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Bergantino AE212; Part 2!!

#581
BartmanPDX said:
Link Removed

This is a clip of my band playing this past Saturday night. I love the form factor of the AE212; it's easy to carry and it fits under a trash bag in the event of rain at an outdoor show. The sound guy had a 421 so I just miked the cab, and it sounded great! I was playing my M9 through it and observed that the 212 seems to really come into its own at higher volumes. Typically we're playing smaller bars and clubs and I can't really open it up too much.

FWIW, I have the tweeter or both my AE410 and AE212 rolled down to about 9-10 o'clock.
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For some reason I can't get it to play.:hmm:

I would have like to have heard that particular pairing.

And YES! The singer is a hottie!:hiding:
 
#583
bucephylus said:
Jim's tweets are very good; but, IMO, the way to use the tweet in the 212 is to start with it off and then lift it bit by bit until you get what you want. The 12's are just amazing by themselves in that box. The tweet is just icing on the cake. Kind of reminds me of the Sadowsky tone controls in that a little goes a long way. I think mine is set at about 9 o'clock; and that is even a little more than I want sometimes. Really great cab.
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Oh yeah- I KNOW this. GREAT cab & nice tweeter! I have used the tweeter off, 8,9,10 12 2 o'clock etc... Just tempted to actually HEAR the WHOLE freq spectrum of those 12"s without a X-over interfering.
I MIGHT do it at some stage, but I'm real happy with how the AE212 sounds ;)
 
#584
BartmanPDX said:
Link Removed

This is a clip of my band playing this past Saturday night. I love the form factor of the AE212; it's easy to carry and it fits under a trash bag in the event of rain at an outdoor show. The sound guy had a 421 so I just miked the cab, and it sounded great! I was playing my M9 through it and observed that the 212 seems to really come into its own at higher volumes. Typically we're playing smaller bars and clubs and I can't really open it up too much.

FWIW, I have the tweeter or both my AE410 and AE212 rolled down to about 9-10 o'clock.
Click to expand...

Sounds awesome, Bart! Nice playing! :bassist: :bassist: :bassist: :cool:
 
#587
rodl2005 said:
Oh yeah- I KNOW this. GREAT cab & nice tweeter! I have used the tweeter off, 8,9,10 12 2 o'clock etc... Just tempted to actually HEAR the WHOLE freq spectrum of those 12"s without a X-over interfering.
I MIGHT do it at some stage, but I'm real happy with how the AE212 sounds ;)
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Ahh I get your point. For some reason, I did not think that the crossover network was removing the highs from the 12's. I thought that crossover was just passing highs to the tweeter. Could be wrong.
 
#591
Doug Parent said:
Nope, it's a two way cross-over.
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Are the Bergantino crossover topologies posted somewhere? I'm not familiar with that level of detail on these boxes.

If I had my druthers, adjusting the tweeter attenuator down would allow those frequencies to go to the big drivers (which of course would not reproduce them at as high a level). I would have personally sent full range to the big drivers and sent the signal through the high pass to the tweeter. If Jim is sending low pass to the big drivers, I'm sure he had a reason to do that, I'm just not familiar with the design reasoning.

The box works great as is, but I can now see the question as to how the 12's would respond to full range.
 
#592
Spoke with Jim on this particular topic, he was responding to requests to get a smoother top end on those neo woofers (which have a big 2khz spike) so the crossover point is designed lower on that cabinet than the AE112. I can't tell you specifics and thats Jim's proprietary info, but I guessed all this this and he confirmed it without any other details. My GUESS is that he designed the crossover in that cabinet to roll the highs off more gradually to the 12's as it approached the crossover point. I think I'm going to yank it at some point and see for myself.

Anyway, those neo 12's will really clutter up the high mids and clash with that tweeter if you run them full range, just a guess but go ahead and try it and report back :)
 
#593
Doug Parent said:
Spoke with Jim on this particular topic, he was responding to requests to get a smoother top end on those neo woofers (which have a big 2khz spike) so the crossover point is designed lower on that cabinet than the AE112. I can't tell you specifics and thats Jim's proprietary info, but I guessed all this this and he confirmed it without any other details. My GUESS is that he designed the crossover in that cabinet to roll the highs off more gradually to the 12's as it approached the crossover point. I think I'm going to yank it at some point and see for myself.

Anyway, those neo 12's will really clutter up the high mids and clash with that tweeter if you run them full range, just a guess but go ahead and try it and report back :)
Click to expand...

Actually this is really interesting. Hmmm!
 
#595
Did three different cover gigs this weekend (starting to feel like a song thesaurus); and the last night was with a Rock band playing everything from Seger to Velvet revolver. For this particular gig, I took my 9.2 pound Sadowsky RV4 w/Drop tuner, Shuttle 9, and Berg AE212.

I must say, this instrument chain is just about perfect for the Rock gigs. Only problem I had was that the Sadowsky output was a little too hot for the board, even with DI set Pre/Mic level. So, I had to play with the bass volume set at about 50% to avoid input distortion at the fader. Otherwise, this instrument chain is flawless. Pure bass tone just doing its thing perfectly in the mix.

Great cab! A win by JB.
 
#596
Most boards can pad down the input as low as necessary to get a clean signal. Were you cranking your preamp on the Sad? Was the overdrive red light flashing on the Shuttle? I work as a FOH mixer and this does not make sense.
 
#597
Doug Parent said:
Most boards can pad down the input as low as necessary to get a clean signal. Were you cranking your preamp on the Sad? Was the overdrive red light flashing on the Shuttle? I work as a FOH mixer and this does not make sense.
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I typically run the Sad with the volume at about 7 to leave some headroom, and set the Shuttle inputs gain and pre output levels at abut noon. With these settings, the input lights on the Shuttle only light up on infrequent peak transients. Not sure why the input Shuttle setting would matter, since setting the DI for pre/mic simply outputs exactly what the bass is putting into the Shuttle, with a slight pad to take it down to mic level.

And I did check with the sound guy as to whether the input had a 15 dB or 20 dB input pad. It did not have one. Maybe they just don't have a great board; but, I don't have much influence on that.

Anyhow, running the Sad volume at 50% made everyone happy. I just cranked the S9 input Gain to compensate.
 
#598
bucephylus said:
Not sure why the input Shuttle setting would matter, since setting the DI for pre/mic simply outputs exactly what the bass is putting into the Shuttle, with a slight pad to take it down to mic level.
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The input gain level is still active, the DI pre/post switch is for the eq section only. Personally I run my volume pot wide open on my basses to avoid my tone being changed by the pot's influence, and use the volume control (next to the gain control) on the shuttle to set my gain structure with the master volume set at noon. That way if I need more stage volume I use the master so as to avoid changing my level to the board.
 
#599
Doug Parent said:
The input gain level is still active, the DI pre/post switch is for the eq section only. Personally I run my volume pot wide open on my basses to avoid my tone being changed by the pot's influence, and use the volume control (next to the gain control) on the shuttle to set my gain structure with the master volume set at noon. That way if I need more stage volume I use the master so as to avoid changing my level to the board.
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Doug, I do not believe the input volume pot on the S9 changes the level of the DI output in Pre mode.

Edit: Further, if you refer to the schematic in the owners manual, the Tube Gain pot is clearly downstream of the Pre/Post switch and is out of the DI loop when Pre is engaged.
 

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