Best Approach to Fretless

[Lagado]

And this brings to mind another point often made, that I never understand...at all. Something like: 'You don't have to look at the fingerboard of a fretless, you just use your ears to stay in tune'.

Well, how the heck are you going to do that, if you're often playing a bunch of eighth, or sixteenth notes? How is there any time to 'ear your way' into intonation, when you're only on the note for a split second.

If someone can explain how this can be done, I'd love to hear it.

Agreed. You hear all about pitch correction, assuming you have time to do that. While the intonation is slip sliding away...

 

[Lagado]

Hear come the judge ​

No one is innocent, but some are far more guilty than others...

 

[Tom Bomb]

Paganini — case in point ​

 

[Lagado]

Paganini — case in point ​

Whole other animal, different instrument, different scale and playing position.

 

[Tom Bomb]

Perhaps. But the man's very guilty. You know what I'm sayin'?

Still, I bet he'd tear it up, on a fretless, given half a chance ​

 

[Les Fret]

And this brings to mind another point often made, that I never understand...at all. Something like: 'You don't have to look at the fingerboard of a fretless, you just use your ears to stay in tune'.

Well, how the heck are you going to do that, if you're often playing a bunch of eighth, or sixteenth notes? How is there any time to 'ear your way' into intonation, when you're only on the note for a split second.

If someone can explain how this can be done, I'd love to hear it.

Good question. In that case you rely on a good hand position so that the fingers fall on the correct tone automatically. If you do speedy licks you cannot correct every note by ear. There is no time for correction by ear as you said.

Technical stuff that jumps all over the neck like in that video is almost impossible without looking at the fretboard. You can do that for practice but not on stage.

 

[MVE]

Playing in tune (or out of tune for that matter) is a function of BOTH pitch AND TIME, as our perception of pitch takes time to register in our brains and this time is different for everyone.
A note that is very out of tune played for a moment, will not sound as out of tune as a note that is just a tiny bit out of tune held for a long period.

Think about it, when was the last time you tried to tune your bass while playing 16th note runs at 180 bpm???

 

[Lagado]

Perhaps. But the man's very guilty. You know what I'm sayin'?

Still, I bet he'd tear it up, on a fretless, given half a chance ​

 

[Papageno]

And this brings to mind another point often made, that I never understand...at all. Something like: 'You don't have to look at the fingerboard of a fretless, you just use your ears to stay in tune'.

Well, how the heck are you going to do that, if you're often playing a bunch of eighth, or sixteenth notes? How is there any time to 'ear your way' into intonation, when you're only on the note for a split second.

If someone can explain how this can be done, I'd love to hear it.

How do you think violin and cello players play in tune: ear and muscle memory. But that is the result of years of training. They do not play a fretless instrument occasionally, as some BG players do.

And they play many more notes than bassists (on BG or DB) usually play.

 

[Mushroo]

The caterpillar looks at the butterfly and says, that's impossible! I'll never be able to do that!!

 

[nonohmic]

How do you think violin and cello players play in tune: ear and muscle memory. But that is the result of years of training. They do not play a fretless instrument occasionally, as some BG players do.

And they play many more notes than bassists (on BG or DB) usually play.

This point has been made innumerable times but here we go again;

Classical instruments are held close to the body and the necks have a contour which help to indicate position. Electric fretless bass is a flat neck held away from the body which makes it more difficult to intonate. Not impossible, but more difficult.

 

[Les Fret]

This point has been made innumerable times but here we go again;

Classical instruments are held close to the body and the necks have a contour which help to indicate position. Electric fretless bass is a flat neck held away from the body which makes it more difficult to intonate. Not impossible, but more difficult.

That's why we have markers and lines. More easy than violin or cello!

 

[Papageno]

That's why we have markers and lines. More easy than violin or cello!

Absolutely, markers and lines can be immensely helpful to find our way on this long and almost featureless neck, but because our finger pads are soft and much fatter than the accuracy that is required for good intonation, they can provide only a first approxition. The fine-tuning has to be controlled by the ear and some (visually almost imperceptible) roll of the finger pads.

 

[coyote1]

That comes with practice. Tens, perhaps hundreds, of thousands of violin, viola, cello and bass orchestral players have managed it across the centuries. Perhaps even millions of such players.

You practice the instrument until your hand automatically knows, based on the upcoming sequence of notes, which fingerboard position to inhabit. Given that you are looking at the page while also looking at the conductor, and that viola is right up against your cheek, how can you possibly be looking at the fingerboard?

Same applies here to fretless electric bass. It’s just that most such players grew up in the rock era, and never spent enough practice time to truly be one with the instrument. It certainly applies to me! I am, at age 55+, making an effort to correct that. I don’t practice nearly as much as I should to accomplish it, but when I practice I am indeed practicing not looking at the fingerboard. My ear hears when I’m off, and I adjust.

And this brings to mind another point often made, that I never understand...at all. Something like: 'You don't have to look at the fingerboard of a fretless, you just use your ears to stay in tune'.

Well, how the heck are you going to do that, if you're often playing a bunch of eighth, or sixteenth notes? How is there any time to 'ear your way' into intonation, when you're only on the note for a split second.

If someone can explain how this can be done, I'd love to hear it.

Agreed. You hear all about pitch correction, assuming you have time to do that. While the intonation is slip sliding away...

 

[SteveCS]

...and never spent enough practice time to truly be one with the instrument.
...

Bingo!

 

[Lagado]

That comes with practice. Tens, perhaps hundreds, of thousands of violin, viola, cello and bass orchestral players have managed it across the centuries. Perhaps even millions of such players.

They are different instruments with different scales and different playing positions.

 

[Lagado]

Bingo!

Tell Willis that. See what he would have to say about it.

 

[Lagado]

Why do all the pro fretless players scan the board? Because they don't wear rose tinted spectacles, they don't have the cognitive dissonance that tells them making things harder for themselves, is easier... They realize the ridiculousness of that blinkered notion.

 

[coyote1]

They are different instruments with different scales and different playing positions.

Really? I had no idea. I thought the bass viol was exactly the same size as the violin.
Thanks for shedding light on this mystery.

Has nothing to do with the point at hand though.

 

[Lagado]

Really? I had no idea. I thought the bass viol was exactly the same size as the violin.
Thanks for shedding light on this mystery.

Has nothing to do with the point at hand though.

Of course it does... They are different scales for a start. I guess you didn't notice with the blindfold and all...