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yea, i prolly wouldn't have tried the alphas in a ported.
prolly wont try them sealed either if i chance destroying them
thanx k77
by the way
how are those sc2010's holding up.. may just go seal one of these goliath jr/workingman cabs and disable the tweet and try 2 of those puppies, (when i get funds) to get a 4ohm cab goin to put on top of this slightly boomy 610.
I'm still using my 610 loaded with the 32 ohm version. No sealed 2x10 is going to be that impressive in a loud rock band, but a pair of 2x10 versions both on the floor will. I actually prefer the tone of 4 stacked vertically but, you lose alot of low mid punch from floor coupling. Best idea is to build a pair of sealed 2x10's with the 16ohm version, put them on the floor, and then tilt one of the cabs up alittle to hear it better. I've been doing that with alot of my cabs lately.
thanx..
was askin about a sealed 210 (eventually in one on my boxes) on top of a 610 vented ampeg 4+4=2 setup
u guys all rule, however the sounds i may be aiming for may be a far reach
was askin about a sealed 210 (eventually in one on my boxes) on top of a 610 vented ampeg 4+4=2 setup
u guys all rule, however the sounds i may be aiming for may be a far reach
I just watched the demonstration videos again and really like the voicing of these Basslite SC10's. With the right cabinet sizing and tuning they should work well both sealed and vented. Not many drivers can do both but these can. I like Duke LeJeune's method of using port plugs for sealed/vented designs so I thought I'd post this vertical 4 ohm configuration.
Sealed mode should be able to handle 400 watts or use a steep high pass at 65 Hz. Vented mode should be able to handle 600 watts down to 40.5 Hz with a max SPL of 128 dB. The low end roll off for both modes looks well-behaved. Vented provides more low end and upper bass with a pretty low group delay for a ported cab so it should still be tight. Sealed mode has an even smaller group delay as expected. I think being able to select the mode that works best for the venue would be a nice option to have. With this tuning the vented response is only up 1.6 dB at 120 Hz while the sealed is down -0.7 dB. Key frequency comparison:
Mode f0, f3, f10
Sealed 164, 82.1, 47.4
Vented 81.1, 64.3, 42.7
Here are some response graphs (vented=magenta, sealed=yellow):
Sealed mode should be able to handle 400 watts or use a steep high pass at 65 Hz. Vented mode should be able to handle 600 watts down to 40.5 Hz with a max SPL of 128 dB. The low end roll off for both modes looks well-behaved. Vented provides more low end and upper bass with a pretty low group delay for a ported cab so it should still be tight. Sealed mode has an even smaller group delay as expected. I think being able to select the mode that works best for the venue would be a nice option to have. With this tuning the vented response is only up 1.6 dB at 120 Hz while the sealed is down -0.7 dB. Key frequency comparison:
Mode f0, f3, f10
Sealed 164, 82.1, 47.4
Vented 81.1, 64.3, 42.7
Here are some response graphs (vented=magenta, sealed=yellow):
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What happens to the sound if you go 19” wide? Then rack gear can sit on top safely and look reasonable. I’m often afraid my vertical 2x10s will topple.
Expanding the width to 19" would increase internal volume from 3.9 to 4.8 cu-ft and reduce sealed Qtc from 0.706 to 0.664 which would reduce power handling. I don't think that would be ideal. Depth could be reduced from 13" to 11" to restore 3.9 cu-ft and Qtc 0.706 but the cabinet would be easier to tip.
It turns out the 42.5" height (plus another 1" if equipped with tip back castors and top corner handles) is too long to fit in my SUV hatchback so I looked at the clever driver layout in the Berg HG410. This driver alignment in a tall format is close enough to vertical not to suffer from the 2x2 comb filtering and I think the rear firing driver would help dispersion indoors and be a good monitor for the drummer to hear us better. If I was going to build one for myself it would be this one:
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This build looks too interesting to pass up so I broke down and ordered the needed supplies (all from Parts Express unless otherwise indicated). It is not cheap but I don't cut corners. You can save $150 by eliminating the high frequency section but the upgraded Eminence F151M-8 driver with B&C ME10 90x60 horn is something I'd like to check out.
I decided to try a set of 4" flared ports so the front side construction drawing had to be updated.
Here are the main components at the start of assembly. A $15 router circle jig really helped cut all those holes.
Here are the front, back and sides. All bracing is 12mm poplar ply except for the two front to back braces which use 18mm birch.
Here is the assembled cabinet with port cutouts and all braces in place. Those port cutouts were a PIA! They started with a 4-3/4" cutout followed by marking and cutting 8 fin slots out to 5-3/4" diameter with a jig saw, then finishing with a 1/2" round. The ports fit snugly with no slop which will be useful when cutting them to length and tuning the cab later.
Here is a horizontal shot for another perspective on the bracing. Triangles are quite strong at resisting deformation so angle braces tying top/bottom and back to sides along with the window pane splines and front to back braces should make this box solid. Weight of the raw cabinet is 23.8 lbs.
I decided to try a set of 4" flared ports so the front side construction drawing had to be updated.
Here are the main components at the start of assembly. A $15 router circle jig really helped cut all those holes.
Here are the front, back and sides. All bracing is 12mm poplar ply except for the two front to back braces which use 18mm birch.
Here is the assembled cabinet with port cutouts and all braces in place. Those port cutouts were a PIA! They started with a 4-3/4" cutout followed by marking and cutting 8 fin slots out to 5-3/4" diameter with a jig saw, then finishing with a 1/2" round. The ports fit snugly with no slop which will be useful when cutting them to length and tuning the cab later.
Here is a horizontal shot for another perspective on the bracing. Triangles are quite strong at resisting deformation so angle braces tying top/bottom and back to sides along with the window pane splines and front to back braces should make this box solid. Weight of the raw cabinet is 23.8 lbs.
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Thank you kindly. I try to be very careful with accurate measurements, clearances, and making things square. Interference fits can hose your project if overlooked. One of the fun things about a DIY project is being able to test components, ideas, and configurations that make sense but aren't available in a commercial product. I think the flexibility of sealed/ported with the (3+1) 410 should be fun.
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The hard part is done so after rounding the corners, final sanding, and 4 coats of Duratex the cab was lined with acoustic foam and hardware was installed. This pic shows the wiring harness and high pass filter. Continuity and proper polarity of the wiring was checked before installing the drivers. I don't want to have to go back in and fix something.
With the cabinet assembled I used my DATS V3 Audio Test System to run an impedance sweep and find the box tuning frequency (Fb) with the full 4.0 inch port length. The screen shot below shows the Fb measured frequency was 46.77 Hz
When I cross checked this result with my Eminence Designer model I discovered two things. First, I had fat fingered an extra digit in the driver Vas parameter making it 2.276 cu-ft instead of the listed 2.76 cu-ft. Second, once I corrected Vas and updated the model the Fb frequency and flared port length matched the DATS results when I set the damping to minimal (Fb=46.77 Hz with two 4" flared round ports 4.00" long). The next question to answer was how long the ports needed to be for cab tuning at the design frequency Fb=50 Hz? Changing Fb from 46.77 to 50 Hz reduced port length from 4.00 to 2.97 inches. Here are the corrected model screen shots. Green is ported and purple is sealed. Parameters now agree more closely with the Eminence cabinet models.
With the cabinet assembled I used my DATS V3 Audio Test System to run an impedance sweep and find the box tuning frequency (Fb) with the full 4.0 inch port length. The screen shot below shows the Fb measured frequency was 46.77 Hz
When I cross checked this result with my Eminence Designer model I discovered two things. First, I had fat fingered an extra digit in the driver Vas parameter making it 2.276 cu-ft instead of the listed 2.76 cu-ft. Second, once I corrected Vas and updated the model the Fb frequency and flared port length matched the DATS results when I set the damping to minimal (Fb=46.77 Hz with two 4" flared round ports 4.00" long). The next question to answer was how long the ports needed to be for cab tuning at the design frequency Fb=50 Hz? Changing Fb from 46.77 to 50 Hz reduced port length from 4.00 to 2.97 inches. Here are the corrected model screen shots. Green is ported and purple is sealed. Parameters now agree more closely with the Eminence cabinet models.
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The Eminence Designer model indicated that ports needed to be shortened from 4 to 3 inches to tune the box to 50 Hz. I didn't have a big enough miter box or a good way to secure these irregular shaped ports and get an accurate cut so I improvised by cutting a center hole just big enough for the port tube in one of the 3/4" thick baffle speaker cutouts. The port tube has a slight taper so it was wrapped with just enough masking tape that 1 inch protruded from the other side when jammed into the plywood ring. With the tube secured, the ring was clamped and a hack saw was used to cut off the protruding length. A finishing pass with a sander left a 3 inch long port. Here is the jig:
The 3 inch long ports were re-installed in the cabinet and the DATS impedance sweep was run again to log the results. The screen shot below shows tuning frequency Fb at 50.13 Hz. Success!!! The model and measurements agree.
Here is a front shot with the port plugs installed to run the cab sealed. Final weight of the cabinet is only 47.6 lbs. I was hoping for under 50.
The 3 inch long ports were re-installed in the cabinet and the DATS impedance sweep was run again to log the results. The screen shot below shows tuning frequency Fb at 50.13 Hz. Success!!! The model and measurements agree.
Here is a front shot with the port plugs installed to run the cab sealed. Final weight of the cabinet is only 47.6 lbs. I was hoping for under 50.
My friend, you kick ass! I’ll say it again if I have too. So, how does it sound?
It's going to take several days of playing to work in those new speakers and let their low end fully develop but I like their voicing. With its tube preamp, adjustable high pass filter, 3-band semi-parametric mids, and damping control the Mesa WD800 is an ideal amp to pair with this cab. The lows, as expected, aren't as extended as my 15-loaded cabs but the tone is solid, thick, and tight with a more vintage voicing which is what I had hoped. The settings I ended up with for a tone I liked were: Input 1:30, HPF 11:00, Bass 1:00, Low mid 100 Hz 11:00, Mid mid 1600 Hz 11:00, High mid 2800 Hz 11:00, Treble 12:00, Damping Low, Master 10:30.
Once the speakers break in this cab should have plenty of volume for my needs. I'm running the WD800 in 2 ohm mode which can put out 600 watts into 4 ohms. This feels like a good power match for the cab and lets me drive the amp a little harder. I'm not into fuzz or heavy distortion but like a bit of overdrive which adds some nice harmonics and a little hair to the notes when you dig in. One thing I hear is when pushed there seems to be just a bit of low end compression which sounds really good. It stays solid but that little bit of give adds some nice mojo. My Faital 15PR400 cab with the 5" mid has it too and I dig it. Mids are present and well voiced but with no honk and the highs are smooth but subdued without the HF horn. I'll try goosing the treble and see how that sounds but for me, setting the HF horn at 3 fills in the high end nicely.
Both ported and sealed modes sound good and it's nice to have the option of either one. It's like having your cake and eating it too. The bass is thicker and deeper with the ports open and a bit leaner and tighter with them plugged. I played a few tunes going back and forth between ported and sealed to get a feel for it. In sealed mode I found myself dialing the treble back from 12:00 to 11:00 to get the right sound balance. Bass and HPF were good and left as is. I have the cab about 8" away from the wall. Horizontal dispersion is good 45 degrees off axis with no dead spots. I like the taller form factor and rear firing speaker. Even though the top driver isn't as close to head level as a vertical 410 there is still plenty of presence and more floor coupling for a bigger bass sound. An amp wedge could be used to tip this thing back a few degrees if desired.
Here are some RTA snapshots:
Ported minus HF horn
Ported with HF horn
Sealed minus HF horn
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Here are a couple more shots of the Eminence SC10 (3+1). This back shot shows the rear mounted speaker. With the waffle grill it comes out 1" from the back surface so 1" rubber feet were installed at the corners so that the cabinet could lie on its back on a flat surface if needed.
Pocket handles are mounted midway up on each side but shoulder width strap handles were also installed on the right side for an easy lift into a trunk or hatchback wihout busting your knuckles.
Here is where it sits in my practice room with the amps on top. My favorite bass through this rig is my Sadowsky NYC PSB5 (Soap Bar instead of J). It just works.
Pocket handles are mounted midway up on each side but shoulder width strap handles were also installed on the right side for an easy lift into a trunk or hatchback wihout busting your knuckles.
Here is where it sits in my practice room with the amps on top. My favorite bass through this rig is my Sadowsky NYC PSB5 (Soap Bar instead of J). It just works.
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It surprised me a bit too, maybe a little less low end didn’t need as much treble to balance out the top. Just turning knobs to make it sound good.
