Bergantino AE212 - Just Released

[speyer]

Still not sure what this means. Lower tuning means smoother bottom. Large ports with the same depth = higher tuning. Higher tuning usually means more bottom with a more rapid rolloff, and can often mean more upper bass if the tuning is too high (for a boomier sound).

Regarding the TecAmp s212:

All I know is that the newer model is the same size (same box) with massive rear ports (at least triple the port area of the original) versus the small front triangle port of the original. It sounds very different... much, much more deep bass response, and WAY more polite in the upper mids. They could have made a driver change, which wouldn't surprise me. The only reason I describe the two cabs by the port design is that is the only way you can visually tell them apart... otherwise, they look identical, and since you can't even see the little triangle port in the front of the cab due to the dense, dark grill, the only way to tell the current from the old design is to look in the back of the cab.

The main reason I brought it up at all is that all my Tecamp clips on Youtube are made with the older cab design, and should not be used as a meaningful example of tone if considering the current s212, which again sounds smoother, deeper, and more polite all around. The 212 combo cab, which is also identical in size and look to the s212, is different yet again, since it has the 'rear port' design, and a mid driver versus the tweeter and switchable crossover design of the stand-alone s212. Whew!!

I haven't tried the s212 in all Ken's clips... but Ken's experience with the rear ported s212 (series 2) would be a close representation of the tone of the combo I have. IME, compared to the s212 in kens clips... the (higher?) tuning of the new s212 sounds way deeper in the lows and is much more polite through the upper mids as Ken says. The puma combo is even more smooth and polite up top than the new s212's, due to the mid-high paper cone driver design.

and now... back OT!

 

[Jerry J]

I don't know about Jim's new 2/12, but the best my Stingray ever sounded was with his old HT212.

Interesting, Jerry. This is one that I will have to try before making any other moves on cabinets.

I've been real happy running the stingray through the Mesa M6 and AE410 or a pair of the HT112s.

 

[KJung]

I don't know about Jim's new 2/12, but the best my Stingray ever sounded was with his old HT212.

Just to clarify, the AE212 sounds VERY different than the deeply voiced HT212 with that huge tweeter. The older HT line of cabs had zero upper midrange grind, and somewhat polite mids (upper mids and lower mids). Even though the AE212 seems to be the 'purer,wider' choice versus the rest of teh AE line, it will be tighter, punchier, and a bit more 'paper cone' grind up top than any of the older, large HT cabs (I owned a few of them), with that very pure, crisp, hi fi top end (lower and upper treble) coming out of that big honkin' horn.

Both designs sound great... depends what you want!

 

[foderaman]

Ken J how would you compare the AE212 to some of the other high end cabs such as Accugroove Whappo Jr,Schroeder 212 BMF and say LDS 212/6/Tweet and Also Epifani 212 UL ?

 

[KJung]

Ken J how would you compare the AE212 to some of the other high end cabs such as Accugroove Whappo Jr,Schroeder 212 BMF and say LDS 212/6/Tweet and Also Epifani 212 UL ?

For a gearhead like me, I sure am having fun with all these questions! I guess it is a bit pathetic that I've actually played all these cabs (except the 1212BMF, but I have the 115L+, which should be similar).... too much free time

Every cab you list is quite different.

AE212 (per all the comments above)... full low end, but nice low mid push, bright upper mids, and a nice, even transition to the powerful tweeter that can give you all the zing you want (per the clips).

Whappo Jr.... BIG cab and big sound... big lows (more than the AE), warm mids, VERY organic, polite top end. Probably puts more absolute sound out with a lot of watts than any of these other 212's, but that organic polite top end is unique, and can be a negative to someone like me who likes to pound some grind into/through a mix. BIG dollars also.

LDS 1212/6/1... I have a clip of one of these up on my Youtube. It's a more aggressive sounding Whappo Jr.... all the lows of the Jr. with not quite the mid mid punch, but MUCH brighter up top... smooth but very present upper mids, and with the tweeter, all the sizzle anyone could want. I call this the 'Anthony Jackson cab', and if anything, they sound a bit like the older, big Bergantino HT cabs like the HT322.. smooth, big, studio monitor pure.. from deep low end through 10K. Relatively large and heavy (with all those speakers, its a big box, and depending on the options, is 10 to 15 pounds heavier than the AE212, and 20% larger).

Schroeder 1212BMF (I have a clip of my 115L+ on my Youtube channel, which should be in the same tonal universe).. tight, tight, tight, grindy, punchy, bright, without a lot of upper treble sizzle (Jorg's tweeter and crossover on these cabs is pretty organic and mellow). So, very burpy (too much for some), very tight low end (i.e., attenuated deep lows), but much more even through its range than the classic 'baffle' cabs (i.e., not that huge low mid peak and hole in the upper mids like the 1212L or whatever).

Epi UL212II..... this is my least favorite of the above... not that it sounds bad, but it is VERY pure and, to my ear, is a bit scooped in the low mids and the upper mids... deep low end, pure, relaxed mids, and a bit of a hole between the upper range of the driver and the start of the tweeter, giving it a very sweet top end. Great cab for a slapper, but it is hard to get it to burp and grunt.

I know I sound like a giddy school girl with the AE212, but it takes the best of the above cabs to me and combines them (for my tone goals).

- Big enough low end to sound 'real'... true bass response
- Nice low mid push so you can hear the burp when you dig in at the bridge
- Nice upper mid response.. not 'in your face' like the Schroe, but it will grind if your bass puts those frequencies out
- Smooth transition to the tweeter... nice 'brightness' without that 'hole and then click' sort of thing the Epi has.
- Wonderful, small footprint, relatively light weight (55 pounds), and beautiful aesthetics, although that water based roll on finish absolutely requires the padded cover if you gig it.

Whew..... hard to talk about this stuff at that level of detail, but hopefully some of these words, combined with the clips will make sense.

 

[bucephylus]

I have 2 1212BMF's that I use either with 1X a Shuttle 6 (soon to be 9) or with 2x a ShuttleMax 12. I also have the 115+ for rehearsals, smaller gigs. I like Jim's stuff a lot (just getting ready to sell my NV610); so when the AE212 came out, I pulled up the specs for the 1212BMF and the AE212, and was struck by how similar they are. Mainly, I suspect the AE212 with a little more cab heft is going to have a bit deeper voice, but otherwise somewhat similar. Tradeoff is about 10 pounds, so the player can choose a little more heft in the tone vs easy carry in/out. Right now, I am working with FOH situations, so don't really need the heft, but the AE212 sure does look straight down the pipe for what I like. I can only imagine the result of pairing two of them with the SM12.

 

[KJung]

I have 2 1212BMF's that I use either with 1X a Shuttle 6 (soon to be 9) or with 2x a ShuttleMax 12. I also have the 115+ for rehearsals, smaller gigs. I like Jim's stuff a lot (just getting ready to sell my NV610); so when the AE212 came out, I pulled up the specs for the 1212BMF and the AE212, and was struck by how similar they are. Mainly, I suspect the AE212 with a little more cab heft is going to have a bit deeper voice, but otherwise somewhat similar. Tradeoff is about 10 pounds, so the player can choose a little more heft in the tone vs easy carry in/out. Right now, I am working with FOH situations, so don't really need the heft, but the AE212 sure does look straight down the pipe for what I like. I can only imagine the result of pairing two of them with the SM12.

Curious.. how close is the 1212BMF to the 115L+ tonally?

 

[bucephylus]

Curious.. how close is the 1212BMF to the 115L+ tonally?

Similar as you had mentioned in terms of not being slotted like the baffled cabs, but generally smoother across the lower mids. So, it ends up sounding a lot more open to my ears. I like them both, but the 1212 has a bit less coloration and more SPL; so the 1212 typically gets the call for the gig. However, I rarely take two out - just don't need them.

 

[KJung]

Similar as you had mentioned in terms of not being slotted like the baffled cabs, but generally smoother across the lower mids. So, it ends up sounding a lot more open to my ears. I like them both, but the 1212 has a bit less coloration and more SPL; so the 1212 typically gets the call for the gig. However, I rarely take two out - just don't need them.

Cool, that's what I figured. That 115L+ is a freak of nature, isn't it. You can carry it with one hand, and it will cover virtually any gig... maybe not rattle the ash trays, but it will get you through. That's my 'really ugly shlepp, no room in the van, on the road' sort of cab.

 

[bucephylus]

Cool, that's what I figured. That 115L+ is a freak of nature, isn't it. You can carry it with one hand, and it will cover virtually any gig... maybe not rattle the ash trays, but it will get you through. That's my 'really ugly shlepp, no room in the van, on the road' sort of cab.

Amazing cab (not to derail...). I just took it out Sunday to an audition at one of the Indie clubs here. They have a pretty potent FOH, and that little cab did just fine in every way except for Rock Star wall of amplification appearance. In reality, that's probably all I really need. The rest is just gravy.

 

[Jerry J]

+1, But I have a feeling by the way KJ describes the AE212, the AE410 is probably a better fit for the M6 or M9. The M6 and M9 have plenty of low end booty, so paired with the AE212 one might need to eq just a bit. I bet it would still sound fantastic. I really like my M6 with my portable AE610.

I whole-heartedly agree that the M6 + AE410 is one killer combo. But man I bet that the AE212 would sound every bit as good even though you might have to adjust the EQ and rein in some of the lows. That is what EQ is for.

 

[I Forget]

For a gearhead like me, I sure am having fun with all these questions!....

Ok Ken, here's another one for you then.

Can you comment on how the AE212 stacks up against gk's series II neo 212? The few reports I've seen indicate it may be a (surprisingly?) solid alternative to the berg.

 

[KJung]

Ok Ken, here's another one for you then.

Can you comment on how the AE212 stacks up against gk's series II neo 212? The few reports I've seen indicate it may be a (surprisingly?) solid alternative to the berg.

Never tried them... heard they are nice. I'm not particularly impressed with the quality/reliability of that company at the moment. IMO there. The GK thing is not really 'my thing', although like most others my age, I gigged a 400/800RB back in the day for many years.

 

[rodneyat]

OK...So, I spent some more time with the AE212 yesterday. This time really seeing how it sounded with different heads since I had not really done that. So, I stacked up my Epifani PS 1000, TC Electronic RH450 and Markbass LMII.

Epi: As expected, a very clean, articulate head that lends itself well to the punchiness of the AE212. The Epi is pretty much a plug and play head and that is why I use it. You get a useful tone pretty quickly. It is probably even more so with the AE212. This combination is very articulate and punchy. I really like it.

RH450: As has been stated earlier, this is a much warmer sounding amp and the AE212 is somewhat warm as well. So, it will really depend on your taste. It does not have the punch that the Epi or the LM II has. If you fiddle with the EQ, you can get them sounding pretty close. Just as Ken stated earlier. Listen to Ken's clips and you will get the idea

LM II: Very similar sounding to the Epi when used with this cab. The LM II is slightly more "sparkly" on the high end and a little more punchy on the low end. But, the overall tone is surprisingly similar. Volume, the Epi and LM II were almost identical. Which, is somewhat unusual even though they are rated the same wattage (one half of the Epi is 500 watts). The RH450 was considerably less volume compared to the other two. Different manufacturers rate "power" so differently. Again, listen to Ken's clips and you can get a real good idea of how it sounds with the LMII.

I was hoping to put up some sound clips but forgot that a friend had borrowed my mic. I could use my Tascam GT-R1 but I am not sure you would hear the subtle differences.

As a side note...I was already on the fence about keeping the RH450. Now that I have the AE212. I really like how it sounds with the LM II and PS1000. So, I am letting it go...which, just means I will buy something else with cash. GAS sucks!

 

[tombowlus]

The RH450 was considerably less volume compared to the other two.

Hmmm... that does not sound right. Are you sure that you had your gain staging set up right? Did you play around with the EQ or gain settings at some point?

Tom.

 

[rodneyat]

Hmmm... that does not sound right. Are you sure that you had your gain staging set up right? Did you play around with the EQ or gain settings at some point?

Tom.

I actually did most of my testing with the EQ set flat and then matched up the gain and master stages. I expected it to be a little less volume. Since the RH450 is 50 watts less. In the end, I don't that that the RH450 is underrated or under powered by any means. If anything, I think the Epi and Markbass amps are giving pretty conservative numbers at 500 watts.

 

[rpsands]

I actually did most of my testing with the EQ set flat and then matched up the gain and master stages. I expected it to be a little less volume. Since the RH450 is 50 watts less. In the end, I don't that that the RH450 is underrated or under powered by any means. If anything, I think the Epi and Markbass amps are giving pretty conservative numbers at 500 watts.

Matched up gain and master stages does not indicate matched up percentages of output, because the sensitivity of the input often varies from amp to amp. Similarly, the volume taper on the master pot often varies a lot from amp to amp.

 

[rodneyat]

Matched up gain and master stages does not indicate matched up percentages of output, because the sensitivity of the input often varies from amp to amp. Similarly, the volume taper on the master pot often varies a lot from amp to amp.

Very true, what I should have added is that by "matching" the gain stage..I set the gain optimally for each head. IE: used the same bass with same EQ and volume setting on the bass and brought the gain up to where it was optimal. Then, matched up the master settings from there. I even brought up the master settings further and still had a good bit more headroom on the Epi and MB. But, as stated, this is not really anything that should not have been expected anyway. Since the RH450 is rated at less power anyway.

 

[rpsands]

I would not expect to be able to tell a noticeable difference between 450w and 500w heads. You're talking half a decibel or something.

 

[KJung]

Very true, what I should have added is that by "matching" the gain stage..I set the gain optimally for each head. IE: used the same bass with same EQ and volume setting on the bass and brought the gain up to where it was optimal. Then, matched up the master settings from there. I even brought up the master settings further and still had a good bit more headroom on the Epi and MB. But, as stated, this is not really anything that should not have been expected anyway. Since the RH450 is rated at less power anyway.

Nice reviews, and it seems like we are hearing this cab quite similarly.

Interesting on your observation with the RH450 and this cab. I feel the same way. While the wattage is not IMO the driving factor (the RH450 HAMMERS with some cabs), I think the voicing of the RH450 results in the sound kind of 'sinking into this cab'. I spent quite a bit of time with it, really working the EQ center and shelving points and boost/cuts, and it just sounded dead and dull with the AE212. It's just not a good match.

The LMII sound fabulous to me, and with the AE212, it does sound 'louder' when really pushed.

I have no idea why, but I assume it has to do more with the voicing, hi and lo pass settings, etc. of each amp interacting with the voicing of the cabs.

My guess is, short of spending a zillion dollars on a Puma, the Markbass and Genz heads will be the 'magic' mix and match with this cab.