Bergantino NV212T

[Al Kraft]

These are all non-neo drivers.

I suspect that of all the variables in the cab design and voicing equation, speaker magnet material is pretty far down on the list. As for design of a speaker itself, I do think magnet material plays a role in defining the trade space you have to work with in areas like magnet and pole piece geometries which may offer desirable options and secondary effects in achieving certain performance goals.

 

[Big String]

In regard to mixing sealed and ported cabs.. I found a great post by the Master Himself .. Jim B.

From another thread.

From a pure technical stand point, given the 2 different roll off rates of the 2 designs in the low end (12db/octave - sealed vs. 24db/octave -ported) at some point down lower in their responses, there's going to be a gradual phase shift towards 90 degrees between the two. This, however, would be very low in frequency, typically below 40hz (based on the designs of the cabs in question) and it will be a gradual transition starting about an octave or so above this frequency. So what does this mean? The good news is they're still in phase with each other, but will only have a sum of 3db (90deg phase shift) vs. 6db (in phase)down low. But also given the sealed cabinet is rolling off half as fast, which means it will be higher in level when the phase shift is approaching 90 degrees between the 2 designs, it will most likely be a wash vs. 2 ported cabs whose responses are lower in level due to the steeper roll off rate(are you glad you asked yet? ;-} ).

The main reason I shy away from recommending these type of sealed/ported combos is mostly due to the typical sensitivity differences of the 2 designs. Sealed cabinets of a given size and configuration tend to be a good 3db less sensitive than a ported cab of similar size and configuration based on the type of woofers used in each design, which means the ported cab will tend to dominate the tonal spectrum of the mix of the 2 cabs. But that doesn't mean the additive characteristics of the 2 cabs are not desirable. That's up to the user. And BTW, this carries into also mixing cabs of the same design which have a 3db or more delta in sensitivity between the 2 cabs. In another thread (or maybe this thread) someone asked about mixing our NV115 with our NV212T. They're both sealed but I responded saying the NV212T will dominate the sound to a point you don't even realize the NV115 is there, until you disconnect the NV115 and realize it is making a contribution, it's just not calling any attention to itself.

In the case of our HG310, for instance, mixed with our HDN210, they use the same woofers and therefore it's really not an issue as described above from a tonal mix perspective. Same I believe would be for the HG410 and and HDN210's, as they also all use the same woofers and the mix would be cumulative.

Bottom line, if it sounds good and works for you, go for it!;-}

 

[Big String]

I use an IP112 with a NV115 as my main rig. An HT112 with a NV115 at home, my favorite rig of all time.

I thought about Peter's post for a bit. (BMS = Berg Mini Stack) HT/EX112. These where my first Bergie cabs and I used them for quite a while. So.. yes they are smaller, tighter sounding enclosures if I remember correctly. I'm curious if this first design would or would not be a better pairing with sealed cabs (specifically) the NV115 or NV212 than the later more evolved versions?? I kept one of my HD112's to use mainly for rehearsals easier to tote. Plus as I've mentioned the ceramic loaded HD112 is a pretty good pairing with a single NV115. The NV115 stack is still the best but its fun to experiment. Yes the HT is ported so I assume the discussion of what is the better pairing will yield a very similar answer. I don't plan on replacing my HD with a HT.

 

[pfschim]

In regard to mixing sealed and ported cabs.. I found a great post by the Master Himself .. Jim B.

From another thread.

From a pure technical stand point, given the 2 different roll off rates of the 2 designs in the low end (12db/octave - sealed vs. 24db/octave -ported) at some point down lower in their responses, there's going to be a gradual phase shift towards 90 degrees between the two. This, however, would be very low in frequency, typically below 40hz (based on the designs of the cabs in question) and it will be a gradual transition starting about an octave or so above this frequency. So what does this mean? The good news is they're still in phase with each other, but will only have a sum of 3db (90deg phase shift) vs. 6db (in phase)down low. But also given the sealed cabinet is rolling off half as fast, which means it will be higher in level when the phase shift is approaching 90 degrees between the 2 designs, it will most likely be a wash vs. 2 ported cabs whose responses are lower in level due to the steeper roll off rate(are you glad you asked yet? ;-} ).

The main reason I shy away from recommending these type of sealed/ported combos is mostly due to the typical sensitivity differences of the 2 designs. Sealed cabinets of a given size and configuration tend to be a good 3db less sensitive than a ported cab of similar size and configuration based on the type of woofers used in each design, which means the ported cab will tend to dominate the tonal spectrum of the mix of the 2 cabs. But that doesn't mean the additive characteristics of the 2 cabs are not desirable. That's up to the user. And BTW, this carries into also mixing cabs of the same design which have a 3db or more delta in sensitivity between the 2 cabs. In another thread (or maybe this thread) someone asked about mixing our NV115 with our NV212T. They're both sealed but I responded saying the NV212T will dominate the sound to a point you don't even realize the NV115 is there, until you disconnect the NV115 and realize it is making a contribution, it's just not calling any attention to itself.

In the case of our HG310, for instance, mixed with our HDN210, they use the same woofers and therefore it's really not an issue as described above from a tonal mix perspective. Same I believe would be for the HG410 and and HDN210's, as they also all use the same woofers and the mix would be cumulative.

Bottom line, if it sounds good and works for you, go for it!;-}

very interesting comments from Jim B. Thanks for sharing.

I already have an NV610, but I am strongly considering picking up one of his smaller/newer sealed cabs - NV212T, HG310 or HG410.

I am a little put off by the 8ohm rating on the NV212T, but as I am primarily using 800w amps these days (Mesa D800+, Demeter VTBP-M-800D, and possibly a Mesa WD800 soon), I don't suspect it will be a big issue.

OTOH, I was thinking that in a pinch, I could run the 8ohm NV212T with my 8ohm CN112 for a 4ohm total load (plus another 12" driver).

Guess I'll just have to hear it to know if it works for me.

 

[pfschim]

all you NV212T users still happy with the box ?

 

[U4EA]

Anyone ever tried an ampeg v4b with one of these cabs...? Thoughts?

I tried this configuration and found the v4b took on a more Berg sound, being clearer, more focused, it was good. However if I tried to push the bass past 12 o'clock, my open E string started to struggle (roll off point). vs the stv212av, the 212 performed better for pushing Booty E string lows. Gigging a v4b and 2x Nv212 would do it for me.

 

[U4EA]

all you NV212T users still happy with the box ?

Yes, very happy with it with the Walkabout actually. At 8 Ohms, it was as loud as the WA 15 combo at 4 0hms. The tone of the cab is even and authoritative on all 4 strings and stomped the v4b in comparison.
I added a Berg Hter 112 on top for a 4 ohm load and it mixed very well with the Nv212. It was like adding a 12 on top of a 12 and came across fuller, thicker lows, allowing me to add more bass on the WA without any struggle from the cabs. Overall, it probably lost in definition but gained in overall volume and thickness. 2x nv212 would be a wicked rig.
I also tried the NV212 with a Berg Ht112 (non er) and didn't like the mix with it on top. I preferred the tone of both cabs on the floor side by side. Don't ask me why? My 2 cents. NV212 is an awesome sounding cab though.

 

[pfschim]

any of you NV212T users ever compare it to one of Jims HG cabs .. 310 or 410 ?
I'm strongly leaning towards the NV212T, but am open to the HG cabs too and am seeking experienced input.

thanks

 

[MrDOS]

all you NV212T users still happy with the box ?

The HG cabs sure look sweet, but I'm happy with the NV212T. I've used it (with the B|Amp) on stages from "too small for a rock band" to outdoors with nothing behind us for 100 yards.
Keep us posted!

 

[Chadwick123]

I’ll tell you what... I brought only one of these cabs to a really big stage last weekend because I was too lazy to drag both of mine. Anyway, the one cab more than got the job done and sounded amazing. Keeps getting creamier with time as it breaks in. So yes, still loving it!

 

[baddarryl]

Anyone else use a V4B with one? For classic rock at the club and small festival but we do have FOH support usually n

 

[pfschim]

Just thought I'd add that Jim B seems to be discontinuing the NV line. He posted as much to the Bergantino Club thread a week or so ago. The Bergantino site had a blow-out sale on the remaining NV212t and NV115 cabs that they had in stock. There may be some Berg dealers with a few others for sale, but if you are interested in a new NV212t or NV115, now is probably the time to go and seek one out. I caught a bit of a break and had an opportunity to pick up a clean used NV212t from a fellow TBer just as this sale was announced.

good luck

 

[kringle77]

Thats too bad but, he'll probably reissue them later. Id love to have a 212t but, just bad timing.

 

[baddarryl]

Just thought I'd add that Jim B seems to be discontinuing the NV line. He posted as much to the Bergantino Club thread a week or so ago. The Bergantino site had a blow-out sale on the remaining NV212t and NV115 cabs that they had in stock. There may be some Berg dealers with a few others for sale, but if you are interested in a new NV212t or NV115, now is probably the time to go and seek one out. I caught a bit of a break and had an opportunity to pick up a clean used NV212t from a fellow TBer just as this sale was announced.

good luck

What do you think of it?

 

[Playbyear]

There are still “limited quantities” of NV212T for $879. (Shipped) shown on the site.
It will add to cart.

NV115 is shown as discontinued.

 

[pfschim]

What do you think of it?

well, no surprise, I liked it very much. Jim B makes such great sounding cabs.
The added weight over my CN212 (current goto gig cab) was noticable, but manageable at load-in/out.

Tone was tighter/punchier than the CN212, which I hear as very smooth and full range. However, the gig I took the NV212t on was not very typical for me .. a Celtic Christmas show, so more trad/acoustic-y than my usual rock, funk, Americana/roots, jazz gigs. I will need to take the NV212t out on more gigs before I really get a full feel for how it will perform.

But, based on studio use, 2 rehearsals and the Celtic music gig, I like it a lot and can totally see how it will slot into the place of my now sold NV610.

 

[baddarryl]

well, no surprise, I liked it very much. Jim B makes such great sounding cabs.
The added weight over my CN212 (current goto gig cab) was noticable, but manageable at load-in/out.

Tone was tighter/punchier than the CN212, which I hear as very smooth and full range. However, the gig I took the NV212t on was not very typical for me .. a Celtic Christmas show, so more trad/acoustic-y than my usual rock, funk, Americana/roots, jazz gigs. I will need to take the NV212t out on more gigs before I really get a full feel for how it will perform.

But, based on studio use, 2 rehearsals and the Celtic music gig, I like it a lot and can totally see how it will slot into the place of my now sold NV610.

Thanks. I am also wondering if my 100w V4B will push it.

 

[pfschim]

Thanks. I am also wondering if my 100w V4B will push it.

When I first got the NV212t, I ran it with my Walkabout which is only doing ~165w @ 8ohms. It sounded great and there was plenty of volume for my general needs. OTOH, If I had to cover a med/large venue with a loud band without FOH support, it probably would not work so well. YMMV with the V4B though, depending on your volume needs and tone goals. In my limited experience, the V4B is kind of a grindy amp at its upper power range.

 

[U4EA]

Just wanted to clarify my earlier post.

When pushing my V4b reissue through the Nv212, ultra low on, bass past 12 o'clock, i could get the cab to brown out. This is not the cab's fault. This is me pushing 100watts as clean as i could get it until the amp hit it's limit. The av212 did the same only distorted differently tone wise. Otherwise, both cabs are rated at 99 spl and performed equally well clean volume wise until the amp reached its limit. 100w Will only get you so far. Tone wise, each cab has it's distinct colour.

When pushed with 400w at 8 ohms, the Nv212 was no slouch and welcomed all the power. It was punchy and authorotative with unlacking full lows down to open E, rolling off but solid down to low B. There was no brown out with a powerful amp pushing it.

 

[U4EA]

Thanks. I am also wondering if my 100w V4B will push it.

The v4b reissue works very well for me with this cab. Nice tone and strong lows if you don't over do it. As stated, it will only get you so loud.
I would suggest trying your head with a cab rated close to 99 spl to see if the volume produced would do it for you.