There is no real relation to color . There is only what sort of music has influenced you and the enviorment you grew up in which matters most in the equation .
Think about it this way ;
In a white american family , billy whose just about to get his first taste of music , gets a few tapes of Bob Dylan from Aunt Marge , because thats the sort of music she has enjoyed .
In contrast in the other family(African American) , dad hands his son a tape of the James Brown Funk connection or something which he remastered in his days .
Not to say the roles cant be interchanged . But you'd be lying to yourself if you'd accept that the social barrier and enviroment that is generated by family members and enviorment is not in effect here .
They're artificial labels that these people take on and apply to themselves. And yes, other people apply them to these people too, just like some people are called "white" even though they are not in fact white, but sort of a pale peach colour, or a little pinkish brown. One sub-groups of these groups also get together wearing brightly coloured skirts and long wool socks, heat ground animal organs wrapped in intestines and throw really long logs called "cabers." They call themselves Scots, and usually identify with a larger group called Celts, but in actual fact are of mostly Norwegian descent, and so are almost unrelated to the Celts, genetically speaking.
Race and ethnicity are artificial labels that by and large serve no purpose except to trap people in the past - both those being labeled and those applying the label. Someday it will be time for us all to move beyond those labels. Why not today?
No, you're not racist if you eat Chinese food, I love it too. It's racist to say however that the Chinese are smarter than the Africans, or the Europeans, for example. This is another damaging racial stereotype, just like saying that people of African descent have "better" rhythm than people of European descent.
I don't think that anyone has thrown this out there yet but it is a theory I have regarding this issue.
I think that a lot of black bassists and drummers are really funky due to learning how to play in thier churches. I have had some gigs with black gospel choirs and some of the kids they have playing drums are only like 13 and lay down some slammin grooves!!!!! The style of music is heavily groove based and has its influence. Maybe it is not race so much as environment.
I think that a lot of black bassists and drummers are really funky due to learning how to play in thier churches. I have had some gigs with black gospel choirs and some of the kids they have playing drums are only like 13 and lay down some slammin grooves!!!!! The style of music is heavily groove based and has its influence. Maybe it is not race so much as environment.
Wow! I really don't even know how to start on this one. I'm reminded of the remarks made to the Wisconsin State Assembly by the late, great, Rev. Reggie White:
"White people are skilled at organizing things, and business. They know how to get the money.
Black people are joyous and celebrate and are good at having a good time.
Asians are good at math and science. They can take a tv and turn it into a watch.
Hispanics are good at family togetherness. You can look at a hispanic man and he's probably got 20 or 30 people living in his house.
Native Americans were never enslaved because they are good at sneaking up on people."
Unfortunately, White was vilified in the mainstream media for his statements. Let's suppose that, instead of the above, Reggie had said:
"White people are better at guitar and keyboards.
Black people are better at bass and drums."
I'm sure the outcry would have been no less than it was. Those that knew the Reggie White know that he was not a racist, yet he was made out by the media as one due to some observations that he made which happened to tread into the area of stereotypes. White was attempting to acknowledge the strengths of various cultures rather than demeaning any of them. He simply chose an ineffective method of making his point.
Racism in practice wants to believe that human characteristics, tendencies, talents and abilities are determined primarily by race and that racial differences are responsible for the inherent superiority of one group versus another. This is a notion that I fully reject and suspect that an overwhelming number of participants on the forum reject as well. I think it important that a rejection of that set of notions does not cause us to reject the ability to identify positive cultural aspects of particular civilizations and races. I think that Reggie White was trying to make that point. Each culture, if examined, has some positive aspects that it can contribute toward the greater whole of mankind. We would be foolish not to examine these aspects so that we all can benefit from them.
In doing so, we must seek to uplift, rather than demean each other. The OP stated that he did not want to promote racist notions with his question and we should take him at his word. While he correctly noted the potential of this topic to be drawn into a larger discussion of cultural bias, the post represents exactly the kind of question that we should be able to examine without resorting to our worst instincts.
Cultural examination without prejudice, hate and fear can only be healthy. It is when we allow it to be driven by the desire for a negative effect or outcome that we tread into dangerous territory.
In my experiences as a church musician, I(a Caucasian) have been fortunate to have played in numerous churches that were either predominately or exclusively African-American. I can say that I have never felt more accepted or more embraced than at those churches. Often I would leave thinking that I would love it if the church I attended regularly(predominately Caucasian) was able to have that degree of warmth and emotion. In this case, it's a situation in which my observation suggests to me that one culture has much to learn from another in one particular area. Does this make me racist? I think not.
As an example that goes the other way, I was in one church(exclusively Caucasian) which was visited by an African-American family on a Sunday morning. While a number of us in the congregation were warm toward the family, many were not. At the church's business meeting the following Wednesday night, several of us confronted the issue. One man said "I don't know why you're all so upset...there's no sign on the door that tells them they can't come here...". My reply to that man was "There doesn't need to be...the sign is written on your face". My point is that one culture can certainly offer positive elements to another. We should all be able to recognize positivity when we see it and embrace it accordingly while giving proper recognition to the source.
The contribution of the African-American and the African communities to American popular music is immeasurable. It is safe to say that what we play and hear today would be markedly different without that contribution. That, in my mind, is not racism, just fact...and one that all races should celebrate. Are there great bassists from several races? You bet! But, the overall approach to the instrument would have evolved along much different lines without the African influence, and, had that happened, I'm sure that we would all have been much poorer for it.
"White people are skilled at organizing things, and business. They know how to get the money.
Black people are joyous and celebrate and are good at having a good time.
Asians are good at math and science. They can take a tv and turn it into a watch.
Hispanics are good at family togetherness. You can look at a hispanic man and he's probably got 20 or 30 people living in his house.
Native Americans were never enslaved because they are good at sneaking up on people."
Unfortunately, White was vilified in the mainstream media for his statements. Let's suppose that, instead of the above, Reggie had said:
"White people are better at guitar and keyboards.
Black people are better at bass and drums."
I'm sure the outcry would have been no less than it was. Those that knew the Reggie White know that he was not a racist, yet he was made out by the media as one due to some observations that he made which happened to tread into the area of stereotypes. White was attempting to acknowledge the strengths of various cultures rather than demeaning any of them. He simply chose an ineffective method of making his point.
Racism in practice wants to believe that human characteristics, tendencies, talents and abilities are determined primarily by race and that racial differences are responsible for the inherent superiority of one group versus another. This is a notion that I fully reject and suspect that an overwhelming number of participants on the forum reject as well. I think it important that a rejection of that set of notions does not cause us to reject the ability to identify positive cultural aspects of particular civilizations and races. I think that Reggie White was trying to make that point. Each culture, if examined, has some positive aspects that it can contribute toward the greater whole of mankind. We would be foolish not to examine these aspects so that we all can benefit from them.
In doing so, we must seek to uplift, rather than demean each other. The OP stated that he did not want to promote racist notions with his question and we should take him at his word. While he correctly noted the potential of this topic to be drawn into a larger discussion of cultural bias, the post represents exactly the kind of question that we should be able to examine without resorting to our worst instincts.
Cultural examination without prejudice, hate and fear can only be healthy. It is when we allow it to be driven by the desire for a negative effect or outcome that we tread into dangerous territory.
In my experiences as a church musician, I(a Caucasian) have been fortunate to have played in numerous churches that were either predominately or exclusively African-American. I can say that I have never felt more accepted or more embraced than at those churches. Often I would leave thinking that I would love it if the church I attended regularly(predominately Caucasian) was able to have that degree of warmth and emotion. In this case, it's a situation in which my observation suggests to me that one culture has much to learn from another in one particular area. Does this make me racist? I think not.
As an example that goes the other way, I was in one church(exclusively Caucasian) which was visited by an African-American family on a Sunday morning. While a number of us in the congregation were warm toward the family, many were not. At the church's business meeting the following Wednesday night, several of us confronted the issue. One man said "I don't know why you're all so upset...there's no sign on the door that tells them they can't come here...". My reply to that man was "There doesn't need to be...the sign is written on your face". My point is that one culture can certainly offer positive elements to another. We should all be able to recognize positivity when we see it and embrace it accordingly while giving proper recognition to the source.
The contribution of the African-American and the African communities to American popular music is immeasurable. It is safe to say that what we play and hear today would be markedly different without that contribution. That, in my mind, is not racism, just fact...and one that all races should celebrate. Are there great bassists from several races? You bet! But, the overall approach to the instrument would have evolved along much different lines without the African influence, and, had that happened, I'm sure that we would all have been much poorer for it.
After my long, rambling post, I'm sure that everyone needed that bit of levity. Thanks ! Very funny !
Jimtoonz, I won't quote your post, since it was long, but I do want to say what a great post it was. I agree whole-heartedly with everything you said.
the guitar is an african instrument.
of course it's racial. unless you really mean racist.
not that it is.
of course it's racial. unless you really mean racist.
not that it is.
