Behind the beat playing question,

[Just go for it]

Many thanks for all the responses, lots of good information!

 

[Groove Master]

The rubber band effect between the downbeat and the 2&4.

 

[factory presets]

I often see Aston Barrett (and reggae in general) mentioned as an example of playing behind the beat but I think that this is a misconception that people have because they perceive reggae as chill / laid back music. Aston Barrett tends to play on the beat in my opinion and other famous reggae bassists do as well.

The other reason why reggae is perceived that way is because often the drummer will be playing a groove that implies swung eights but the eight notes that the bass player plays will be straight or at least not have the same amount of what in musicology is known as "swing ratio". Here's an example of that feel:



Great question! This has been a topic of many scientific researches. There are many studies where micro-timing (playing behind / in front of the bit is a part of that big topic) was researched any there are no clear answers. There are some studies that suggest that listeners perception of "swing" or "groove" was lower when micro-timing deviations were introduced. Meaning that they thought the music didn't swing when musicians played behind or in front.
I interviewed 3 renowned jazz musicians as a part of my bachelor thesis. One of them, a double bass player who plays with with the likes of WDR Big Band and Joey DeFrancesco was of the opinion that for the music to swing (when playing jazz music) the bass should be playing in front slightly, especially if it's a double bass since the attack of the double bass is slower than that of the electric bass.

Another very undervalued aspect is the actual length of the notes. Let's say that you're playing a walking bass line and all of your notes are 100% on the money each time every time. If the length of the note is inconsistent, the bass line is not going to swing.

People often have decent timing but lousy technique so position change or string skipping might cause inconsistency in note length.

Hi. Sorry for the zombie. Needed to make sure of my opinions and just now found the appropriate records.

First up, big respect to Fams and his body of work. Most people thinking about his style are thinking about his work in the Wailers. It's worth saying that Bob Marley (love and respect him also) was actively trying to make his music (the vehicle for his message) more appealing to an international audience. The lead guitar on Burning is one early example. And the driving, rockier beats is another. When Mr Barrett backs artists aiming squarely at a Jamaican audience, he has no trouble settling into a deep one-drop pocket. The same can be said for Sly and Robbie. Nothing they played for Bob Dylan has made its way into a Dancehall riddim. And I'll assert it never will. You can listen to both bassists being as Jamaican as they want to be on early Burning Spear albums like Marcus Garvey and Man in the Hills.

Also worth noting is that note placement in reggae moves around A LOT. Both within bars and between tracks. Some grooves need bigger pockets than others. And the odd delayed accent can create a sense of space in otherwise pushier beats. I expect the latter might be giving people the sense that reggae is all about the bass staying way back on the beat.

 

[pklima]

Another good video on Dilla time... which is really a different thing than playing behind the beat, but does have one big thing in common: the same accents are "off" by the same amount every time the groove repeats.



There's also scientific research into groove, with published papers trying to test the theory that "microtiming" (pushing or dragging the beat by less than a 16th note) should make the music feel groovier to listeners. Last I checked (which was probably 5-6 years ago) they didn't find any evidence that it helps, though moving accents by an 8th or 16th did have a measurable effect.