Yes, I use one of those for my AE212's and it works great except for stairs. Costco also has (or used to have) a dolly that fits the AE212 perfectly with good quality casters.
Enjoy the benefits of a premium membership!
Upgrade Account
-
TalkBass has been independent since 1998. Add your voice.
Create a free account to reply to discussions, view embedded media, and browse with fewer display ads.
Join free Log in
Want zero display ads or expanded classifieds tools? Compare plans.
Bergantino AE212; Part 2!!
- Thread starter Chef
- Start date
Yes, I use one of those for my AE212's and it works great except for stairs. Costco also has (or used to have) a dolly that fits the AE212 perfectly with good quality casters.
YEah My 'dolly' (we call 'em trolleys - dolly's were things GIRLS played with 
Is PRETTY good, but would be better with an elastic strap.
Is PRETTY good, but would be better with an elastic strap.
Thanks Doug. I see those whenever we go shopping there.
Thing is I otherwise kind of like the KaB after all these years.
Over here, we call them hand trucks. Trolleys are things that tourists ride on.YEah My 'dolly' (we call 'em trolleys - dolly's were things GIRLS played with
Is PRETTY good, but would be better with an elastic strap.
I actually gave tourist a ride on my 'dolly/trolley' HANDTRUCK one nite after a gig. No matter HOW many times I told this girl, it'd be a BAD IDEA, that they're designed for straight sided objects NOT HUMANS.... She wouldn't be talked outta it.
So, being the gentleman I am, I took her for a short 'ride' along the sidewalk. "great" she exclaimed- "turn around & back up again" "No I ..." says I.
Agin No telling a pretty far gone girrrl late at night.
As soon as we turn.... SPLAT!!! She hits the deck, HARD. Luckily she was drunk & didn't 'hurt' herself!
So there's a lesson.
So, being the gentleman I am, I took her for a short 'ride' along the sidewalk. "great" she exclaimed- "turn around & back up again" "No I ..." says I.
Agin No telling a pretty far gone girrrl late at night.
As soon as we turn.... SPLAT!!! She hits the deck, HARD. Luckily she was drunk & didn't 'hurt' herself!
So there's a lesson.
The 410XL? 88 pounds. I've been lugging two of them since 1988, along with 47 pounds of Trace Elliot rack mount. (No trolleys, hand trucks, casters...or dollies.)
How is this germane to the AE212? Well, since I just awoke like Rip van Winkle (the literary figure, not the TB'er) from a 19-year GAS-free "just playing infrequently with friends" hiatus, I'm hoping to update my rig, which is failing (EQ's dead, amp's really gotten noisy, speaker jacks have broken free from the amp housing, and...did I mention the weight?). Unfortunately, I've got lots to catch up on and, given the recent neodymium developments, less time than I'd like. For instance, I was shocked to discover that Ampeg, SWR, and Trace aren't what I remember them to be, the ubiquitous 4x10 standard design is actually less desirable due to phase issues, non-10" speakers can be tight and punchy, and lightweight amps can sound good...next thing I'll hear is that smoking causes lung disease and the US has invaded Iraq! (It was a deep sleep.)
Having read hundreds of posts by Bartman, Munji, KJung, Tom Bowlus, et. al, not to mention numerous blogs and publications, it's looking like the 21st Century version of my current stack would be two AE410s--punchy, somewhat aggressive midrange--driven by a clean, flexible amp that can cover everything from small cabs to a stack (like the SM 12.0)--my Trace is 250W x 2 @ 4 Ohms, and several have said that the GB should be realistically rated as 300W x 2. Yes, an M9 would be the direct analog for punch with a graphic EQ, and it's a great sounding head, but "ears bleed at 9:00 on the master" is a lower priority at this time. Add in a little cab with a decent range and balance for practice and small/ABG "gigs" and I should be able to cover any of my eventualities.
So, to tie this incessant rambling together:
1. 2 x modern day 410 - Bringing megatons to a knife fight? Is even 410 + 210 overkill for most scenarios with the higher sensitivity, max excursion, and thermal ratings I see today? Noisy bars and frat parties probably aren't on my list any more, but something outdoors could happen. Not expecting a PA in any venue that would allow me to play.
2. 410 vs. 212 - Am I correct in my reading that the latter is perfectly fine volume-wise for most applications, at slightly lighter weight and better balance/flexibility (VroomVroom)? And let's not forget that dreaded phase issue with the former...billfitzmaurice would have my head! And Chef does have that nasty chuffing problem...
3. BACK ON TOPIC--I picked up a used HT112ER when it appeared locally. Would another HT/EX get me reasonably close to an AE212 using EQ while still allowing for a decently balanced and flexible non-neo alternative to the AE line? I know it would get me to 2,000% of my 100 Watt, 2x8, SS Ampeg practice amp (SVT-100T). A second 112ER is cheaper, takes up less space, and keeps my sonic palette a bit more broad.
4. If I went with a single AE410, could the 12s be pushed into simultaneous service if absolutely necessary? Bad idea generally, but would cost/benefit ever allow for this?
5. Would anyone buy a pair of "vintage" Guild/Hartkes? Rat fur lovingly brushed, of course. I suppose I could pair them up opposite an AE410 and violate ten rules about good sound. 12x10!!!
Anyway, thanks for your input and patience.
AM
Quick question on the AE212..
I have an AE112 and AE212 and are running them both with a Shuttle 9.0.
Im interested, as a lot of players here seem to prefer the Markbass F1/F500 with this set up, in the difference in the Shuttle and Markbass?
I dont have access to an F1 or F500 to A&B the set ups so would be interested in the difference.
I tried an F1 a while ago and seemed to remember it sounded a lot like what I hear in the Shuttle at the moment.
My question would be - is it worth thinking about getting a F1/F500 or staying with the Shuttle?
I have an AE112 and AE212 and are running them both with a Shuttle 9.0.
Im interested, as a lot of players here seem to prefer the Markbass F1/F500 with this set up, in the difference in the Shuttle and Markbass?
I dont have access to an F1 or F500 to A&B the set ups so would be interested in the difference.
I tried an F1 a while ago and seemed to remember it sounded a lot like what I hear in the Shuttle at the moment.
My question would be - is it worth thinking about getting a F1/F500 or staying with the Shuttle?
Doug Parent
Supporting Member
Whoa. First of all the Shuttle is rated at 4 ohms minimum, so unplug that AE112 before the Shuttle gets too hot. The AE212 is four ohms, so your done adding more speakers unless you like shipping fried Shuttles in for repair.
The F1 is super quick and a solid state head, so it's super punchy and can be a little edgy in the upper treble department compared to the Shuttle 9.0 which is much smoother and more round and warm sounding.
They both work great, just different flavors. I have both heads and the Shuttle gets the nod these days over the F1, only because I've been using that for quite some time now and I enjoy the change the Shuttle provides.
Probably been zero help to you, except now you know you are courting trouble running your Shuttle at 2.67 ohms unless you aren't running both at the same time. In that case I will channel Gilda Radner and say "never mind".
Lol - sorry, should have explained I DONT run the cabs together ( rereading my thread I can see how that could be misconstrude ).. I use the AE112 as a min-rig only.
Doug Parent
Supporting Member
AE112 + Shuttle 9.0 = Juicy goodness. (my two cents, skip the F1 unless the Shuttle isn't making you happy regardless. If you are digging the tone and smiling like the village idiot, rock on man) 
AmazingMumford said:The 410XL? 88 pounds. I've been lugging two of them since 1988, along with 47 pounds of Trace Elliot rack mount. (No trolleys, hand trucks, casters...or dollies.)
How is this germane to the AE212? Well, since I just awoke like Rip van Winkle (the literary figure, not the TB'er) from a 19-year GAS-free "just playing infrequently with friends" hiatus, I'm hoping to update my rig, which is failing (EQ's dead, amp's really gotten noisy, speaker jacks have broken free from the amp housing, and...did I mention the weight?). Unfortunately, I've got lots to catch up on and, given the recent neodymium developments, less time than I'd like. For instance, I was shocked to discover that Ampeg, SWR, and Trace aren't what I remember them to be, the ubiquitous 4x10 standard design is actually less desirable due to phase issues, non-10" speakers can be tight and punchy, and lightweight amps can sound good...next thing I'll hear is that smoking causes lung disease and the US has invaded Iraq! (It was a deep sleep.)
Having read hundreds of posts by Bartman, Munji, KJung, Tom Bowlus, et. al, not to mention numerous blogs and publications, it's looking like the 21st Century version of my current stack would be two AE410s--punchy, somewhat aggressive midrange--driven by a clean, flexible amp that can cover everything from small cabs to a stack (like the SM 12.0)--my Trace is 250W x 2 @ 4 Ohms, and several have said that the GB should be realistically rated as 300W x 2. Yes, an M9 would be the direct analog for punch with a graphic EQ, and it's a great sounding head, but "ears bleed at 9:00 on the master" is a lower priority at this time. Add in a little cab with a decent range and balance for practice and small/ABG "gigs" and I should be able to cover any of my eventualities.
So, to tie this incessant rambling together:
1. 2 x modern day 410 - Bringing megatons to a knife fight? Is even 410 + 210 overkill for most scenarios with the higher sensitivity, max excursion, and thermal ratings I see today? Noisy bars and frat parties probably aren't on my list any more, but something outdoors could happen. Not expecting a PA in any venue that would allow me to play.
2. 410 vs. 212 - Am I correct in my reading that the latter is perfectly fine volume-wise for most applications, at slightly lighter weight and better balance/flexibility (VroomVroom)? And let's not forget that dreaded phase issue with the former...billfitzmaurice would have my head! And Chef does have that nasty chuffing problem...
3. BACK ON TOPIC--I picked up a used HT112ER when it appeared locally. Would another HT/EX get me reasonably close to an AE212 using EQ while still allowing for a decently balanced and flexible non-neo alternative to the AE line? I know it would get me to 2,000% of my 100 Watt, 2x8, SS Ampeg practice amp (SVT-100T). A second 112ER is cheaper, takes up less space, and keeps my sonic palette a bit more broad.
4. If I went with a single AE410, could the 12s be pushed into simultaneous service if absolutely necessary? Bad idea generally, but would cost/benefit ever allow for this?
5. Would anyone buy a pair of "vintage" Guild/Hartkes? Rat fur lovingly brushed, of course. I suppose I could pair them up opposite an AE410 and violate ten rules about good sound. 12x10!!!
Anyway, thanks for your input and patience.
AM
I'll take a stab at it. You've clearly done some reading and put some thought into this. An M9 might be overkill, but a used M6 might be just the ticket. Or go all-out on the lightweight thing and get a shuttle 9.
I have briefly tried two AE410s at once at a GTG. Local TBer and good friend Jerry J also has one and had brought his big Aggie with him, so we hooked them both up. It really seemed a little excessive for most stages, IMO. As great as it looked, it was just crazy powerful. No need for that kind of stage volume in most places, IMO. I play loud classic rock, generally don't get PA support except at the biggest gigs, and never feel like I'm pushing the 410. The same thing applies to the 212. It is very nearly as loud as the 410 and has a huge low end. I've got probably 200 gigs on my 410 with no issues. Mostly bar gigs and such but some big stages.
I haven't found the phase thing to be an issue.
Nothing wrong with the HT 112s. Great cabs and a pair of them driven by a good amp will get plenty loud. It does allow you to do the modular thing (ie bring only one cab to practices or small gigs), but quite frankly the AE cabs are so easy to move (especially the 212!) that it doesn't seem like a hassle to load in/out. You might find it more taxing to move two of the HTs than just one of the AE cabs.
With regards to #4: At some point I will break down and hook up both AE cabs to my Mesa M9 and run it at 2 ohms just for the heck of it. I'm sure it will be insanely loud but fun. Why not? But I don't expect to realistically NEED that kind of power on any of my gigs. YMMV. At our biggest gigs we generally get PA support so it's not that big of a deal.
BTW, I got my Hartke in the late 80s. It was fantastic at the time, but times have changed. Carted it around until ~ 2006. Don't miss it.
I wouldn't trade my AE410 for any other cab on the market. The combination of portability, volume, and tone is fantastic.
Jerry J said:Bart, it might be fun to pair up a couple of ae212s also.
You bet.
Just for kicks, here's a pic of My Three Bergs:
Definitely agree on the M6/M9--it's on the "wait a year and see where you are" list. A ShuttleMAX 12.0 is now in transit (thanks to JEBMD). Tonal flexibility was key, I have no problem with numerous dials and options, and the frequent description of it on TB as being punchy while offering the option of some warmth convinced me. The light weight was just gravy. BTW, given my amp prefs, I note your rig photo with the M9 and Shuttle on Berg cabs with some amusement...did I mention that my mom's from Astoria and I have many cousins in Vancouver, WA?
Exactly what I thought. Max SPL somewhere around 130 for a single cab? Ouch! Just confirming the obvious...but, ya gotta understand, old 2 x 410 habits die hard.
I didn't either in eight years of regular gigging, but several "a vertical array is better" threads made me question whether I really knew how I sounded out in the crowd. A 2 x 210 setup stacked "sideways" probably is better at sending consistent sound throughout the room (won't argue with the science), but I prefer the one-cab simplicity, stability, and look.
I have no problem with moving two 43-pound cabs (one in each hand), so I guess my sole remaining question is: are the HT112ERs sufficiently different soundwise from the AE line to warrant getting a second one for a contrast with the AE410, or would an AE212 be the more convenient (but expensive) solution? I've read that the HTs are a bit more balanced, vintage, and full on the low end, but I don't know if that difference is material.
You had me at your answer to my question #1. If one 410 is enough, then I don't need to worry about throwing any 12s on top. They would just have been the cheap alternative to a second 410.
That's all the convincing I need...a single AE410 will be mine. Oh, yes...it will.
Thanks for all the advice! (And to everyone else for their bandwidth tolerance.)
AmazingMumford said:
First off, let me refine what I was saying about the 410 phase cancellation. I've heard the effects in my home theater (center channel sideways) and while it definitely exists, it's a minor consideration for me. I had at one point considered getting a stack of two of the vertical 210s for just that reason, but decided against it. Here's why:
Let me be brutally honest here about my situation: I play in a cover rock band, mostly in small bars, with PA being vocals only. As local cover bands go we're pretty good, but at most of my gigs, the only person in the room who cares about my tone is me. Most of the audience couldn't tell the difference between a P or a J bass and could care less. The big issue is keeping the balance within the band, so that I don't dominate things (easy to do with the M9). A vertical stack of 210s might sound slightly better in the audience, but I prefer having that big 410 up on its stand at chest height. Even at the low volume I'm often forced to play at, it has a visceral thump where I'm standing in addition to all the aggressive midrange. It gives you that big cab feel.
It also sounds fine in the audience. On slower nights I'll go out on the dance floor and dance with the singer (hot chick!) during a song while I'm playing and see how it sounds out there. It's quite different! But I like it.
I wish I could help more on the HT112ER vs. AE212 thing. It's been years since I listened to that 112, and I don't feel I can comment on it much more than saying that I thought a pair of them could easily cover any gig I did. But that was at the point where I'd blown out my back and was more focused on the AE cabs. I fell in love with the 410 (the 212 wasn't announced until much later).
The main tonal diff between the AE series and the HT112ER/EX112ER will be the midrange.
The AE's mids will be more prominent (AE212 a bit less so than the AE410 and AE112) and the HT(EX)...ER's mids will be really smooth and a bit more laid-back (especially the upper mids).
This is definitely the case - I have both and the HT is definitely fatter down low, even if running the tweeter up.
I run a LM800 and Nordy VJ5 fairly flat and have the same settings for both cabs. IN the heavy rock band I play in I used the HT112ER with a HS210 and it sounds deep and low. The AE212 which got used the first time the other night at rehearsal seemed to cut more into the mid spectrum so there is more definition. Having said that playing at church I used the HT and was told that the bass was the most definitive sound in the school hall we use.
But saying that it is a subjective experience and I do love all my Bergs.
I've heard Bart and his band quite a few times over the past few years and I've never noticed any phase cancellation from your rig.
In fact the only time from memory that I have really noticed any cancellation was when Eric was playing my DB750 through his NV610. About 20-30' out it was like the bass frequencies had completely disappeared. Of course anywhere else in the place it sounded just glorious.
