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Best musical advice you ever got

Is there anyone could help me?
Autumn leaves:
Cm7 - F7 - BbM7 - EbM7 - Am7(b5) - D7(b9) - Gm6

my teacher says there are two key center here: Bb,Gm and that Gm starts from Am7(b5) but I disagree as I think it starts from D7(b9).

Am7(b5) is part of Bb scale, in particular the following degree: VIminor5b.

As it is always complicated to analyze tunes, do you know any programs can do that? I have seen an application for iPhone (tonal center finder) but I don't have one ....
 
Is there anyone could help me?
Autumn leaves:
Cm7 - F7 - BbM7 - EbM7 - Am7(b5) - D7(b9) - Gm6

my teacher says there are two key center here: Bb,Gm and that Gm starts from Am7(b5) but I disagree as I think it starts from D7(b9).

Am7(b5) is part of Bb scale, in particular the following degree: VIminor5b.

As it is always complicated to analyze tunes, do you know any programs can do that? I have seen an application for iPhone (tonal center finder) but I don't have one ....

The Am7 b5 is the vii in Bb, not the vi, hence the flat 5 cuz its a locrian sound. But listen to the song and it will become immediately apparent that its:
Bb: ii, V, I, IV, shift to G: ii, V, I.

This fits the color of the chords, and always use occams razor on analysis.

Hope this helps!
 
I think of it more simply as a cycling on 4ths, all in one scale:

4 - 7 - 3 - 6 - 2 - 5 - 1

It's different than your teacher is suggesting, but the Gm is the relative minor to Bb, and the scale is the same just with different starting positions.




Is there anyone could help me?
Autumn leaves:
Cm7 - F7 - BbM7 - EbM7 - Am7(b5) - D7(b9) - Gm6

my teacher says there are two key center here: Bb,Gm and that Gm starts from Am7(b5) but I disagree as I think it starts from D7(b9).

Am7(b5) is part of Bb scale, in particular the following degree: VIminor5b.

As it is always complicated to analyze tunes, do you know any programs can do that? I have seen an application for iPhone (tonal center finder) but I don't have one ....
 
I believe it means give each rest the same weight that you'd give a note. The space between the notes is just as important (or more important) as the notes themselves.

I had this in my head while practicing the other night and was really concentrating on "playing" the rests with feeling. My girlfriend even noticed how much more appealing the sound was. Listen to Pink Floyd's "Echoes" right at the big time signature change. The rest IS the groove. Roger Waters makes a fine example of a well-played rest throughout Floyd's catalogue.
 
"Play with people better than you" - many people

My advice = "Also play with people worse than you." Not out of arrogance, but it really helped me transition from a novice student to an experienced "teacher". I'm not a great bassist but playing different roles in different bands really expanded my horizons. At the same time I was in three bands; in the first, I was the youngest and least experienced, always absorbing new things and songs; in the second I was the most experienced at playing live, and was able to get a lot of gigs and give tips to an up-and-coming singer/songwriter; and in the third I was in a backing role, solely supporting the pocket with no input and very little learning. All three situations helped me greatly in different ways.

And you don't always appreciate how much you know and how much you've experienced until you play with people who are nervous, scared, or insecure, and can pass your knowledge, support, and tips onto them.
 
http://www.talkbass.com/forum/f67/how-much-transposing-enough-885765/#post12691368

Neon Scribe said:
"The melody of the song must fit the vocal range of the singer. If you don't know the word, look it up: tessitura. If you're accompanying a classical singer, there's no transposing. Singers choose material or productions choose singers based on suitability of range. If you're accompanying pre-rock popular vocal music, e.g. cabaret or vocal jazz, the singer chooses the key. Those songs get performed in many different keys. You'd better be ready to transpose to the key your singer wants, but you aren't trying to sound exactly like a particular recording. If you're in a (rock-era) cover band and the goal is to sound as much like the original recording, you would be wise to stick to the original key. That means you should choose your material to fit your vocalist, or choose your vocalist to fit your material. If you're in an original band or a band playing familiar songs with your own interpretation, you can transpose any way you like, but the performance is yours, not a copy of someone else's.

The OP is addressing the case of a cover band where the goal is to simulate the original sound, but the vocalist can't really do it in the original key. I tend to agree with the OP that it no longer sounds like the original. Something seems "off". It might make me feel a little edgy. You don't need perfect pitch to notice it. The bandleader has to make a compromise. His customers demand certain songs, and they demand that all the songs sound as much like the original as possible. There's really no other way to go in this case. Most of the audience will be happy with the compromise -- it's a wedding reception, they're drinking and dancing -- but those who are listening closely (and that probably includes the band!) might just be put a little on edge. Such is the life of a working musician."

Carl H. said:
OK, A little life experience here. I play violin. I play it professionally, but I went to school for Percussion and Saxophone. When my first kid was born I quit the whole full time pro thing to spend time at home.

Back in school I took improv classes on sax and had to learn the licks in all 12 keys, it is not a simple procedure. All those keys are not easy to navigate at speed equally in all keys. The guitar and bass players just moved their hand position and tried not to look sleepy.

I have done arrangements for different groups ranging from string quartet to symphony orchestra and have a fairly well developed ear.

On bowed stringed acoustic instruments, the difference from F# minor to G minor is a fairly significant change in instrument color. It has to do with how the instrument is built acoustically. On a sax or electric bass I do not hear such a significant change. In fact I hear almost no change other than the pitch having moved. Believe me, the other members of my quartet hated playing in F# minor, they asked for F or G minor instead, so I wrote the piece out in both F and G minor (Finale is AWESOME for that). After reading it in those keys the group decided it was best in F# because of the sounds coming from the instrument.

I play principal clarinet in the local symphony orchestra and often times I am called on to play clarinets other than the usual Bb clarinet. If it is a small lick often I'll just transpose it to save on having to carry instruments and to keep the number of reeds in play at any given time to a minimum. It never sounds quite right on the wrong instrument, but it is such a small difference that most of the time nobody is aware that I am playing it "wrong". However if the piece was written for clarinet voiced in a particular key, you had better believe there is a significant difference in how it plays and sounds when transposing it to a different instrument/key. If it is an important part only the correct instrument/key will do.


There are times when it does make a difference, but with mostly electric instruments and a singer, not so much. I've been in a couple bands since my "retirement" and honestly do not see that it is much of a big deal to accommodate the singer. As was said by someone else, if the singer sounds weak, that is how the band will be remembered.

Do what it takes to sound your best.

Jive1 said:
It depends on the song, but for most cases I'll always give the vocalist the prerogative since it's the most limited instrument.

If I don't like the way my bass plays or sounds, I can get another one or I can have several around for the sounds I want to create. If I want more lower range from my bass, I can get a 5 string. If I want more higher range, I can get a 6 string or piccolo bass. If I'm still not getting the range I want, I can get an octave pedal. If I want a gritter tone, I can add an overdrive pedal. If I want it cleaner, I can change pickups or preamp. If I want a different timbre, I can use EQ, different gauges of strings, pickups, preamp, amplifier, etc.

The issue is that for vocalists, the above options aren't available like they are for bassists. Sure, I can take lessons and practice to increase my range, but I will hit a peak. I can never sing like Michael Jackson or Ann Wilson without a falsetto and sounding ridiculous in the process. Sure I could use effects like an octave or auto-tune, but I would sound ridiculous singing Don't Stop Believing like T-Pain. If I have a voice like Rick Astley, it would be ridiculous for me to sing a Led Zeppelin tune. Vocalists have a limited range and timbre, so that's why they get the prerogative. The reality is that a good band will play to the strengths and limitations of the players. If the singer can really nail the song doing it a whole step down, but do it mediocre in the original key, why wouldn't you transpose? There's also the issue of endurance. If a song will tire out a voice in one key, but it's easy in another key, you should choose the easier key, especially if the singer has to sing 40 songs that night. Look at it this way: Say you are playing a G on the third fret of the E and want to go to the major 3rd (B) on the 7th fret. You could make the stretch with your pinky, or you could play the next string down at the 2nd fret. There's going to be smaller differences in timbre between those 2 fret positions, but if you're doing G major stuff all night, then your hand will get much more tired doing an all-nighter making the stretch instead of just playing the same note on the A string.

The important thing is that the band sounds good, and that means you have to include the vocalist as well. Maybe it sounds better tuned a 1/2 step down or in drop D, but if the vocals can't hit it, then you need to either transpose or drop the tune. I can play Don't Stop Believing in the original key, but I don't have even close to Steve Perry's range, so I'll have to do it in C. The difference is one key will make a crowd favorite FUBAR, and the other won't destroy the small amount of dignity still in that song. The other thing is transitions from one song to another. If you have to switch instruments, retune, etc. between songs you can disrupt the flow of the show and potentially kill momentum. If you have the crowd rocking, one of the worst things you can do causing dead air by retuning.

My only exception to giving the vocalist prerogative on key is if a signature instrumental part of a song can't be played in the transposed key. For example, take SRV's Pride and Joy. The intro is done in E or Eb depending on your tuning. It relies on the open E string for the intro. You can play it in F by capoing it, but you can't do it in D with a capo without it sounding way too high. Detuning that much may mess with a guitar setup, or take too long between songs, so your choice is the either pick a key that the both the vocalist and guitarist can sing and play the intro or drop the tune from the repertoire.
 
It's not necessarily musical advice, but the former Arsenal player Tony Adams once said;
'Play for the name on the front of the shirt, and they'll remember the name on the back.'
Pretty sound advice to apply to any team situation, especially, for me anyway, a band.
 
Used to play guitar. My teacher used to tell sing what you play. Best advice ever. Even now if it's only me saying bah-dum-da-dum when doing a simple bass line it's the best thing ever. I've learned to not make it obvious and it really does help in so many ways. I enjoy the music more and it makes me more fluid. It also makes me less rigid so I move to the bass subtly. Great thread with some great advice being posted.
 
I had this in my head while practicing the other night and was really concentrating on "playing" the rests with feeling. My girlfriend even noticed how much more appealing the sound was. Listen to Pink Floyd's "Echoes" right at the big time signature change. The rest IS the groove. Roger Waters makes a fine example of a well-played rest throughout Floyd's catalogue.

SO true ...
 

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