s0c9
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Behringer XR18 X-Air
- Thread starter jimfist
- Start date
Looks like I've got my maiden voyage with my XR18 this weekend with my rolling stones tribute. Drums, Bass, Guitars x 2, keys, harmonica, acoustic guitar, 3 vox. Pretty much all channels used, with 4 foldback sends. I've sat down and put presets in, named channels etc.
Any advice for a newbie doing it for the first time?
Any advice for a newbie doing it for the first time?
Yes: redundancy for your control surface. My first trip out in a full band format (4 vox, 2 guitars, keys, bass, 4 pc. drum kit), I used an external router, a laptop network connection hard wired to it, and an iPad2 for remote mixing. The hard wired connection was the fail safe in case the iPad was wonky, but thankfully both control devices worked fine. I did have to make sure that the laptop didn't go into sleep mode or try to do any funny stuff with automated updates or the like. Personally, I still don't trust the internal router of the X-Air for anything critical.
What's your control device strategy?
yeah; go into "routing", find the page with the aux outs, and change all the monitor auxes from the default "post fader" to "input"! otherwise all your changes to out front will change your monitors too.
[edit: i'm wrong here, that just messes up the aux output controls! tweaking the aux sends has to happen in the X-air edit program on a PC.]
it'll probably get you through, but wrangling a dual-band router so you can get on 5GHz will be much more reliable, since 2.4GHz is getting trampled on by every smartphone in the room and every digital wireless on stage.
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I'll have my laptop on top of my amp, connected to the XR18 via cable. I've password protected the wireless connection also.I'll use an Android tablet or the laptop via wireless out the front during sound check, to dial in levels etc.
I've been into the aux sends and changed them to pre fader.
I'm not sure if I'm nervous or excited about using it!
Using my trusty old Mackie SRS1500 subs, with QSC K12 tops for FOH, and a mixture of Yamaha MSR400 and Behringer B112D boxes for wedges.
i suggest going further up, to "input".
otherwise, the channel EQ and especially any channel compression will show up in the monitors and you definitely don't want that.
Why not? I do that all the time, to make sure the monitor sound resembles what is heard FOH. I don't have the time to eq monitor and mains separately for each channel, much less adding vocal effects.
You can afford to do this under certain circumstances and get away with it if you're not in any type of demanding monitoring situation. And that is the point to be taken away from the purpose of discrete foldback monitoring is that it can be custom tailored to the person on the receiving end of the monitor mix and the surrounding acoustics. Being bound to channel strip EQ and compression schemes can definitely be bad news, again, depending on the demands of the monitor mix. IMHO, this has always been very fundamental stuff.
Not every situation is well served by set-and-forget simplicity. If it were, there would be a whole boatload of professional live stage monitor mixers out of work. Even on the lower levels of club stages, there are plenty of DIY mixers using products like the XR18 who have some fairly complex, specialized, discrete monitor mixes going on, but only when they are deemed to be necessary. I'm one of them.
I sort of like the idea of having EQ, but not compression on the mics coming back thru FB. Looking at the signal path, if you put the aux sends as post eq, would that be pre Compression?
that's a good question! i really don't know.
i can see the appeal, if the mains and the monitors are both reasonably flat and full-range then the same channel EQ should be good for both.
problem is that when somebody tweaks the EQ out front and it changes what the monitor sounds like it could mess up the player.
common best practice is to have the monitors be pre-channel EQ and just EQ the monitor send itself to where its primary signal (usually voice) sounds good.
I think you are right - EQing the monitor send itself is the safest option for this application.
Thanks again!
s0c9
Supporting Member
It depends on the console and how you route the monitor mixes out.
On the X32, ALL XLR output busses are set to POST fader.. so any compression or effect changes would instantly be heard in the monitors (wedges or IEM'S). One doesn't want compression on vocals in the monitor as the singer will blow out their voice trying to sing louder and getting it squashed.
We noticed weird artifacts - such as suddenly getting a lot of effects in our IEM mix - one night we had a "pro" FOH engineer come in and mix us. Troubleshooting, we found out that the XLR busses (routed to our IEM transmitters) were all POST fader. We'd had them that way for at least 18 months without issue. But, we set all those to PREFDR and the problems went away.
Setting the X32 that way as a default makes sense to me.. but be aware that if wedges/IEM's monitor the FOH channels (versus a separate mix) via the XLR busses, they will get whatever is in FOH.
Remember -- ALL output busses have full (5-band?) parametric EQ capabilities built in, so each can be used to feed wedges.
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Yes, I get that. Thankfully, most of the time I play with engineers that know what they are doing -- but when I have to run the mix from stage I prefer to keep things really simple. Lately I have done a few shows with only Bose "sticks" serving as both mains and monitor (we're four or five on stage, one "stick" per person). Wouldn't work in a large hall, but for smaller listening audiences it is quite nice.
I do similar things with the small PA systems used for small pub duo gigs. I agree that some situations allow you to be practical and simple. Only point to make was that in a full band format that is not necessarily well under control with stage volume, in a room with acoustics that are challenging, set and forget ease might not get it done, and you may need to scrape for every bit of gain before feedback possible in multiple monitor wedge mixes.
Just picked up the XR18 Air and it's fantastic. Had a rehearsal with it now, and aside from spending some extra time tuning inputs and monitor sends, it's been good.
But the issue was not having easy control over the FX channels on the fly.
I found some great tech posts on the Behringer forum and on the weekend built a MIDI/OSC pedal set that controls 3 FX channels, including tap tempo.
It was a fun project, using an old Arduino board I had laying around doing nothing, and a $20 4 switch pedal box that got gutted and repurposed.
Have yet to try it with the band, but it's working great as of now.
The hardware part was easy, but the coding mods were the hard part for me. I took the main code work from the very generous guys (Colin) on the Behringer forum. Couldn't even get started without his contribution...
If anyone's interested, I would be happy to share some pics and other tech info.
But the issue was not having easy control over the FX channels on the fly.
I found some great tech posts on the Behringer forum and on the weekend built a MIDI/OSC pedal set that controls 3 FX channels, including tap tempo.
It was a fun project, using an old Arduino board I had laying around doing nothing, and a $20 4 switch pedal box that got gutted and repurposed.
Have yet to try it with the band, but it's working great as of now.
The hardware part was easy, but the coding mods were the hard part for me. I took the main code work from the very generous guys (Colin) on the Behringer forum. Couldn't even get started without his contribution...
If anyone's interested, I would be happy to share some pics and other tech info.
Just a heads up - Musician's Friend reduced the price on these to $660. Only like a 4.5% decrease, but still...
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I want to get one bad - but already have a Mackie ProFX 16 and a Behringer PMP series powered mixer gathering dust in storage, along with the rest of my PA that I never use.
Invalid Link Removed
I want to get one bad - but already have a Mackie ProFX 16 and a Behringer PMP series powered mixer gathering dust in storage, along with the rest of my PA that I never use.
Thought I'd add a couple pics of the MIDI/OSC pedal I made for my XR18.
The project box is a used (pretty unused) Behringer FS114 amp pedal, which conveniently had 4 switches in it. Nice steel box, fairly sturdy switch mechanisms, and a 15' connector cable on it. It was perfect for the application.
Modified it to hold indicator LEDs in each switch plus one extra.
Built the Arduino UNO powered circuit on an experimenter's breadboard first. What is an Arduino?? [Invalid or Expired Link Removed]
The complete unit uses very few components- just the arduino and a few resistors and LEDs. Once it worked on the breadboard, I mounted the Arduino in the new box and wired it all in. Cut holes for the USB, and power ports. Changed the end on the cable to a MIDI 5 pin.
Modified the code that Colin wrote on the XAir board to coincide with my switch layout and my desired FX channels and loaded it to the UNO thru the USB port.
Had an idea to add an extra remote single footpedal for the other guitarist to have access to. This one is plugged into an extra 1/4" jack and is optional.
So the functions as set up are:
Switch 1: FX1 (mute send FX slot 1)
Switch 2: FX2 (mute send FX slot 2)
Switch 3: Tap Tempo (speed value, for FX slot 1)
Switch 4: Mute all FX (mute all FX sends slots 1-3)
Remote Switch 5: FX3 (mute send FX slot 3)
So in the XR18, you can choose any FX in slot 1, and then SW1 controls the mute for the send on it, and so on.
If you have chosen an FX that uses a speed setting (like a delay), you can use SW3 to set the speed by tapping. The LED on SW3 flashes to show you the speed you've chosen.
And as an option, guitar player 2 can use the (Yamaha) remote switch 5 for his own FX on slot 3 in the XR18. This way, with one MIDI connection, 2 players are controlling their own FXs.
Neat thing about this is you can pretty much choose whatever you want the switches to do for you in the XR18, using both MIDI and OSC (open sound control) strings.
I know very little about programming but after studying this small program and finding tables online, I was able to learn some basics, enough to have some success and make some changes that worked (and a few that didn't work!)
http://[URL=http://s605.photobucket.com/user/goneflyin2002/media/IMG_5770_zpskdfzzhtu.jpg.html][Invalid or Expired Link Removed]
[ATTACH=full]2547691[/ATTACH]
[ATTACH=full]2547692[/ATTACH]
The project box is a used (pretty unused) Behringer FS114 amp pedal, which conveniently had 4 switches in it. Nice steel box, fairly sturdy switch mechanisms, and a 15' connector cable on it. It was perfect for the application.
Modified it to hold indicator LEDs in each switch plus one extra.
Built the Arduino UNO powered circuit on an experimenter's breadboard first. What is an Arduino?? [Invalid or Expired Link Removed]
The complete unit uses very few components- just the arduino and a few resistors and LEDs. Once it worked on the breadboard, I mounted the Arduino in the new box and wired it all in. Cut holes for the USB, and power ports. Changed the end on the cable to a MIDI 5 pin.
Modified the code that Colin wrote on the XAir board to coincide with my switch layout and my desired FX channels and loaded it to the UNO thru the USB port.
Had an idea to add an extra remote single footpedal for the other guitarist to have access to. This one is plugged into an extra 1/4" jack and is optional.
So the functions as set up are:
Switch 1: FX1 (mute send FX slot 1)
Switch 2: FX2 (mute send FX slot 2)
Switch 3: Tap Tempo (speed value, for FX slot 1)
Switch 4: Mute all FX (mute all FX sends slots 1-3)
Remote Switch 5: FX3 (mute send FX slot 3)
So in the XR18, you can choose any FX in slot 1, and then SW1 controls the mute for the send on it, and so on.
If you have chosen an FX that uses a speed setting (like a delay), you can use SW3 to set the speed by tapping. The LED on SW3 flashes to show you the speed you've chosen.
And as an option, guitar player 2 can use the (Yamaha) remote switch 5 for his own FX on slot 3 in the XR18. This way, with one MIDI connection, 2 players are controlling their own FXs.
Neat thing about this is you can pretty much choose whatever you want the switches to do for you in the XR18, using both MIDI and OSC (open sound control) strings.
I know very little about programming but after studying this small program and finding tables online, I was able to learn some basics, enough to have some success and make some changes that worked (and a few that didn't work!)
[ATTACH=full]2547691[/ATTACH]
[ATTACH=full]2547692[/ATTACH]
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