Double Bass Best 1x12 for the $$$$$

[jumbosilverette]

I own an Avatar 212 and love it. I bet their 112 is good too.

Hey Guys.
I recently got my K&K Bass Max. I currently have a giant 15" speaker, which is terrible. I tried out a bunch of different sizes with the head that I have (Hartke 3500A) and I learned that the best fit was a 1x12. I am currently considering an Aguilar GS112 NT cab for around $350. If anyone has any experience with this cabinet or have a suggestion for something better, drop me a line.
-Peace,
Greg O

P.S. I'm broke, so anything under $500 would be great!

 

[robgrow]

I recently bought a wizzy to use with the AI focus 2R series III head...

Two weeks ago at a wedding gig the wizzy just stopped working... Any thoughts, similar experiences?

That sounds like a freak thing to me, and it's most likely that one particular driver (raw speaker) was a dud. I have been using my Wizzy with a Walter Woods High Power amp for several months now for DB and Fender Bass, and the Wizzy has hung in there very well with no problems whatsoever.

 

[drurb]

Two weeks ago at a wedding gig the wizzy just stopped working. Completely dead, and very frustrating. At the time I didn't know if it was the head or the cab, so I just plugged direct into the p.a. and finished the gig. Took it home, tested, the speaker was making zero sound. I got a free replacement in a few days from EA, very fast turnaround. Now my wizzy is working again and used it last weekend, no problems. But now I'm a bit apprehensive if the speaker will blow again. I'm wondering if the AI Focus at 4 ohms, 800 watts, is too much for wizzy rated at 200 watts. I don't crank the head, but I do feel like sometimes I really push my system when I really dig in on those low notes. Any thoughts, similar experiences?

Yep. The same thing happened to me. I use the EA iamp200 and I don't push it hard. Apparently the Wizzy voice coil opened. EA replaced it very quickly-- even sent me a loaner for a gig I had.

What kind of pickup do you use? The reason I ask is that, as you may have read from my previous posts, some piezos pass a fair amount of infrasonics. If the amp does not filter them, they can cause the Wizzy cone (or any other driver, especially in a ported cabinet) to make huge excursions. These days, I am never without an active high-pass filter.

All in all, I really like the Wizzy.

 

[DB66]

Yep. The same thing happened to me. What kind of pickup do you use?

A Realist.

 

[drurb]

A Realist.

Hmm. I don't think the Realist would be as prone to producing infrasonic transients as bridge-wing piezos that transduce more "string noise." Still, a high-pass filter would be a good idea. Here's a little test you can do. With the amp at a normal to high gain setting, grab your E-string and wiggle it back and forth. Any cone movement from the Wizzy? There really should be none. Any you do see is infrasonic response. This can also be manifest as the cone "jumping" just as you bring your finger down on the string before the actual pull.

 

[bribass]

Yep. The same thing happened to me. some piezos pass a fair amount of infrasonics. If the amp does not filter them, they can cause the Wizzy cone (or any other driver, especially in a ported cabinet) to make huge excursions. These days, I am never without an active high-pass filter.

Are you saying that you should always use the high-pass filter when playing at higher volumes to protect the speaker from infrasonics?
BG

 

[drurb]

Are you saying that you should always use the high-pass filter when playing at higher volumes to protect the speaker from infrasonics?
BG

Well, not really. Not all types of transducers will pass appreciable levels of infrasonics. Piezos often do. Furthermore, some amplifiers will not pass them. As for the speaker systems, ported designs of the type most of us use are particularly vulnerable given their low-frequency resonance properties. So, you have to consider the pickup, the amp, and the speaker.

For example, I use a RS-2 pickup, an iamp200, and the Wizzy. Although the RS-2 has relatively less infrasonic response than does the RS-1, it still has some. The iamp will happily pass very low frequencies and that, in my application, robs (wastes) power. These will make the Wizzy dance like crazy. Many other amps will do this as well.

So, if you're using a piezo, particularly one that is mounted in the bridge-wing, and your amp does not incorporate a suitable high-pass response, it is a VERY good idea to employ a high-pass filter.

Here's a bit of irony. Before I bought my Wizzy rig (which I really do like!), I used a Behringer BX-1200. That little rig costs all of $200 or so. Even with the RS-1, there is, for all intents and purposes, no response to infrasonics. Clearly, Behringer built in a high-pass response.

The truth is that many "high-end" designers want their amps to pass low frequencies right down to DC. That's not a bad goal if you are allowing for the five-string BG player with a low-B. For the DB player using a piezo, it's not desirable. I realize that amp designers do not design for that particular application but on this side of TB it is hardly uncommon. Fortunately, the remedy is pretty simple.

 

[bribass]

drurb, thanks for the response, but I'm not clear why it is that a bridge wing type pu would produce more infrasonics than a pu like the Realist (what I use). Isn't the Realist because of its placement, inherently darker sounding w/ more body sound? I would think this thudier respones would produce lower frequencies.

BG

 

[carved czech]

For very low volume gigs, I like the GK 112MBX very much. Of course there are better sounding cabs, but, for sheer portability, the 112MBX is hard to beat. Actually it sounds pretty good with my Walter Woods amp -- much better than an MB150 to my ear. When I don't want to schlep my Wizzy or VL208, the 112MBX is a nice option to have.

+1
I use the GK 112MBX with my GK 200MB (discontinued ), so I have 2x12".It is enough for big band plus maximum portability.

 

[tombowlus]

Greg,

My personal choice for best 1x12 for the money is the Euphonic Audio Wizzy. The more I use mine, the more I like it and appreciate it. The sound is very good for my purposes plus it is particularly efficient and relatively compact and easy to transport. (It weighs under 30 lbs and is not as bulky as some other 1x12 cabs.) Wizzys sell for under $500 USD.

+1 And further props for the M-line Wizzy (a different flavor of "great!").

 

[tombowlus]

That sounds like a freak thing to me, and it's most likely that one particular driver (raw speaker) was a dud. I have been using my Wizzy with a Walter Woods High Power amp for several months now for DB and Fender Bass, and the Wizzy has hung in there very well with no problems whatsoever.

Agreed. I have done some long/loud gigs with two Wizzy's and an iAMP 800 (that's 500w into each cab) with no issues. The Wizzy certainly seems to handle more than it's rated for, but caution is certainly warranted.

Tom.

 

[drurb]

drurb, thanks for the response, but I'm not clear why it is that a bridge wing type pu would produce more infrasonics than a pu like the Realist (what I use). Isn't the Realist because of its placement, inherently darker sounding w/ more body sound? I would think this thudier respones would produce lower frequencies.

BG

Well, I haven't performed formal tests but it seems to be related to the transduction of transients and "string noise." The infrasonics are really artifacts that, I believe, are not ever transmitted through the body of the bass to any considerable degree.

 

[Ric Vice]

Hmm. I don't think the Realist would be as prone to producing infrasonic transients as bridge-wing piezos that transduce more "string noise." Still, a high-pass filter would be a good idea. Here's a little test you can do. With the amp at a normal to high gain setting, grab your E-string and wiggle it back and forth. Any cone movement from the Wizzy? There really should be none. Any you do see is infrasonic response. This can also be manifest as the cone "jumping" just as you bring your finger down on the string before the actual pull.

Drurb,
I don't know what the technical term for it is, but a Realist has a higer output than say an Underwood or the RS pickups. In my laymans terms it's got a much hotter signal going into the input, so I think you're right on the money with the high pass filter.

Ric Vice

 

[drurb]

Drurb,
I don't know what the technical term for it is, but a Realist has a higer output than say an Underwood or the RS pickups. In my laymans terms it's got a much hotter signal going into the input, so I think you're right on the money with the high pass filter.

Ric Vice

Glad you agree. Actually, the RS-2 has a substantially higher output than does the RS-1. I do not know how the RS-2 compares to the Realist in terms of output. In my experience, the "hotter" pickups tend to have more output in the passband (the frequencies we desire to reproduce) RELATIVE to the infrasonics they may pass. So, for those pickups, the infrasonic response becomes less of an issue. The RS-2 is "hotter" than the RS-1 and the relation seems to hold there as well. So, some pickups "need" a device with a high-pass response following them (a pre-amp, a dedicated HPF, or the main amp itself) while others do not. Still, a HPF with a piezo pickup just seems like good insurance.

 

[bribass]

Glad you agree. Actually, the RS-2 has a substantially higher output than does the RS-1. I do not know how the RS-2 compares to the Realist in terms of output. In my experience, the "hotter" pickups tend to have more output in the passband (the frequencies we desire to reproduce) RELATIVE to the infrasonics they may pass. So, for those pickups, the infrasonic response becomes less of an issue. The RS-2 is "hotter" than the RS-1 and the relation seems to hold there as well. So, some pickups "need" a device with a high-pass response following them (a pre-amp, a dedicated HPF, or the main amp itself) while others do not. Still, a HPF with a piezo pickup just seems like good insurance.

So again in this case it seems that w/ a lower output piezo like the older Realist that I
use, you're recommending use of the Focus 2r III's HPF when playing at louder levels inorder to protect the Wizzy's speaker for infrasonics. Yes?

BG

 

[drurb]

So again in this case it seems that w/ a lower output piezo like the older Realist that I
use, you're recommending use of the Focus 2r III's HPF when playing at louder levels inorder to protect the Wizzy's speaker for infrasonics. Yes?

BG

Yes. In fact, at any level, I'd keep the HPF engaged.

 

[bribass]

Yes. In fact, at any level, I'd keep the HPF engaged.

But not necessary w/ the magnetic pu of of a BG?

 

[PB+J]

I just posted a preliminary review of the Markbass 121P combo--single 12. I'm doing a gig with it tonight

 

[drurb]

But not necessary w/ the magnetic pu of of a BG?

I would think not. I can't imagine a magnetic pickup, being an inductive device, producing anything appreciable in the infrasonic range.

 

[fdeck]

I think the magnetic pickup does not produce infrasonics because the signal it receives is processed by a nearly ideal bandpass filter -- the strings. If my hypothesis is correct, then the subharmonic thump is caused by the attack on the string effectively beating on the body of the bass like a drum. And the drum is tuned to produce that thump.

The electric bass incorporates the same ideal filter, but also has no body to make the thump.

Naturally, a real acoustics expert could either put the above into proper technical terms, or tell me that I am wacko.

I get a lot less thump with my mag pup.