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Best 15” speaker

#244
Some of the speaker manufacturers I mentioned such as Eminence,PRV,B+C,Beyma,Faital,Celestion and others all make some great 15 inch drivers and many have box plans or the retailers like Parts Express and USSpeaker that sell those speakers can supply plans as well.Its obvious some of us on here have not done this in quite some time as all the non existent speakers you mention.
 
#245
BruceG63 said:
Some of the speaker manufacturers I mentioned such as Eminence,PRV,B+C,Beyma,Faital,Celestion and others all make some great 15 inch drivers and many have box plans or the retailers like Parts Express and USSpeaker that sell those speakers can supply plans as well.Its obvious some of us on here have not done this in quite some time as all the non existent speakers you mention.
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Has anyone mentioned any nonexistent drivers? Certainly a lot that haven't been made in years, even decades, but nonexistent? I myself have four JBL D140s , a couple of K140s and a 2220. I'm pretty sure that the 2220 has been reconed, though.

It's also true, at least in my own case, that I haven't built my own bass cabinet in some time, though I do have plans to do so. I'll use one of the K140s, though. The truth is, I have waaay too many 15"s sitting around!
 
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#247
Redbrangus said:
That's pretty much a matter of semantics, IMHO -- non-existent or just not available? If a driver can't be bought new and the manufacturer no longer provides re-cone parts -- or, in some instances, no longer even exists -- what's the point of recommending that driver?
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There's also the false sense of security when parts for long since manufactured drivers are nowhere near the same specs as the original factory parts, which results in drivers with completely different TS parameters. That's assuming the parts even fit.
 
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#249
isaac42 said:
All true, of course. I strongly doubt that there are any NOS drivers out there. But there are used ones available on eBay. They're not even all that expensive. How good their condition might be is another question!
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Beware when buying used drivers, from what I have seen many have been reconed with poor/cheap parts for quick profitable sale. I see the results when customers bring in their problems. This is especially true of out of production parts like many JBL, EV, Gauss, Altec, etc. Since factory parts are no longer available, it's a crapshoot as to what you really receive. I used to have access to some very good aftermarket parts sources but they are also gone, replaced by overseas parts that nobody can compete with.
 
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#250
agedhorse said:
Beware when buying used drivers, from what I have seen many have been reconed with poor/cheap parts for quick profitable sale. I see the results when customers bring in their problems. This is especially true of out of production parts like many JBL, EV, Gauss, Altec, etc. Since factory parts are no longer available, it's a crapshoot as to what you really receive. I used to have access to some very good aftermarket parts sources but they are also gone, replaced by overseas parts that nobody can compete with.
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Excellent advice, sir.
 
#252
agedhorse said:
Beware when buying used drivers, from what I have seen many have been reconed with poor/cheap parts for quick profitable sale. I see the results when customers bring in their problems. This is especially true of out of production parts like many JBL, EV, Gauss, Altec, etc. Since factory parts are no longer available, it's a crapshoot as to what you really receive. I used to have access to some very good aftermarket parts sources but they are also gone, replaced by overseas parts that nobody can compete with.
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This is the whole problem with advocating for vintage drivers. I happen to think an E-140 really IS the best sounding 15 for a single-driver bass cab, but it's pointless to recommend them. Even if you do happen to luck onto a good used one, you really need to be cautious using it because once it's fried, it's history -- it can't be restored to its original wonderful state, as there are no longer any JBL recone kits. And as Andy mentioned, there are no longer any decent aftermarket recones to be had even if you were willing to spend the money. I think this is why you see E-140s and their antecedents so cheap ($100-150 is the going rate around here) -- they're pretty much a dead end when it comes to repairing them. The same is true of the vintage EVs and Altecs...great sounding speakers, but they need to be treated like the specialty items they are. That makes them impractical for most folks to use as their everyday beaters.
 
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#253
I also like the JBL and EV models, but there’s a good reason they were discontinued. They were no longer competitive in terms of cost, weight and power handling. Both manufacturers made follow-up products, but after a few years stopped selling the raw drivers and used them in finished products only.
 
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#254
I could have chosen my words better.It would be senseless to use the old JBL,EV,Altec,Gauss,CTS,Utah etc since new modern drivers have so much better specs and would work far better for the application.Some of the new 15s have up to 4 to 5 times the power handling and xmax[cone excursion limits]than the old speakers being mentioned.And like Aged Horse said a lot of those drivers have been reconed with inferior non manufacturer spec products that would completely change the driver parameters and make it impossible to run them thru any box program suchs as winisd or bassbox making it an absolute crapshoot to get good results.Case in point a few years back I saw where somebody sent an old EV SRO alnico 12 with the factory smoothcone somewhere to get reconed and it came back with a cone to a EV 12L [ribbed cone]that sounded quite different.Let sleeping dogs lie and go with speaker manufacturers that I mentioned earlier.You will get drastically better results.
 
#256
I think, that like the girls from my youth, memory about these old amps, cabinets, and speakers, are far kinder than reality when comparing them to what's current today. I had some JBL Cabaret bins back in the day, but that was then . . . . and that JBL no longer exists, nor would I keep them instead of current Subway, Genzler, or any good cabinets of today. This . . . . is now.
 
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#257
agedhorse said:
EV never used ribbed cones in any SRO or EVM speaker with that basket depth.
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The SRO was smoothcone as he a had a pair of them in an old guitar amp[West I think] and one speaker was sent to a business to be reconed and it came back with a ribbed cone.When the business was contacted about that they said they recone the old SRO 12s with EVM 12L cones.I was just going by what they said.Thank you for the correction.There is a speaker company called WGS that makes a smooth cone and a ribbed cone version of the same speaker.There is a difference in tone between the 2 because of the cones.
 
#258
JW56789 said:
I think, that like the girls from my youth, memory about these old amps, cabinets, and speakers, are far kinder than reality when comparing them to what's current today. I had some JBL Cabaret bins back in the day, but that was then . . . . and that JBL no longer exists, nor would I keep them instead of current Subway, Genzler, or any good cabinets of today. This . . . . is now.
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Thats what I was wondering. Are the old cabs better but they wouldn't sell these days due to cost, weight and power handling? I think that there is a lot of rosy nostalgia going on in these forums :)
 
#259
Triple 7, I look at it like this: When I had those Cabarets, they were the cat's ass . . . . in the mid-80's, and driven by a CS800 and PB1 Yamaha preamp, it was big and clean . . . . but I could bury one with 400w from each channel going to each of the two cabinets. For the day, they were the bomb . . . . but they were heavy relative to today, and did not have the power handling, and IF you blew the 15 or the 'bullet' JBL tweeter, it weren't cheep, believe me.

Today, a single 15 Subway would be much lighter, much clearer, and handle more power. Adjusted for inflation, I'd think the relative cost would be the same, or the Subway might be a bit cheaper. So for me, it's a no brainer.
Not to mention I can ditch the CS800, preamp, and rack case for a cigar-box sized, 5 lb., 800w mono amp with better performance and tone for much less money than that whole rack cost.

So now, what is it I'm supposed to miss, what am I giving up, except less performance, more weight, a bigger buy-in cost?

Granted, in its' day, that stack sounded great, but JBL is a hollow brand name in many ways now, not the monolith it once was, Peavey is a shell of itself, and I do admit I wish the PB1 were still in production, it was timeless in many ways.

I've had my days of nursing sputtering old amps and cabs, and being in the furniture moving business with 215's or folded 18's, and to me, the amps and cabs we have now are light years ahead of that old iron.

That was then, and this is now. I'm not going back to film cameras (even as much as I love Velvia) and I'm not buying LP's (I grew up with the scratchy b++++++s): These things went out of widespread use for a reason, just like those old amps, speakers, and cabs: Something better came along.
 
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#260
matti777 said:
Thats what I was wondering. Are the old cabs better but they wouldn't sell these days due to cost, weight and power handling? I think that there is a lot of rosy nostalgia going on in these forums :)
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Quite possible. Of course, it's also possible that the old speakers really are better. Better sounding, at least; they certainly don't have better power handling. Old rigs tend to fall short on maximum volume as well.

I don't get much chance to try out new bass rigs. A few years ago, I played through an Aguilar rig at a jam session. Sounded very, very good, but also very different from, say, a 60s Sunn 200S rig.

Just last week, I played through a tiny Phil Jones combo. Two 5-inch drivers. Amazingly loud for its size, plenty loud enough for the fairly large room we were playing in. I didn't much care for the sound, though. I thought it was rather undefined. I'd have expected a lot more midrange from 5" drivers.

I don't think I've ever heard a speaker that sounded better than a Sunn 200S with the classic JBL D140F drivers. Different, yes, but not better. Similarly, if someone thinks that the Acoustic 360/361 is the perfect bass sound, I doubt that any modern rig would be able to do what that rig does better than it does. But the size, the weight, the sheer volume of those rigs? Who needs 'em? These days, I'm happier when I can run straight into the board and dispense with a separate bass rig entirely.
 

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