Greg Clinkingbeard
Commercial User
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Double Bass Best cab for Upright?
- Thread starter Telsonater
- Start date
I have Genelec powered studio monitors in my living room (rather small ones). I sometimes have pondered if anyone has gone that way for musical instrument amplification. I realise it would be heavy, expensive, and perhaps not ideal.
Greg,
Something I did not know, but an Acoustic Image Head with a Andy's Low B1, regardless of the version, gives you a much more forward sounding rig, then AI's own cabinets that are somewhat room dependent. Of all the smaller cabinets I've run through, the B1's are stellar sounding for the size of the box.
Ric
I have a chance to pick up a Acme B 2 locally. How are those for upright and some EB. I was going to drive it with a BH250 I also have the Fdeck preamp.
Thanks
Thanks
Greg Clinkingbeard
Commercial User
I've never used one but know a guy who runs one with a LMII and sounds really good. I think it would benefit from more like 400-500 watts. I have run 300 to my pair of B1 cabs and they want more.
The BH250 does not have enough juice to make the B2 go where you want it to. Sure, sound will come out, but if you feed it with something closer to 600 watts, you'll have a completely different very very very bass experience. Oddly enough, B2s often go for less on the resale market than B1s. I spoke with the guys at the Guitar Center yesterday and they have a pair of B2s ( somewhere in Texas I believe) for $300 each, and they will ship.
As with everything, do your best to access and try out a lot of different cabs. There are dozens of great cabinets just for us bass nerds on the market today, all with lots of options to make anyone happy. I tried out about 15 different models in the last year and was very surprised how much difference there is between them all and how every recommendation was very dependent on the playing style and gig needs. Some of what folks told me would be perfect for my needs literally resulted in about 30 seconds out of the box and then stuffed back in and back up in the classifieds, and others that folks gave the thumbs down were very nice cabs. The B1s were something that was so far down my list that I didn't even consider them. One day I would up short and a friend lent me his pair for a challenging gig and it was a game changer for me.
As with everything, do your best to access and try out a lot of different cabs. There are dozens of great cabinets just for us bass nerds on the market today, all with lots of options to make anyone happy. I tried out about 15 different models in the last year and was very surprised how much difference there is between them all and how every recommendation was very dependent on the playing style and gig needs. Some of what folks told me would be perfect for my needs literally resulted in about 30 seconds out of the box and then stuffed back in and back up in the classifieds, and others that folks gave the thumbs down were very nice cabs. The B1s were something that was so far down my list that I didn't even consider them. One day I would up short and a friend lent me his pair for a challenging gig and it was a game changer for me.
B2's sound great, but because they are full range cabinets with extended low end 41Hz they tend to be very power hungry. You also have to consider that since they have a larger speaker surface area they are more prone to feed back then the B1. The BH 250 would be seriously underpowered driving a Low B2. Just my take.
Ric
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Thanks guys I will keep looking. I have a AI Contra series II and was looking for a cabinet I could use with that or my BH250.
Probably because their distribution is limited in the U.S., there is very little coverage/discussion on TalkBass of what has become my absolutely favourite cabinets, for both upright and bass guitar--the English-made, BareFaced Bass cabinets made by Alex Claber's company out of Brighton, England. Their website is http://barefacedbass.com and it is full of helpful information about the design, construction and performance of their cabinets. I have a Generation 2 Midget T (now discontinued) with 1-12" speaker and a tweeter that I keep as my only speaker at my U.S. home in Houston. In Scotland, I have a Generation 3 Super Midget (1-12" plus tweeter) in a compact package that weighs only 23 pounds, and a Big Baby 2 which weighs 29 pounds and has a 1-12" and a horn. Both cabinets are small and compact, have amazing off-axis dispersion that allows them to be heard all over a large stage as well into the far corners of a room, are squeaky clean, sound great with both upright and bass guitar, and can get incredibly LOUD if required with no farting, distortion or feedback. The Super Midget is small enough to fit into a Bass Cajon bag and is my cabinet of choice for small jazz gigs although it can get plenty loud enough to handle a full big band and can hold its own playing bass guitar in a loud pop rock band as well. The Big Baby 2 has a fuller bottom end and sounds a bit richer. I tend to bring the Big Baby to theatre gigs as my stage monitor although it's dispersion is such that the horn players on the opposite side of the stage can hear me as well. I also use it for louder jazz gigs and doubling gigs. These two cabinets are designed to work together, and in a stack, they can get stupid loud, but still sound wonderful at lower volumes on acoustic as well. I drive them with either an Acoustic Image Clarus or a Series III Focus. Here is a link to a thread on the Bass Guitar side about these speakers, http://www.talkbass.com/threads/official-barefaced-bass-cab-club.868480/, although you might want to skip the earlier parts of the thread since the Generation 3 cabs are what's on offer now.
Erik Hansen
Scotland
Erik Hansen
Scotland
I see this has turned into an Acme thread... Acme makes good stuff; no doubt about it. They are essentially hand-made cabs, and have amazing low-frequency response. They are incredibly inefficient however, which there's no getting around. The sensitivity of an Acme SII Low B1 is about 90 dB SPL at 1 meter, which is very low. Having 600 watts available to drive a Low B1, is like having 60 watts available to drive a cab with a sensitivity of 100 dB SPL at 1 meter (and there are several of those available). This is just simple physics. With speakers you don't get something for nothing, and Acme has to play by the same rules of physics as everyone else. If you like the sound of the Low B1, that's great. I am a former Low B1 owner, and now a happy owner of much more efficient cab that can easily reproduce 30Hz. Fortunately we all like something different, so there is really no one "best" cab.
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My favorites, notice that I didn't say the best,are single 112's. You can find 112 designs that are compact, lightweight, with sufficient power handling and frequency response that suits the upright.
My current 112 is a discontinued Bergantino EX112ER, their tweeterless design. They pop up in the classifieds sometimes and are worth a listen. I would like to know if anyone has tried a Baer 112 with an upright- it looks like a contender.
I've played through many many many amps and speakers over the years. Much depends on your needs. I've always liked a very fast sound, not big and sloppy. For many years my old Walter Woods through a box with 9 - 4.5in speakers was the thing. before that, in the old days I used an Ampeg B15N with a JBL D140. Later, a number of single or double 10 boxes.
The Polytone with one 15 worked for a while as did the GK 150mb because the box was so small, the speaker spoke very quickly with no boomyness.
Some of the newer 1x12 boxes work well for upright like the Bergantino 1x12 boxes or the Epifani 1x10 boxes. Lots of lows and tone for their size. In the last years I've had good success with the Berg AE210 box using an Acoustic Image Focus I amp. Lots of headroom and good eq. However, the Baer ML112 box is killin me. Its a 1x12 and a 6in mid driver box.
To be open and honest, I've R&D'd this box for Roger Baer to get it to work well for upright and electric bass. The 6in driver has plenty of highs for bass and sounds quite organic as opposed to a horn. The ML112 seems to get stupid loud before it feeds back but sounds wonderful at low volume. This is again because of the 6in driver. The ML112 is small, light, loud, and efficient, with great tone for upright. There are some great boxes out there. I find the ML112 to be one of the best.
+1 Bob, from my perspective the older Acme Low B Cabinets, and the Euphonic Audio VL Series Cabinets, are power hungry, because of their extended low frequency response. When the Acme's and EA VL's were first introduced,
they were something of a game changer. Having used both the Low B2, and EA VL 208, what I've found is that the bass response they reproduce, feels really good to the bassists, and perhaps the rest of the band, who are in close proximity
to the cabinet (let's say 10 feet or less) and the first few rows of the house. Past that, as you move further into the audience, that low end starts to diminish rapidly. So in that way, they are very comfortable to the player, but the net effect
is that they take a great deal more power than my Audio Kinesis TC-112 that has a much more reasonable low end cut off, better sensitivity, and can be powered by any 500 watt micro amplifier. That said I've heard lots of players
through the Acme Low B1 sound really nice, but I'm always sitting close to the band and near the bassist.
Ric
PS. I think the Low B1's are popular with DB players, because they are
small, relatively light weight, and have that extended bass response, that add's
low end warmth to the sound. If you're using them a small to mid sized club,
that sound is heard in the audience because the patrons are closer to the band.
Just my take. For me personally, there are better options out their now, like
the MAS 4x5 and the Audio Kinesis TC-112.
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I love love love my Aguilar SL112's for upright. The tweeters are really musical, and since I have two of em, I can handle a lot of different rooms/stages. Lots of compliments from the band members too. -DK
has anyone had experience with a Bergantino NV15? I play EUB but keep looking at one. Haven't made the 45 min trip to try one out yet but seems like it would be nice. Sealed cab would require some wattage though.
I've been real happy with a rig I cobbled together from various components (see photo). On top is an AI Clarus 2R, then the Acme B1, and on the bottom is an Eden EX112. The rig sounds great with upright & electric and when I'm doing lower volume gigs, I just use the B1.
The AI head is great when you're doubling because it has two independent channels allowing you to set volume and EQ for each instrument. Though the head can handle it, the only thing I would change is making the cabs 8ohms instead of 4.
Here's to achieving our quest for "the sound"!
The AI head is great when you're doubling because it has two independent channels allowing you to set volume and EQ for each instrument. Though the head can handle it, the only thing I would change is making the cabs 8ohms instead of 4.
Here's to achieving our quest for "the sound"!
Good question. With both cabs hooked up, I find that the volume level hits a certain loudness factor (not quite sure how else to describe it) rather quickly when turning up the level. I'd like it to be a little more nuanced and have a more gradual increase. I think having the cabs at 8ohms would achieve this. With just the Acme B1 hooked up, it's perfect. Can only hang with low to medium volume gigs though.
Has anyone tried the LDS 2x8 cabs? There is a sweet looking pair in the classifieds right now that have me thinking...
Greg Clinkingbeard
Commercial User
Those are less than an hour from me and seem to be priced on the low side. I was tempted to check them out but don't need them. I think they would make excellent DB boxes, aside from the weight.
Regarding driving a pair of 4 ohm cabinets, it may be a tough call now with the class D amps which deliver maximum output at 4 ohms. My series I Clarus is 200 at 4 or 300 at 2 ohms.
I'm getting a series 4 Clarus which uses the ICE 125ASX module which isn't rated at 2 ohms. Rick must do some magic to make it work but still lists the 4 ohm and 2 ohm output as the same. He has my unit now, putting the magic smoke back in. I suspect he'll just put in a new board.
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