Bergantino HS410

[Mr_Dave]

Anymore thoughts on the new HS410?

I'm looking for a new standalone 410 to go with my Thunderfunk. I use a passive fender jazz rosewood/alder and a sadowsky RV4 at the moment. I do all sorts of gigs - jazz trio, bigband, original pop/rock, and a lot of soul/funk covers gigs. Often the gigs have no PA support.

As a reference for tone, I've posted these clips of will lee on youtube - i like this tone, especially the slap sound, but often i'd have the tone control rolled off more for a more jerry jemmott finger style tone.



I've been very interested in the epifani ul410 for a long time but i thinking perhaps the new Bergantino might line up better - a clear punchy fingerstyle sound with the tweeter to add some sizzle when needed and crispness to slap?

Any thoughts would be appreciated as i wont be able to hear these cabs very easily (fly interestate ) and it's very unlikely i'll ever be able to AB them

cheers, Dave

 

[KJung]

Great clip and great bass tone! That is a tone I very much try to emulate and feel I have good success with the Epi410UL. I have yet to try the new Series II 410UL (I have one on order), but from what I heard from others, it is a little more punchy in the low mids, which for that sound is a good thing. And, the new model is still an amazing 57 pounds, and comes in a 4ohm version, which is great if you are using a SS mono head like the Thunderfunk.

I guess the new HS410 has just started shipping, so not a lot of info on that. However, from my limited experience with the original Sadowsky410, and the fact that the HS410 is similar to that cabs design, with, from what I understand, more low end extension, it sounds like that cab will get you to that tone also. It is available only in 4ohm version, and the 85 pounds puts it out of my personal consideration set. However, I have a feeling I would like it, since it is quite a different design from the previous large Berg cabs (e.g., the HT322, etc.), which use the high x max speakers and a very large horn (i.e., they are very hi fi, crisp and deep). The HS410 seems more similar to a traditional 410 design (like the 410UL), with more full range drivers that result in some nice upper mids coming from the cone, and then a small tweeter crossed over quite high for sizzle. To me, that is key for the particular tone you are trying to achieve... a little more grunty and growly.

So, I would think either would be great, and the price of both is pretty similar. Both have similar SPL according to the posted spec, so the 550 watts of the TF will be plenty loud. It seems like your weight sensitivity would be the driving factor in making the choice.

Both are great companies... Epifani service is good, Bergantino service is excellent.

Edit: I should also note that the thinner design of the Berg 410 (it's about 3" thinner than the 410UL) makes it relatively easy to schlep for a full weight cab.

 

[Mr_Dave]

thanks for you comments ken.

i'm very interested in how you find the ul410 seriesII compares to the series I. I have tried a series I before in a shop and did like it but i wasn't so sure about the bold upper mids. They worked very well with the ash/maple basses but i felt not so well with the more naturally 'honky' rosewood/alder passive jazz bass.

i have been reading as many relevant threads i can find in the search as i can and it seems that the updated series II may be more what i'm looking for.

i guess that if i'm moving either way from the tone in the clip it will be more old school than new school which is why the berg appeals. also the shallower depth is better for me because the cab will have to go in the back seat of my car. however because, (i think like you) i'm basically always moving my own gear so the weight of the Epifani is a big plus.

I may be able to try the Epifani without ordering one as my local favourite bass shop is getting some Epi gear in stock but its not a certainty... I can order the Berg on a trial but i have to pay shipping etc if i return it... Hopefully people will have some more experiences they can share too.


thanks

 

[KJung]

thanks for you comments ken.

i'm very interested in how you find the ul410 seriesII compares to the series I. I have tried a series I before in a shop and did like it but i wasn't so sure about the bold upper mids. They worked very well with the ash/maple basses but i felt not so well with the more naturally 'honky' rosewood/alder passive jazz bass
i have been reading as many relevant threads i can find in the search as i can and it seems that the updated series II may be more what i'm looking for.

i guess that if i'm moving either way from the tone in the clip it will be more old school than new school which is why the berg appeals. also the shallower depth is better for me because the cab will have to go in the back seat of my car. however because, (i think like you) i'm basically always moving my own gear so the weight of the Epifani is a big plus.

I may be able to try the Epifani without ordering one as my local favourite bass shop is getting some Epi gear in stock but its not a certainty... I can order the Berg on a trial but i have to pay shipping etc if i return it... Hopefully people will have some more experiences they can share too.


thanks

+1 on all of the above.

If you have a car and not a van or SUV, the 410UL will be a problem. The Berg is skinny enough to easily make the turn into a backseat, so that's something to think about. If you don't need huge volume, the 310UL might be an option... no problem with the backseat, and while it doesn't put out the big 410 type volume, it's a pretty darn loud cab, and sounds nice with the TF.

Another option is the new version of the Schroeder 410L. It's thin like the Berg, so it fits in the backseat nicely, and is only about 65 pounds or so. It is a little more 'rock' voiced... more similar to the discontinued Sadowsky410 to my ear... more low mid punch and less upper mid articulation. I ended up not digging it as much as the 410UL, since I really like that 'Jazz Bass' grit and grind to come through my rig (similar to Will's tone in your clip), but it might be worth a listen if you can find one.... it's light weight combined with small footprint makes it the best 'size/weight/volume' ratio on the market IMO.

It will be a few weeks at least before the 410UL Series II arrives, but feel free to PM me in a while if you are still considering the Epi.

K

 

[Christian Houmann]

Oh man. Will Lee is so cool!

I'm also looking for a more concert cab and I think I will go with Epifani 4x10UL S2. I'm sure the bergantino is a great cab but the weight.. Remember when I use to bring my EBS 4x10 cab along. Very cool cab but I hated it to carry it alone. I play a few gigs a week ago where I used a Eden Metro combo (2x10) Damn.. It was heavy! I'm not small guy but I just don't like to carry heavy cabs

-Christian

Ps. Have never tried Bergantino and the only reason I don't have the gas for bergantino is the weight.. Can't say anything about the different between those two cabs!

 

[Mr_Dave]

Oh man. Will Lee is so cool!

I'm also looking for a more concert cab and I think I will go with Epifani 4x10UL S2. I'm sure the bergantino is a great cab but the weight.. Remember when I use to bring my EBS 4x10 cab along. Very cool cab but I hated it to carry it alone. I play a few gigs a week ago where I used a Eden Metro combo (2x10) Damn.. It was heavy! I'm not small guy but I just don't like to carry heavy cabs

-Christian

Ps. Have never tried Bergantino and the only reason I don't have the gas for bergantino is the weight.. Can't say anything about the different between those two cabs!

hi christian,

i thought for some reason you'd had a ul410 at some point before?

 

[Christian Houmann]

hi christian,

i thought for some reason you'd had a ul410 at some point before?

Nope.. But will soon. Have two 1x12UL's and have had a 2x10UL's (4 ohm) And played the 3x10UL a few times. Great cabs. They are just so easy overall. Sound, weight and looks

-Christian

 

[Fuzzbass]

I haven't yet heard the HS410, but I own the Sadowsky SA410 and Epifani UL410 (series 1). Of the latter two, I greatly prefer the Sadowsky. The SA410 won't go as loud or as deep as the UL410, but the SA is much more even across the spectrum, whereas the UL seems to have bumps in the lows and high mids, and a cut in the low mids. To me, the UL410 sounds great at home (especially with a J-bass), but at the gig the big lows and low mid scoop result in blurry tone... that is, a lack of note definition. I have to cut lows and tweak mids to correct this. Also, the UL410 doesn't seem to like gritty rock tones. With the SA410 I get what I want immediately, and it sounds fine both clean and dirty.

I'm not cutting (no pun intended) on the UL410... it does what it does very well. I agree with Ken that it should do the Will Lee tone very well, because Sadowsky basses tend to be low-mid shy (by design).

The SA410 has low excursion speakers because it was designed specifically for the Sadowsky SA200 all-tube amp... that's why it has less volume than the UL. The Bergantino HS410 has high-excursion speakers. According to Jim B., it won't have greater low-end extension than the SA410 (it's in the same box, after all), but will *appear* to have greater lows because it'll be significantly louder.

If given the choice, I'd go with HS410 over UL410 and just deal with the extra weight (and the HS does have nicer casters than the UL...) Another option I'm considering is a pair of HS210 cabs... a buddy of mine is acquiring this rig and I'm dying to check it out. But both the HS and UL are fine cabs, it's not like you'd be suffering if you picked the one that wasn't best for your ears.

 

[KJung]

I haven't yet heard the HS410, but I own the Sadowsky SA410 and Epifani UL410 (series 1). Of the latter two, I greatly prefer the Sadowsky. The SA410 won't go as loud or as deep as the UL410, but the SA is much more even across the spectrum, whereas the UL seems to have bumps in the lows and high mids, and a cut in the low mids. To me, the UL410 sounds great at home (especially with a J-bass), but at the gig the big lows and low mid scoop result in blurry tone... that is, a lack of note definition. I have to cut lows and tweak mids to correct this. Also, the UL410 doesn't seem to like gritty rock tones. With the SA410 I get what I want immediately, and it sounds fine both clean and dirty.

I'm not cutting (no pun intended) on the UL410... it does what it does very well. I agree with Ken that it should do the Will Lee tone very well, because Sadowsky basses tend to be low-mid shy (by design).

The SA410 has low excursion speakers because it was designed specifically for the Sadowsky SA200 all-tube amp... that's why it has less volume than the UL. The Bergantino HS410 has high-excursion speakers. According to Jim B., it won't have greater low-end extension than the SA410 (it's in the same box, after all), but will *appear* to have greater lows because it'll be significantly louder.

If given the choice, I'd go with HS410 over UL410 and just deal with the extra weight (and the HS does have nicer casters than the UL...) Another option I'm considering is a pair of HS210 cabs... a buddy of mine is acquiring this rig and I'm dying to check it out. But both the HS and UL are fine cabs, it's not like you'd be suffering if you picked the one that wasn't best for your ears.

Hey there!

It's interesting to note that the described voicing of the HS410 moves that cab closer to my tone preference, and the description of the new Series II 410UL moves that cab closer to what you describe in your tone preference. I'd be interested on your take on the revised version of the 410UL.

I bet the HS210 stack would be great. While I like my 's' stack quite a bit for some situations, that extremely wide, deep voicing with the upper mids coming out of that big horn can sound a little sterile (but beautifully clean and crisp). The HS210 would seem to be more punchy and growly if I had to guess. I really didn't like the SA210... way too compressed sounding for me. However, the HS210 sounds like it might take the best from both of the previous small Berg 210's... a slightly larger box and different drivers for a somewhat deeper tone, but more fullrange drivers and a smaller tweeter (I assume crossed over higher) for a more traditional, tighter punchier 210 tone than the 's' version. I hope I get to check one of these out sometime!

 

[Fuzzbass]

Hey there!

It's interesting to note that the described voicing of the HS410 moves that cab closer to my tone preference, and the description of the new Series II 410UL moves that cab closer to what you describe in your tone preference. I'd be interested on your take on the revised version of the 410UL.

Hey Ken, I am definitely curious about the differences between the S1 and S2 UL410! Maybe Jive Sound will have the latter at the GTG this Sunday. I'm also interested to hear for myself how the HS cabs sound. I think the SA410 has killer tone, but it wasn't designed for a high-power SS rig.

 

[KJung]

Hey Ken, I am definitely curious about the differences between the S1 and S2 UL410! Maybe Jive Sound will have the latter at the GTG this Sunday. I'm also interested to hear for myself how the HS cabs sound. I think the SA410 has killer tone, but it wasn't designed for a high-power SS rig.

Hey Ken... let me know if you get a chance to try any of this stuff!

 

[GeorgeG]

Hey Dave,

Just took delivery of the first HS cabs and new NV cabs for Oz , yesterday.
Just from brief initial testing one thing, that really stands out, the HS cabs are LOUD, I mean very loud. The HS cabs while sounding very punchy definitely seem fuller and deeper in the bottom end and the highs are more inline with traditional 410 & 210 cabs (as Ken stated) while still retaining that sweetness that the Bergantino cabs are known for. Jim, definitely has some magic going on in his X-overs.
My initial thoughts on the Bergantino HS series is that they are going to be a very versatile cab which is going to work well with SS heads as well Tube heads. Tried them briefly with the Sadowsky SA200 and it sounded sweet. It's hard to find a cab that sounds great with a tube head as well as SS heads. Weight, shouldn't be a concern with these cabs as the're shallower depth definitely makes them easy to move around especially with those H/Duty 3" casters.
I also have an Epifani S1 UL410 4 ohm which was traded for an IP310. Will be A/B 'ing them soon hopefully to see how they compare. Pretty tied up at the moment.

If you want to find out more PM me or email.

BTW, I thought I'd mention this seeing I'm pretty excited since these cabs arrived yesterday- really luv the new NV cabs.

 

[Mr_Dave]

Hey Ken, I am definitely curious about the differences between the S1 and S2 UL410! Maybe Jive Sound will have the latter at the GTG this Sunday. I'm also interested to hear for myself how the HS cabs sound. I think the SA410 has killer tone, but it wasn't designed for a high-power SS rig.

Yep i wanna know! HS410 vs UL410seriesII FIGHT TO THE DEATH!

 

[Mr_Dave]

Hey Dave,

Just took delivery of the first HS cabs and new NV cabs for Oz , yesterday.
Just from brief initial testing one thing, that really stands out, the HS cabs are LOUD, I mean very loud. The HS cabs while sounding very punchy definitely seem fuller and deeper in the bottom end and the highs are more inline with traditional 410 & 210 cabs (as Ken stated) while still retaining that sweetness that the Bergantino cabs are known for. Jim, definitely has some magic going on in his X-overs.
My initial thoughts on the Bergantino HS series is that they are going to be a very versatile cab which is going to work well with SS heads as well Tube heads. Tried them briefly with the Sadowsky SA200 and it sounded sweet. It's hard to find a cab that sounds great with a tube head as well as SS heads. Weight, shouldn't be a concern with these cabs as the're shallower depth definitely makes them easy to move around especially with those H/Duty 3" casters.
I also have an Epifani S1 UL410 4 ohm which was traded for an IP310. Will be A/B 'ing them soon hopefully to see how they compare. Pretty tied up at the moment.

If you want to find out more PM me or email.

BTW, I thought I'd mention this seeing I'm pretty excited since these cabs arrived yesterday- really luv the new NV cabs.

Hi George,

thanks for helping me out with the info in my thread... i think i already PMed you about the cab a little while ago...

i'd love to hear your thoughts on the HS410 after you've had a chance to hear it a bit more, especially compared to the ul410.

I am leaning slightly to the HS at the moment because of the depth. 15.5inchs will be much easier for me to get into the back seat of my beat up old camry And the 3inch castors are great...

I'll PM you for more details...

cheers, dave

 

[emjazz]

Any pics of this cab yet?

 

[Jeff Moote]

Any pics of this cab yet?

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[murphy]

Beat me to it!

 

[Alistair R]

Hi George,

thanks for helping me out with the info in my thread... i think i already PMed you about the cab a little while ago...

i'd love to hear your thoughts on the HS410 after you've had a chance to hear it a bit more, especially compared to the ul410.

I am leaning slightly to the HS at the moment because of the depth. 15.5inchs will be much easier for me to get into the back seat of my beat up old camry And the 3inch castors are great...

I'll PM you for more details...

cheers, dave

+1. To me it sounds like the 'evenness' of the Berg would be better for you, rather than having that slighty mid hump.

I'll bring my 112's down for you to get an idea of the voicing if you like (And if i can), as I'm sure they'd be very similar. I think I too can see a Berg HS410 in my future!

 

[KJung]

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Those grey cones looked great with the Sadowsky logo... not so much with the green Berg logo... minor deal though. Per Mr_Dave's comment, that 15" depth is nice, even though the weight is a little much. The 15" depth versus the 18" depth of the 410UL is the difference between fitting in a back seat or not. If you have a small SUV, wagon, or van, it's a moot point.

Regarding mid hump, from what I understand, the newest version of the 410UL is not voiced that way, for better or worse, depending on your tone goals, etc.

 

[Mr_Dave]

Those grey cones looked great with the Sadowsky logo... not so much with the green Berg logo... minor deal though. Per Mr_Dave's comment, that 15" depth is nice, even though the weight is a little much. The 15" depth versus the 18" depth of the 410UL is the difference between fitting in a back seat or not. If you have a small SUV, wagon, or van, it's a moot point.

Regarding mid hump, from what I understand, the newest version of the 410UL is not voiced that way, for better or worse, depending on your tone goals, etc.

The Bergantino logo is very classy though

turns out my current cab is around 17.7 inchs (450mm) so i'd probably be cool with the epi. interesting