Best Approach to Fretless

[Inara]

Regarding the different ideas about lined fretless intonation, here's a discussion with Gary Willis. He originally recommended the "just behind the 12th line" approach, but he now says that if he were starting over he would intonate it right on the line, because the behind the line approach messes with the relation of the lines to the scale length. This is from 2009, but I've heard him say it in much more recent videos as well:
Willis Takes on Your Questions : Ask Willis

Your mileage may vary ... as posted above, the "behind the 12th line" approach is definitely preferred by some. And either way, also as posted above, the lines are just a guideline anyway. Your ears are the authority. And the lines, like frets, represent the tempered scale anyway, which is a compromise designed to make all keys as close to being in tune as possible, with the result that each key is very slightly off. We don't tend to hear it, because we're so used to the tempered scale. With a fretless, you can explore non-tempered approaches such as just intonation. Of course, this also depends on who you're playing with: keyboards are usually locked into the tempered scale for example, and you need your approach to fit the ensemble. But if you're playing a solo piece, or playing with singers and a string quartet, just intonation might be appropriate. It's all context-dependent, and fretless gives you the flexibility to choose.

A few more pieces of advice to go along with the great tips already posted by others:

1. Don't do vibrato or bends across the fingerboard like you do on a fretted bass. You don't need to, because the frets are what forced that technique, plus it will tear up the fingerboard. With no frets, you do vibrato by rocking your finger back and forth along the length of the string.

2. Don't go overboard with sliding into notes just because you can. It can be very expressive and a perfect fit in spots, but it should be an ornament that you choose to add to a line, not your default way of playing.

3. This goes along with the above advice to play everything on fretless that you play on fretted: work on being able to play a fretless without anyone knowing you're playing a fretless. You should be able to go back and forth from that approach to your more melodic and expressive fretless style effortlessly, depending on what best serves the song.

Finally, best wishes! Fretless is a wonderful thing, and it's what I've always much preferred. I play it almost exclusively, and it's very rewarding.

 

[iiipopes]

Take double bass lessons so you understand proper technique in both hands, to develop clean articulation and pitch, as well as positions to make transitions easier without looking at the fingerboard. Set the bass up with the strings a millimeter higher off the fingerboard so when you stop the notes (It is called stopping instead of fretting when there are no frets) the articulation is clean.

 

[fishdreams]

Practice by ear! For example
1. Pick any note (say, a C) and play it (in a regular time pattern) anywhere where there's a C on the fingerboard. Don't look.
2. Practice playing in octaves (going up a scale for example). These are the great to practice, everybody hears those when they are out of tune.
3. Play scales and arpeggios in all keys - you want them to sound the same all over the neck
4. Get a good double bass book. Not necessarily using those fingerings, but to learn to think in positions, which helps greatly with intonating properly.
5. Work your tone through attack, finger angle, amplitude changes, positioning etc. The differences in tone will make it worthwhile; also the tone envelops in a different way than on a fretted bass. The whole concept of 'punch' works very differently on a fretless bass, for example.

It really isn't more 'difficult', it is IMO just a bit different. Give it time, and treat it like its own thing, rather than an afterthought on fretted playing, and the reward is a feeling and freedom of expression you won't get on a fretted bass.

 

[Chad Michael]

This is what worked for me (ymmv):

- park your fretted bass and play fretless only and play it until it speaks what you want to say

Some things and skills require that your feet be in the fire. Commit.

 

[Blue]

Three tips:
1) when you can, play open notes. I do it a LOT, even on the fretted bass because it is very very useful in seamless transitions up and down the neck ... with the fretless, it adds a critical "reference" pitch.
2) Do NOT Tune incessantly ... I watch fretless players holding a "fretted note", and tuning to that when it's really just their finger off a tiny bit.
3) Tune - at least initially - to the 12'th "fret" harmonic. The open note will be almost exactly 1 octave below, and the tuner can more readily hear the higher octave. I say "almost exactly" because the actually pitch will initially change based on how hard you hit the string ...

 

[WillyW]

Fretted bases feel weird to me after just a few months of switching.

I never considered myself to have a good ear, but my intonation and ear is better now than it ever was.

I have found I prefer unlined. But that’s personal preference, and it makes me look cooler..

 

[Pings Bass]

Practice with a bow to improve intonation-- oh wait, this is a BG...

But seriously, the only way to get proficient is to practice, practice, practice. Scales and arpeggios all up and down the fingerboard. Record yourself. Playing with a tuner on can be illuminating, but remember that one of the best things about fretless is that you're not limited to tempered intonation. You can play perfect intervals! Your tuner will lie!

Have fun!

 

[dkelley]

Nothing wrong with lined. If you're paid and recording, lined let's you know you'll be in tune BEFORE you hear that you're out of tune.

If it's good enough for Tony Levin, who plays lined because he claims he can't play in tune well without lines (he's exaggerating of course), then it's good enough for me.

Of course mine is unlined.... because I like it that way too. But I played lined when I was making a full time living from this....

 

[5andFretless]

I have fretless P with no markings on the fret board and a Carvin that is lined and marked to the point that at a short distance most would swear it is fretted. I've been playing long enough that I rarely look at my left hand, and I can roll/bend into tune almost without thinking. To me I would rather people recognize that there are no frets than assume incorrectly that there are frets.

As far as ease of learning I doubt if the lines and markings make that much difference after the initial change over

 

[MVE]

Use. Your. Ears. That's the only way to improve your intonation on a fretless and not be stuck staring at the finger board for the rest of time.

How do know your ears are any good?
How do you know your octave is an octave and your fifth is a fifth?
Ive said this in a few other threads, but when I got the app Tunerval for my iPhone I discovered Im lucky to be within 30 cents on most intervals.
Im sure most people are probably better than me, but Im also sure most people probably aren’t as good as they think they are.
So, to the OP, download Tunerval and practice thirds, fifths and octaves for a start and get those in your head.

 

[Tazziedevil]

I have had an unlined fretless in the past, I currently play a fretless Ibanez that's lined. I much prefer the lined, It's easier for me if something isn't sounding right to make adjustments on the fly. I'd rather be able to have some reference and look slightly less cool (not like I ever look cool, but...)

The other thing about a fretless is you can have ridiculously low action. You can fly around the fretboard a whole lot faster on a fretless and really dig in and get that woody rattle, especially with the E string.

 

[Tim Grant]

There are lots of good suggestions above this comment. The only thing I would add is to practice the vomit excersize. Google "vomit exercise bass" and you will get lots of videos. They are mostly double bass videos but you can do it on an electric as well. Also to reiterate practice scales, scales, scales, and arpeggios. Use open notes and a tuner to check yourself.

 

[Tom Bomb]

Close your eyes and play.

 

[bassrique]

I have played lined and unlined. One is easier to play in tune. Why fight the instrument? To look cool?

The electric bass guitar is a relatively new instrument that has more in common with a guitar than an orchestral instruments that have no lines and have been played for centuries. On an upright bass, one can feel where one is as the neck changes shape and the body is another guide. On a guitar instrument, the neck sticks out away from the body rather than along side the body.

Watch vids of Jaco playing busy lines. Jaco is looking at his fretting hand. Jaco is looking at the lines. Be like Jaco.

 

[MVE]

My favorite fretless practice song is Star Spangled Banner. Its a fun song that you can really get vocally on the melody line. Give it a try. Its easy and fun and, like Happy Birthday, always a good tune to have in your pocket.

 

[Ggaa]

Use. Your. Ears. That's the only way to improve your intonation on a fretless and not be stuck staring at the finger board for the rest of time.

And it happens faster than you might think IME.

 

[nonohmic]

I have played lined and unlined. One is easier to play in tune. Why fight the instrument? To look cool?

The electric bass guitar is a relatively new instrument that has more in common with a guitar than an orchestral instruments that have no lines and have been played for centuries. On an upright bass, one can feel where one is as the neck changes shape and the body is another guide. On a guitar instrument, the neck sticks out away from the body rather than along side the body.

Watch vids of Jaco playing busy lines. Jaco is looking at his fretting hand. Jaco is looking at the lines. Be like Jaco.View attachment 3707884

Thank you. This thread is about switching to fretless and people are saying play freakin unlined in the dark? It's like saying 'Dont use Duolingo or google translate to learn a language..just go to the country and talk to people..'

Nah man, imma use all the tools i have available...lines, my tuner, AND my ear until I'm comfortable with the instrument.

I had a fretboard map poster on my wall the first year i played bass so i could learn where the notes are. Seems the same kind of thing to me.

 

[nonohmic]

A few more pieces of advice to go along with the great tips already posted by

2. Don't go overboard with sliding into notes just because you can. It can be very expressive and a perfect fit in spots, but it should be an ornament that you choose to add to a line, not your default way of playing.

3. This goes along with the above advice to play everything on fretless that you play on fretted: work on being able to play a fretless without anyone knowing you're playing a fretless. You should be able to go back and forth from that approach to your more melodic and expressive fretless style effortlessly, depending on what best serves the song.

This is great advice, and good to get 'on the ground floor' cheer!

 

[Thegrandwazoo]

I prefer a lined fingerboard to help play in tune. Others will tell you you don’t need lines and that an unlined board looks cooler.

Also, I like to use open strings where possible. Don’t have to worry about intonation!

^ That. Lines help a lot, especially for beginners, but I think they serve a very useful purpose for anyone. Uprights are unlined, and that's fine. A bass guitar's scale isn't nearly so long as an upright, and therefore not nearly so forgiving of small intonation mistakes, not to mention they're expected to be played in a different way. I have lined and unlined fretless basses, and have played them for years, and I still slightly prefer lined (unlined does in fact look cooler, though, that much is true. Particularly maple or ebony...).

Definitely use open strings as often as you can, for the reason stated above. Also, for me (I don't really use open strings on fretted electric bass unless it's necessary), it helps to consciously use a different style when playing fretless, that way my fretted shortcut habits don't accidentally bleed over into my fretless playing. I also contour my fretless fingerboards to a round, vintage Fender type 7.25 inch radius if they didn't come that way, while all of my fretted basses are 11 or 12 inch radius. Again, if the instrument feels different it helps me to subconsciously keep my techniques separate.

When starting out on upright and, later, fretless bass guitar, I used to jam along with recordings (a practice method I haven't really used for fretted bass practice in a bunch of years), helps with training your ears and muscle memory to sync up together. At least in my experience.

Don't bend or vibrato 'up and down' (perpendicular to the scale) like you would on a fretted bass, it sounds not great, chokes notes, and can accelerate fingerboard wear. Instead, roll your finger ever so slightly along the length of the scale if you need to 'bend' or vibrato notes (I use this kind of vibrato for fretted bass too, but bend if I need a big bend. You won't ever need a big bend on fretless since you can instead perform a small slide). Speaking of fingerboard wear, don't worry about it as long as you're playing with proper technique. It's going to happen as sure as the sunset, so play whatever kind of strings you want. Leveling a fretless fingerboard is easier than leveling/dressing frets, takes just a little time, and I imagine should be cheaper to have done in a shop to boot.

I find it helps, out on the lower end of the scale (toward the nut), to buddy up my ring and pinkie fingers like I do on upright. On up the scale, say above the seventh 'fret', I revert to a one finger per 'fret' style. I don't know if that's generally advisable, just that it works for me.

Finally, make CERTAIN to set up (or have set up, if you lack the tools or expertise to do it yourself) any fretless very meticulously, you'll want a good low action at least at first, and that will require work to achieve on virtually any stock fretless bass.

 

[Mushroo]

Be like Jaco.View attachment 3707884

Also note Jaco's use of 1-2-4 fingering.