Bergantino AE212; Part 2!!

[Tony G]

Finally got an AE212. It is the perfect cab to sit between my AE210 and AE410 in the rotation. After a quick A, B, C session, I still definitely hear the AE tone profile in the 212, but it is a bit sweeter and rounder as suggested by earlier reviewers. I got a great deal on it from a fellow tb'er, and am very happy to have this cab in my collection.

 

[Jerry Ziarko]

I do realize this thread has been gone for a while, and that the AE line has been discontinued. I also see them pop up for sale regularly as well. Has anyone ever put casters on this cab? I was thinking of maybe picking one up, and putting removable casters on it. Any thoughts? I don't shlep my gear per se' since everything stays with the band gear, but everything is on casters. Adding a cart into the mix, although it may seem insignificant, would complicate things a bit for all involved in the load in/out process.

Also, I have been using a Epifani UL310 as my main on stage cabinet for some time. I sold my Berg mini stack since it had been just sitting collecting dust. Doing an A/B, I loved the upper mids of the Bergs, but a two cabinet system didn't quite work for me. I don't need the cabinet, to fill the room since I have PA support 100% of the time and the band is on IEM"s, but after hearing some clips of the AE212, it has got me thinking. The UL310 is a great cabinet IMO, but it would be nice to have a bit more low end support on stage. I should mention power is from a GK MB500, and/or GK Fusion.

 

[jerry]

I do realize this thread has been gone for a while, and that the AE line has been discontinued. I also see them pop up for sale regularly as well. Has anyone ever put casters on this cab? I was thinking of maybe picking one up, and putting removable casters on it. Any thoughts? I don't shlep my gear per se' since everything stays with the band gear, but everything is on casters. Adding a cart into the mix, although it may seem insignificant, would complicate things a bit for all involved in the load in/out process.

I have casters on mine, I also use carts for long load ins like hotels.

 

[mrpackerguy]

I'm in. Ran it through some paces in the basement. Wow. Really nice all purpose cab.

With the mpulse600 - authoritative, gerthy, but tough to get both smooth mids, low mids and enough bass to get a full punchy sound. Actually gave up on the parametric mids and shut them off when I dialed in what I thought was a decent sound albeit not ideal - to my surpise, no difference in sound with the para off. Grit up the ying yang. Subtle changes in the gain on the Mpulse make so many different tonal combinations, but you really lose a lot of low mids and mids without much tube gain enabled.

With the F500 - quick, not as gerthy, but able to dial in a nice combo of low mids and mids and bass. Very well suited to this cab. Very easy to get a round yet punchy tone with the knobs set relatively flat and low mids boosted.

With the Walkabout - might be my favorite amp with the AR212 so far. I know not many have reviewed the AE212 with the Walkabout. Gerthy, yet very controllable. Authoritative and full like the Mpulse. Loud. Lots of headroom. Capable of grit if needed, but not as over the top as the Mpulse. More controlled. Low mids engage nicely at 1:00 on the gain,and fatten things up without being too pillowy, then able to push that tone forward with the master. Can even get a little glassy on top.

I have a Shuttle 9.0 on the way.

 

[Doug Parent]

Always preferred my F1 to the 9.0 through the AE212. Tighter.
Nice review with the Mesa. Keep us posted.

 

[KJung]

Always preferred my F1 to the 9.0 through the AE212. Tighter.
Nice review with the Mesa. Keep us posted.

+1 The F1 and especially the F500 seems just MADE for the AE212. I assume the mid present tone and brightness of the Walkabout also sounds great.

The MPulse600, IMO, not so much. Like the Streamliner, a bit too much of a good thing with the AE212.. fat, creamy, smooth. Plenty of EQ power on the 600 though, but I always found that head kind of 'sounded like it sounded' (especially in the low end), no matter what I did.

 

[Doug Parent]

Just a little info for y'all with a AE212...
I tried an experiment with my AE 212, yanked the crossover and ran the woofers wide open. I wired up a new plate with a 4 pole speakon with 2+2- going to the tweeter, and ran my GK700RB with it, in biamp mode.

The result; I realized a more open more present upper midrange. I liked it a lot.

What killed the deal is that the bi-amp GK head cross-ed over the tweeter at 5khz, not at 2 or 3khz (where it really needs to be to do it's job Rob, just my opinion) and that's my only beef with the bi-amp feature on the GKRB series heads. Otherwise I think they are great.

Anyway, to my ears, running the 12's wide open seem to extend the upper midrange, and from there on up it seemed to just gently roll off. I did not hear that nasty Neo "spike" around 2khz thereabouts that I had experienced with GK and Mesa Neo cabs.

This modification made the AE212 sound closer to what my old Epifani UL212 sounded like, in the upper midrange. (Less sonic space between the woofer and tweet.)

Anyway, those are my initial results. Since the GK head in bi-amp mode rendered the tweeter too far removed sonically, I reinstalled the stock cross-over.

In the future, I may wire up another plate with the woofers going full range and make up a high pass on the tweet side at 3 khz and see where I go from there. This issue of the upper midrange of the AE212 sounding a little darker than the AE112 was the only one I have had with this cabinet. Matter of fact, the tone of the AE112 inspired me to try it out.

 

[bucephylus]

The AE212 is a great reference cab, IMO. VERY even. VERY portable. a Great tool.

That said, I am getting increasingly cautious about making blanket statements about any of this gear thing taking one element at a time. What I am finding is that I get dramatically different results mixing basses, heads and cabs.

For example, several video recordings my band took, in which I was using a Sadowsky RV4 into a GB ShuttleMAX 12 driving two Schroeder 115+L recently, caused me to do a certain amount of a/b testing this past weekend. The Schroeder stack is one I use when I want portability and some volume. Thing was, the bass in the recording was pushing way more lows than I would have expected for those cabs.

Anyhow, bouncing around with different basses into the Schroeders, the AE212, and an NV610; what I tentatively found was a little bit surprising. My Fender Jazz (a '62) and the Sadowsky produce noticeably more bass and lower mid push through both the Schroeder stack and the NV610 than through the AE212. Honestly, the AE212 in direct comparison sort of sounds like the bottom fell out all of a sudden. Nice very even sound, but definitely less of whatever low mids are pushing through the band mix.

OTOH, my Bartolini equipped Tobias Signature (a Hollywood bass) and Zon Sonus, which produce way more low end content coming out of their circuits (relatively speaking), sound perfectly balanced into the AE212 with plenty of low mid push. Just killer rigs. Same instruments into the other two cab setups tend to get congested and lose their definition.

So, IMO, there is a yin yang between the various elements in the package that has to be kept in mind. Last comment is that the result with the Schroeders really surprised me, because I did not consider those cabs as having much low end content. FWIW here are two links to the same cover tune. The first has the J (with Sadowsky outboard) going into the AE212. The second is the Sadowsky RV4 into the Schroeders. Same somewhat cheap recording limitations; so not saying anything about audio quality. But, if you listen with phones the difference becomes immediately clear nonetheless. (Warning: you have to actually listen to the bass and stop staring at the two front singers)

AE212
Different Breed Paris - YouTube

Schroeder 2 x 115+L
Different Breed - Fri Nov 11 2011 @Dos Gringos Tempe - "Paris (Ooh La La)" - YouTube

Anyhow, point of all this is that TB has such a wide range of styles and instruments, that it is pretty important when making comments about performance of various pieces of gear to put the experience in context, IMO. OTOH, maybe, I should just go back to one bass, head, and cab, and then not get all off into these kinds of complications. I dunno.

 

[KJung]

Just a little info for y'all with a AE212...
I tried an experiment with my AE 212, yanked the crossover and ran the woofers wide open. I wired up a new plate with a 4 pole speakon with 2+2- going to the tweeter, and ran my GK700RB with it, in biamp mode.

The result; I realized a more open more present upper midrange. I liked it a lot.

What killed the deal is that the bi-amp GK head cross-ed over the tweeter at 5khz, not at 2 or 3khz (where it really needs to be to do it's job Rob, just my opinion) and that's my only beef with the bi-amp feature on the GKRB series heads. Otherwise I think they are great.

Anyway, to my ears, running the 12's wide open seem to extend the upper midrange, and from there on up it seemed to just gently roll off. I did not hear that nasty Neo "spike" around 2khz thereabouts that I had experienced with GK and Mesa Neo cabs.

This modification made the AE212 sound closer to what my old Epifani UL212 sounded like, in the upper midrange. (Less sonic space between the woofer and tweet.)

Anyway, those are my initial results. Since the GK head in bi-amp mode rendered the tweeter too far removed sonically, I reinstalled the stock cross-over.

In the future, I may wire up another plate with the woofers going full range and make up a high pass on the tweet side at 3 khz and see where I go from there. This issue of the upper midrange of the AE212 sounding a little darker than the AE112 was the only one I have had with this cabinet. Matter of fact, the tone of the AE112 inspired me to try it out.

Your results make sense. In a brief conversation I had with Jim after getting my AE212 cab, he said that his design goal with the AE212 was to 'flatten/smooth' the upper mid response (I assume with the specific crossover for that model). That is why I've been calling this 'the AE cab for those who don't like the AE line'. The very aggressive upper mids in the AE112 and AE410 (which are beautiful in their own way) have been removed/flattend/smoothed with the AE212.

Put another way, the AE212 is the closest thing Jim has produced to a 'neo HT'cab.

Amazing box, but it will not grind like the AE410... totally different voicing up top.

Edit: Interestingly, the AE210 sounds more like a 'little AE212 than it does a 'little AE410' It surely doesn't have anywhere near the low end extension, but it does have a much smoother upper mid response than both the AE112 or the AE410.

The AE410 and AE212 pretty much 'cover the waterfront' on bass rig tones for me.... punchy, grindy, punch you in the chest with the AE410, and smooth, fat, deep, relaxed with the AE212.

 

[KJung]

The AE212 is a great reference cab, IMO. VERY even. VERY portable. a Great tool.

That said, I am getting increasingly cautious about making blanket statements about any of this gear thing taking one element at a time. What I am finding is that I get dramatically different results mixing basses, heads and cabs.

For example, several video recordings my band took, in which I was using a Sadowsky RV4 into a GB ShuttleMAX 12 driving two Schroeder 115+L recently, caused me to do a certain amount of a/b testing this past weekend. The Schroeder stack is one I use when I want portability and some volume. Thing was, the bass in the recording was pushing way more lows than I would have expected for those cabs.

Anyhow, bouncing around with different basses into the Schroeders, the AE212, and an NV610; what I tentatively found was a little bit surprising. My Fender Jazz (a '62) and the Sadowsky produce noticeably more bass and lower mid push through both the Schroeder stack and the NV610 than through the AE212. Honestly, the AE212 in direct comparison sort of sounds like the bottom fell out all of a sudden. Nice very even sound, but definitely less of whatever low mids are pushing through the band mix.

OTOH, my Bartolini equipped Tobias Signature (a Hollywood bass) and Zon Sonus, which produce way more low end content coming out of their circuits (relatively speaking), sound perfectly balanced into the AE212 with plenty of low mid push. Just killer rigs. Same instruments into the other two cab setups tend to get congested and lose their definition.

So, IMO, their is a yin yang between the various elements in the package that has to be kept in mind. Last comment is that the result with the Schroeders really surprised me, because I did not consider those cabs as having much low end content. FWIW here are two links to the same cover tune. The first has the J (with Sadowsky outboard) going into the AE212. The second is the Sadowsky RV4 into the Schroeders. Same somewhat cheap recording limitations; so not saying anything about audio quality. But, if you listen with phones the difference becomes immediately clear nonetheless. (Warning: you have to actually listen to the bass and stop staring at the two front singers)

AE212
Different Breed Paris - YouTube

Schroeder 2 x 115+L
Different Breed - Fri Nov 11 2011 @Dos Gringos Tempe - "Paris (Ooh La La)" - YouTube

Anyhow, point of all this is that TB has such a wide range of styles and instruments, that it is pretty important when making comments about performance of various pieces of gear to put the experience in context, IMO. OTOH, maybe, I should just go back to one bass, head, and cab, and then not get all off into these kinds of complications. I dunno.

+1 Bass gear can really only be evaluated in context.... player, instrument, tone goal, head, cab, volume, etc.

It is all about the mix and match IMO!

 

[jnewmark]

The AE212 is a great reference cab, IMO. VERY even. VERY portable. a Great tool.

That said, I am getting increasingly cautious about making blanket statements about any of this gear thing taking one element at a time. What I am finding is that I get dramatically different results mixing basses, heads and cabs.

For example, several video recordings my band took, in which I was using a Sadowsky RV4 into a GB ShuttleMAX 12 driving two Schroeder 115+L recently, caused me to do a certain amount of a/b testing this past weekend. The Schroeder stack is one I use when I want portability and some volume. Thing was, the bass in the recording was pushing way more lows than I would have expected for those cabs.

Anyhow, bouncing around with different basses into the Schroeders, the AE212, and an NV610; what I tentatively found was a little bit surprising. My Fender Jazz (a '62) and the Sadowsky produce noticeably more bass and lower mid push through both the Schroeder stack and the NV610 than through the AE212. Honestly, the AE212 in direct comparison sort of sounds like the bottom fell out all of a sudden. Nice very even sound, but definitely less of whatever low mids are pushing through the band mix.

OTOH, my Bartolini equipped Tobias Signature (a Hollywood bass) and Zon Sonus, which produce way more low end content coming out of their circuits (relatively speaking), sound perfectly balanced into the AE212 with plenty of low mid push. Just killer rigs. Same instruments into the other two cab setups tend to get congested and lose their definition.

So, IMO, there is a yin yang between the various elements in the package that has to be kept in mind. Last comment is that the result with the Schroeders really surprised me, because I did not consider those cabs as having much low end content. FWIW here are two links to the same cover tune. The first has the J (with Sadowsky outboard) going into the AE212. The second is the Sadowsky RV4 into the Schroeders. Same somewhat cheap recording limitations; so not saying anything about audio quality. But, if you listen with phones the difference becomes immediately clear nonetheless. (Warning: you have to actually listen to the bass and stop staring at the two front singers)

AE212
Different Breed Paris - YouTube

Schroeder 2 x 115+L
Different Breed - Fri Nov 11 2011 @Dos Gringos Tempe - "Paris (Ooh La La)" - YouTube

Anyhow, point of all this is that TB has such a wide range of styles and instruments, that it is pretty important when making comments about performance of various pieces of gear to put the experience in context, IMO. OTOH, maybe, I should just go back to one bass, head, and cab, and then not get all off into these kinds of complications. I dunno.

I noticed that the camera angle was different for the Schroeder version; could it be the vid camera/recorder could have been picking up more of your sound as opposed to the AE recording ? I had the 15+ for a little while, but don't recall getting that thick tone you get from it, at least in that recording.

 

[Jerry J]

The AE212 is a great reference cab, IMO. VERY even. VERY portable. a Great tool.

That said, I am getting increasingly cautious about making blanket statements about any of this gear thing taking one element at a time. What I am finding is that I get dramatically different results mixing basses, heads and cabs.

For example, several video recordings my band took, in which I was using a Sadowsky RV4 into a GB ShuttleMAX 12 driving two Schroeder 115+L recently, caused me to do a certain amount of a/b testing this past weekend. The Schroeder stack is one I use when I want portability and some volume. Thing was, the bass in the recording was pushing way more lows than I would have expected for those cabs.

Anyhow, bouncing around with different basses into the Schroeders, the AE212, and an NV610; what I tentatively found was a little bit surprising. My Fender Jazz (a '62) and the Sadowsky produce noticeably more bass and lower mid push through both the Schroeder stack and the NV610 than through the AE212. Honestly, the AE212 in direct comparison sort of sounds like the bottom fell out all of a sudden. Nice very even sound, but definitely less of whatever low mids are pushing through the band mix.

OTOH, my Bartolini equipped Tobias Signature (a Hollywood bass) and Zon Sonus, which produce way more low end content coming out of their circuits (relatively speaking), sound perfectly balanced into the AE212 with plenty of low mid push. Just killer rigs. Same instruments into the other two cab setups tend to get congested and lose their definition.

So, IMO, there is a yin yang between the various elements in the package that has to be kept in mind. Last comment is that the result with the Schroeders really surprised me, because I did not consider those cabs as having much low end content. FWIW here are two links to the same cover tune. The first has the J (with Sadowsky outboard) going into the AE212. The second is the Sadowsky RV4 into the Schroeders. Same somewhat cheap recording limitations; so not saying anything about audio quality. But, if you listen with phones the difference becomes immediately clear nonetheless. (Warning: you have to actually listen to the bass and stop staring at the two front singers)

AE212
Different Breed Paris - YouTube

Schroeder 2 x 115+L
Different Breed - Fri Nov 11 2011 @Dos Gringos Tempe - "Paris (Ooh La La)" - YouTube

Anyhow, point of all this is that TB has such a wide range of styles and instruments, that it is pretty important when making comments about performance of various pieces of gear to put the experience in context, IMO. OTOH, maybe, I should just go back to one bass, head, and cab, and then not get all off into these kinds of complications. I dunno.

Welcome to the world of variables.

A lot of the difference in tonality can be attributed to the room, recording vantage point, etc. When you add amp settings, basses, strings and all the other variables the results can change significantly. So you are 100% correct that blanket statements are what they are.

Nice frontline BTW!

 

[Jerry J]

Edit: Interestingly, the AE210 sounds more like a 'little AE212 than it does a 'little AE410' It surely doesn't have anywhere near the low end extension, but it does have a much smoother upper mid response than both the AE112 or the AE410.

This was a big revelation for me. I've been wanting a mini AE410 and have been assuming all along that the ae210 would fit the bill. Now I'm reading that a pair of AE112s is going be more in that tonal spectrum. Hmmm!

 

[KJung]

This was a big revelation for me. I've been wanting a mini AE410 and have been assuming all along that the ae210 would fit the bill. Now I'm reading that a pair of AE112s is going be more in that tonal spectrum. Hmmm!

The difference is more in the 'brightness' of the cabs up top. I like them all in their own way. For a single small cab solution, I would choose the AE210 over the AE112's... more absolute volume and a smoother midrange voicing.

For a small 2 cab solution, the AE112's are pretty darn nice, and will give you a bit more of the AE410 grind up top IMO and IME, and about 75% of the max volume of the AE410.

 

[Doug Parent]

"Edit: Interestingly, the AE210 sounds more like a 'little AE212 than it does a 'little AE410' It surely doesn't have anywhere near the low end extension, but it does have a much smoother upper mid response than both the AE112 or the AE410."

Right on Ken. Spoke with Jim also, he uses a different cross-over point on the AE212/VERTICAL AE210 than he does with the HORIZONTAL AE210, and AE410 and also AE112.

The latter having a higher cross-over point. I hope Jim does not mind my saying this on a public forum, he did inform the guys at Bass San Diego of the same, so it is info that is out there now.

 

[KJung]

"Edit: Interestingly, the AE210 sounds more like a 'little AE212 than it does a 'little AE410' It surely doesn't have anywhere near the low end extension, but it does have a much smoother upper mid response than both the AE112 or the AE410."

Right on Ken. Spoke with Jim also, he uses a different cross-over point on the AE212/VERTICAL AE210 than he does with the HORIZONTAL AE210, and AE410 and also AE112.

The latter having a higher cross-over point. I hope Jim does not mind my saying this on a public forum, he did inform the guys at Bass San Diego of the same, so it is info that is out there now.

Ah... interesting with the vertical AE210 that I have, since I was suprised at how much that cab did NOT sound like the AE410. Cool! I LOVE my little AE210, and the form factor is just great!

 

[Jerry J]

"Edit: Interestingly, the AE210 sounds more like a 'little AE212 than it does a 'little AE410' It surely doesn't have anywhere near the low end extension, but it does have a much smoother upper mid response than both the AE112 or the AE410."

Right on Ken. Spoke with Jim also, he uses a different cross-over point on the AE212/VERTICAL AE210 than he does with the HORIZONTAL AE210, and AE410 and also AE112.

The latter having a higher cross-over point. I hope Jim does not mind my saying this on a public forum, he did inform the guys at Bass San Diego of the same, so it is info that is out there now.

Wait a minute....so this means that the older horizontal AE210 is going to sound more like the AE112/AE410, with that mid grind? THAT is one of the big reasons I so love my AE410.

My d'rathers would be a one cabinet solution. Beside the fact that it would be less expensive than buying a pair of single 12s.

 

[Doug Parent]

Yes Jerry. I had the vertical AE210 for a week and exchanged it for a Epifani UL 501 turns out I needed the head more than I needed the cab. Great cab even though I thought it was a little dark up top. (btw, the 501 is INSANE)

I'm either going to sell my (2) AE112's or my AE212 since I just got an AE410 for louder gigs. Probably grab another AE210 if someone wants to unload one.....or maybe work a trade deal.....

 

[Vic]

Wait a minute....so this means that the older horizontal AE210 is going to sound more like the AE112/AE410, with that mid grind? THAT is one of the big reasons I so love my AE410.

I have a pair of the older AE210's and while I don't have enough A/B test time under my belt to compare them to an AE410, my understanding from others is it's pretty close, and at least in absolute terms, they definitely have plenty of mid grind and focus. They're my favorite cabs to use if I think I'm going into a place where boom/gloom will be a problem. They're the tightest most focused cabs I have.

 

[KJung]

Wait a minute....so this means that the older horizontal AE210 is going to sound more like the AE112/AE410, with that mid grind? THAT is one of the big reasons I so love my AE410.

My d'rathers would be a one cabinet solution. Beside the fact that it would be less expensive than buying a pair of single 12s.

You will probably have a much easier time finding the original horizontal AE210 used also, since the vertical model (that literally looks like a shrunken AE212... kind of funny with them next to one another!) was only put in production for a very short time prior to Jim getting out of the neo category.