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Behringer.......

#61
cheezewiz said:
Bob...you have earned a customer here. When I need to buy a poweramp, I guarantee it will be a QSC. Behringer's business practices suck, the stuff is cheaply put together, and thats my opinion. You kiddies don't like my opinion, then flame on.
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Same here, although I bought my QSC PLX 1202 before I came to this forum, but it was recommended highly by a boardy. The way I see it, anyone who might buy a QSC poweramp is probably going to be swayed favorably by Bob. Those who were never going to will ignore him, but I suppose it doesn't really matter. The real problem with the argument of Behringer being affordable is that they're not cheaper. Whenever you undercut a company, someone will win and someone will lose. Behringer conducts a number of shady business practices, but it's for the customer, right? Outsourcing, stealing, undercutting, etc. all seem great on paper, but when it happens too much we have a very bad situation.
 
#62
What a great site! I love these Behringer discussions, filled with such eloquently stated opinions. I , too, have one...

Behringer is doing nothing different then every other company in that country. That country operates by ignoring patent laws, pollution standards, safe working conditions, fair wages... on it goes.

Work there, you make a dollar a day. These days, try a find a product that's not made there. Wonder why good jobs are hard to find? There's you're answer.

Buy their products today, one more will make no difference whatsoever. When you wake up in the third world tomorrow, well don't say you didn't it coming.

Rant On!
 
#63
BruceWane said:
With musical instruments, the basic design is already defined. A bass is going to have strings and a neck and pickups and a bridge. The craftsmanship is in the execution of the design; the choice of woods and hardware, and the precise assembly of those components. The cost of a Sadowsky is not in the wood or the pickups or any of the components, it's in having Roger Sadowsky personally select the woods and components used, and his impeccable attention to their assembly. You're not paying for 9 pounds of maple and ash; you're paying for Roger's experience and wisdom.

So really the only way one bass company can steal from another is if they were to kidnap the people building the basses and force them to work. Essex cannot build a bass to compete with Sadowsky; they's have to have Roger himself. Or they'd have to hire a highly experienced luthier, which would increase their cost, and of course the luthier is going to hand-build far fewer basses than a factory assembly line turns out, so the cost goes up even more. Pretty soon you figure out that you do pay for whatt you get, and you get what you pay for. The craftsmanship in musical instruments is mostly in the choice of components and the assembly, not in the design.
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so in comparison behringer is to qsc as what fender is to sadowksy.....cos thats the way im seeing it
 
#64
I too would like to know what expereince folks have had with Behringer's Ep1500 and EP2500 amps. The Behringer threads never ever get to that point.

If Behringer really violated patent, trademark or any other intellectual property laws, then it should be easy for a company like QSC to find a law firm to represent them in an action to rectify that problem. Obviously, what Behringer has done is not actionable or QSC would have sued them. Perhaps it is that Behringer's business practices are not illegal but galling, irritating, etc to the QSC crowd. If that is the case, it is unethical for them to highjack a TB thread to divert it from the information sought by the original poster.

Ethics are questionable. The application of various laws is also questionable, but less so. At least in the legal area there are precedents that may be relied on.

So the question remains, are there any TBers who have used the EP1500 or the EP2500....what was your experience...How would you rate them.
 
#66
The general consensus on the Behringer poweramps is, if I'm not mistake, that they will work perfectly fine for approximately 3 months. After exactly 3 months, Pandora's box will open in a rather violent manner and all hell will break loose.
 
#71
yeah there is a pro audio brand Link Removed (also a store in canberra, they also make their own bass amps), but their biggest power amp 400w at 4ohm bridged at $1099aus...and there is a store in sydney www.venuemusic.com.au who have a sale on at the moment selling peak usa power amps 1200w for $779us (reg $1300) or the ultralight version 1000w for $999aus (reg $1750)...but its still going to be a few months before i get a power amp.....gotta go test the acme cabs and hopefully buy one of them before i get the power amp....then eventually an alembic preamp, hopefully, the puzzle will be complete one by one :p
 
#72
I am so sick and tired of reading a Behringer thread hijacked by an employee of QSC, that I vow to never ever purchase a QSC product. I'm sure QSC makes a fine product, but I now associate QSC with taking every opportunity to trash Behringer. Thankfully there are plenty of competitors out there.

It's an old story. A broken record. I'm sure QSC lawyers did all they could do in the court of law to extract their pound of flesh, and will do that is necessary to protect their porducts. As would any smart business operator.

Can we have an approximate forecast of how much longer we need to read about it?
 
#73
well as i said before, all was asking for was advice from people who own, or have owned one and what their opinions were and how its treated them...

if a qsc 'representative' has to come into a forum and trash their competitors it must mean they have something to hide :p lol

and i quote les claypool "throwing mud on the staage is a sign of small and insignifigant genitilia" lol :p
 
#74
I've had an EP2500 since it first came out from Musicians Friend. I've never had a problem with it to date. I keep it racked. I also bought the Bass V-Amp pro, mainly for recording but then started to use it as a preamp with the EP2500 because it comes with the built in tuner for more convenience. I have no complaints period. I even went to the extreme and sold my GK800RB because I have been using my Beringer gear exclusively. For live setups I have the PRO in Bridged mode and pump the lows into 2 X 15 cabinet and the highs in a 2 X 10 Cabinet. Perfect sound without any problems thus far.

Other bass players come up to me after a show and they are very suprised and impressed with my set up. I could give a rats booty for what other people think of the company, as long as they make reliable, good sounding, cheap, gear. :bassist:
 
#78
I think Bob is well within his right to inject his thoughts on Behringer. If you (any of you;)) developed a product and someone blatantly ripped off your design and made it with cheaper components and labour and undersold you, you'd be pretty pissed off too. I suspect you'd bring it up in conversations about that product as well.

Personally, I commend Bob for taking a stand against Behringer. I suspect all the attacks on him over it are rooted in knowing, deep down, that he's right. Or perhaps it bothers some that QSC isn't some massive, faceless corporation and that actual people are being affected by Behringer's way of doing business.


I've used and abused literally hundreds of QSC amps over the last 12 years. I've seen exactly 3 failures (one was last night :D). That's a pretty good track record. I know that if I buy a QSC product, ten years from now it will still work and they'll still support it. Will you be able to say that about Behringer?
 
#79
Bob Lee (QSC) said:
I'm not looking to do myself justice. I'm just bringing up some facts for you or anyone else to make an informed decision. If you want to disregard them, you can, and if you want to take them into account, you can. Simple as that.

Some people like to know how a company conducts business; some don't. And some people want others to have the open opportunity to know how a company conducts business; and some don't. The first criterion is each person's own personal judgment. But when people start complaining that no one is supposed to know about or even consider anything about business ethics, then I'll stick up for what I believe in. If someone feels differently, that's fine, but I won't try to shut them up either.
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I do agree Bob, you Do make some good points.... will business ethics effect the potential purchase of a product????? maybe 2 out of a 100...
History reflects that comsumers are drawn to copies of brand name products, it instills pride (of some sort). Clothing is the best example as are Fender copies.....
Pride yourself on the fact that you represent a high quality product, even good enough for another company to replicate it, (as opinions have it). I commend you on standing up for your beliefs but in doing so your steping on your own toes.

I still love ya Bob.... who ever you are.
 
#80
I think QSC has every right to bash Behringer. An awful lot of things don't get solved by the courts (there's a shock), and patent law is tough to enforce across international lines.

I do have an electronics question. Reverse engineering a competitors product isn't a new idea or unique to Behringer - although they seem to have taken it to an extreme. Did QSC do nothing to mask their design - such as mislabeling resistors, adding do-nothing dummy circuits, etc?

By the way everybody, check back for my website of products I'm soon to offer from my Cayman Islands based company. We have:

War and Peace by Lenny Tolstoy- $1
The Universe in a Nutshell by Hteven Sawking - $1
Original artwork including:
The Japanese Footbridge by Frank Monet - $10
David by Mike Angelo - $10
A whole lot of Rolex watches and Oakley sunglasses I got on my last trip to Mexico - $10 ea.
That bass that was stolen from your last gig - $50
 

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