I'm a newbie on fretless, just acquired an Ibanez SR370EF, lined fretless. I found I could play it out of the box without too many issues. I have very good muscle memory on the fretboard, so I just adjusted my position. I did look at the fret lines much more than I would normally look at a fretted board, normally I only look when making a major shift in position, just to make sure I land at the right position. Therefore my playing on fretless was slower than usual. That's not my issue or my question here. Issue is when I went back to fretted I started hitting bad notes. Playing the fretless kinda messed up my muscle memory. So my question for those of you who have straddled both instruments successfully, is "how do you best spit up your practice so as not to mess up both instruments?" Should I practice on both each day, or should I set a day or two aside and only do the fretless? Which works best?
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Best practice routine for learning fretless, for fretted player
- Thread starter BassicJazzy
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start playing fretless. never quit. good luck! 
Stick to fretless for a while. Record yourself -- your intonation might not be as good as you think. If you're finding it hard to shake the habit of looking at the board, practice with the lights off. Not joking about that, I found it helped me a lot.
Odds are pretty good you'll always find yourself flubbing a little when switching between them. After steady practice on fretless for a while you might find it easier to switch between them than it is now.
Odds are pretty good you'll always find yourself flubbing a little when switching between them. After steady practice on fretless for a while you might find it easier to switch between them than it is now.
Yes, i'm going with the consensus. Dive in FULLY on the fretless. It's kind of like learning a new language. Immerse yourself. Speak only that new language. At least for the first six months. Don't worry about some early clumsiness. We all did.
Also, later on, concentrate on your vibrato technique. Check some YouTube videos. But give some time to your initial introduction. It will take some time, but don't give up. I went total cold turkey with learning fretless with no lines and yes, I had to take the time.
Good luck.,but have fun. (lol....it wasn't total total cold turkey. I still had the dots on the side of the neck.
)
Also, later on, concentrate on your vibrato technique. Check some YouTube videos. But give some time to your initial introduction. It will take some time, but don't give up. I went total cold turkey with learning fretless with no lines and yes, I had to take the time.
Good luck.,but have fun. (lol....it wasn't total total cold turkey. I still had the dots on the side of the neck.
)
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I carried over a technique when learning to play trombone and then upright...I played in the dark. It might sound weird but it worked for me. I found when one of my sensory inputs (my eyes) were out of the equation, it was easier for me to hear intonation and gain muscle memory.
I actually started learning this from a music teacher I had when I was in elementary school when I was learning trombone...there's no fretlines on a trombone so one has to develop a good ear for intonation. Over the years, it carried over into many aspects of my playing other instruments, including, but not limited to, URB and fretless bass.
And of course lots of practice.
I actually started learning this from a music teacher I had when I was in elementary school when I was learning trombone...there's no fretlines on a trombone so one has to develop a good ear for intonation. Over the years, it carried over into many aspects of my playing other instruments, including, but not limited to, URB and fretless bass.
And of course lots of practice.
start playing fretless. never quit. good luck!
This. I picked up my fretless after a month of playing fretted and I was rusty af.
I think fretless is similar in opinion to slide guitar playing. Just get into full time. Emerse yourself. Embrace sucking lol. It's how to get better. I learned without lines and understanding finger spacing as you move up the neck ( how your fingers feel/look to one another) was helpful...especially past the 12th fret. Getting your hands to feel comfortable playing octaves helped a lot. You will notice your ear, not simply your hand position tells you how correct you are. Your fingers will feel like spider legs as they have to be more precise. I guess a real precision bass is really a fretless.
Play along to songs you know. Again, embrace sucking.
Best thing I found -- which btw works wonderfully when used hand-in-hand with the "Play In The Dark" advice several folks have already offered -- is to play along with another instrument: A recording, or a loop, or a drone, or a fellow musician*, something that is going to provide a pitch reference that you can compare your playing against. Doesn't do you any good to play with the lights out if you can't hear when your intonation is off, and the easiest way to hear when your intonation is off is when you're playing in the context of harmonizing with another instrument.
*just so long as your fellow musician isn't playing a "variable intonation" instrument like trombone or pedal steel guitar or violin or another fretless bass
*just so long as your fellow musician isn't playing a "variable intonation" instrument like trombone or pedal steel guitar or violin or another fretless bass
Don't worry about looking and don't have an inferiority that upright players may consciously or unconsciously throw at you because
The fretboard of a fretless is further away, and and your sightlines is not as perpendicular as an upright
Less reference points
Smaller scale so you have to be more precise
Resist the temptation of mwah and slides and vibrato for now. Try to master playing it like a fretted would sound.
Work on ear training for intervals starting with octaves, fifths and thirds. Use open strings as reference as much as possible
You do not necessarily have to lock the fretted but use it as a tone and intonation reference but commit to the fretless. Do not give up easily.
Do not play in the dark unless you can play in the light in tune consistently, any key. Jaco, Gary Willis and Pino looked and still look at the fretboard. Playing in the dark may be a good thing later on when you are gigging but it's putting the cart before the horse, It's more a bragging rights thing. If you are singer I can understand, but looking at the fretboard is not a ding on your skills,. If you are a singer you need to simplify your lines.
I would rather have the ability to play more keys in tune and still be looking rather than play in the dark for only 2 to 3 keys.
Lines do not make you feel any more unskilled on the fretless
Practice single string scales all the way tp the end of the board.
Enjoy and good luck,
The fretboard of a fretless is further away, and and your sightlines is not as perpendicular as an upright
Less reference points
Smaller scale so you have to be more precise
Resist the temptation of mwah and slides and vibrato for now. Try to master playing it like a fretted would sound.
Work on ear training for intervals starting with octaves, fifths and thirds. Use open strings as reference as much as possible
You do not necessarily have to lock the fretted but use it as a tone and intonation reference but commit to the fretless. Do not give up easily.
Do not play in the dark unless you can play in the light in tune consistently, any key. Jaco, Gary Willis and Pino looked and still look at the fretboard. Playing in the dark may be a good thing later on when you are gigging but it's putting the cart before the horse, It's more a bragging rights thing. If you are singer I can understand, but looking at the fretboard is not a ding on your skills,. If you are a singer you need to simplify your lines.
I would rather have the ability to play more keys in tune and still be looking rather than play in the dark for only 2 to 3 keys.
Lines do not make you feel any more unskilled on the fretless
Practice single string scales all the way tp the end of the board.
Enjoy and good luck,
To play fretless in tune you have to develop an intuitive sense of how the spacing between notes changes as you play up the neck. In order to facilitate this, you need to play the fretless exclusively.
I never could get comfortable on fretless BG. My theory is it's because I used on finger per fret (OFPF) and my hand is not big enough to use OFPF with fretless BG. On fretted BG I can fudge the reach and play between the frets.
I switched between fretted BG, acoustic upright bass (UB)with a pickup, and electric upright bass (EUB). Switching between BG and one of the UBs, never seemed to bother my intonation. As long as I was functioning as rhythm player I hear well enough to correct intonation on the fly; so I could play all three with relatively good intonation.
There were circumstances where I found it pretty much impossible to play with good intonation on both the UB and EUB. Part of my job was playing UB in a classical style. For this type of work, the bass does not stand on it's own. Rather it blends with other low frequency instruments like tuba, bass clarinet, bassoon, etc. IME you frequently can't hear well enough to correct intonation problems, so it's necessary to have your hand really dialed in. Between the slight variation in string length and string height, I found it impossible to switch between UB and EUB without jacking my intonation for classical playing on the UB. My solution was the put the EUB away a few days before concert band tour prep and practice Simandl etudes on UB so my intonation would settle.
For context, the string length on my UB and EUB was approximately 42 inches. For me it's a problem switching between instruments with slightly different intonation characteristic when I am required to blend with a larger bass section. I basically have to choose one to play exclusively for awhile, so my hand can become calibrated.
Shedding to dial in your intonation is likely to be an ongoing requirement. In order to play fretless well, it's likely you will need to practice regularly rather than setting it aside for extended period of time while you play a fretted bass.
I never could get comfortable on fretless BG. My theory is it's because I used on finger per fret (OFPF) and my hand is not big enough to use OFPF with fretless BG. On fretted BG I can fudge the reach and play between the frets.
I switched between fretted BG, acoustic upright bass (UB)with a pickup, and electric upright bass (EUB). Switching between BG and one of the UBs, never seemed to bother my intonation. As long as I was functioning as rhythm player I hear well enough to correct intonation on the fly; so I could play all three with relatively good intonation.
There were circumstances where I found it pretty much impossible to play with good intonation on both the UB and EUB. Part of my job was playing UB in a classical style. For this type of work, the bass does not stand on it's own. Rather it blends with other low frequency instruments like tuba, bass clarinet, bassoon, etc. IME you frequently can't hear well enough to correct intonation problems, so it's necessary to have your hand really dialed in. Between the slight variation in string length and string height, I found it impossible to switch between UB and EUB without jacking my intonation for classical playing on the UB. My solution was the put the EUB away a few days before concert band tour prep and practice Simandl etudes on UB so my intonation would settle.
For context, the string length on my UB and EUB was approximately 42 inches. For me it's a problem switching between instruments with slightly different intonation characteristic when I am required to blend with a larger bass section. I basically have to choose one to play exclusively for awhile, so my hand can become calibrated.
Shedding to dial in your intonation is likely to be an ongoing requirement. In order to play fretless well, it's likely you will need to practice regularly rather than setting it aside for extended period of time while you play a fretted bass.
I started off playing fretless from day 1, so please take this with that in mind. For what it is worth, my advice woud be to set the fretted bass aside for the time being and practice 100% on the fretless. There are lots of things that require a different approach and mindset to playing a regular fretted instrument. Intonation should be a function of hand-shape and posture, not chasing pitch through finger wiggling. So focus on getting the spatial relationships between adjacent notes ingrained. There are lots of other things to do - too many to mention here, but I will offer this:
Whatever you are practicing, aim to do it without vibrato and corrective slides. Whilst vibrato and corrective glisses can (and will) be used in performance emergencies, the OBJECTIVE is to practice hitting each note in tune first time every time. If you practice getting close and following up with an adjustment or covering up with vibrato, that is all you will ever do. Vibrato and glissando are musical devices, not sticking plasters... YMMV
I got a fretless recently, a lot is muscle memory. But the biggest is ear, don’t look at the board, listen. Intervals chords will help you, if not start singing them to help
Play with other people. You’ll hear it when you are slightly off. Don’t be afraid to look at the side dots(or fret markers, if you can see them), especially for the first note of the song
For the "play in the dark" method, what do you use as reference? Do you play to known songs, chords, drones or do you play open strings in between?
I'm asking as I think my intonation is usually "good enough" when playing together with piano etc. But if I do play in the dark without any reference and only using non-open strings, I won't notice if my intonation shifts half a halftone down or up during a song... I don't have absolute pitch, apparently.
When gigging, I certainly do look on my fretboard more often than on fretted bass, but that's OK in my book.
I'm asking as I think my intonation is usually "good enough" when playing together with piano etc. But if I do play in the dark without any reference and only using non-open strings, I won't notice if my intonation shifts half a halftone down or up during a song... I don't have absolute pitch, apparently.
When gigging, I certainly do look on my fretboard more often than on fretted bass, but that's OK in my book.
For me, transitioning smoothly between fretted and fretless just came with repetition.
I started playing fretless not long after I started with fretted bass (maybe 6 months or so) so my habits on fretted weren’t that ingrained yet.
My approach was to practice everything on both instruments. Sometimes that meant splitting a practice session in half and other times it meant alternating days. In time, I didn’t have to think about it but it was a little clumsy going back and forth at first.
Even though the only difference between fretted and fretless is the presence or absence of frets, I’ve always considered them to be different instruments to a certain extent. The shape of the note and the left hand technique are just different enough that I never considered them to be the same. I’ve never really thought about whether that mental separation helped to make transitioning between the two easier but it seems like it would have.
I started playing fretless not long after I started with fretted bass (maybe 6 months or so) so my habits on fretted weren’t that ingrained yet.
My approach was to practice everything on both instruments. Sometimes that meant splitting a practice session in half and other times it meant alternating days. In time, I didn’t have to think about it but it was a little clumsy going back and forth at first.
Even though the only difference between fretted and fretless is the presence or absence of frets, I’ve always considered them to be different instruments to a certain extent. The shape of the note and the left hand technique are just different enough that I never considered them to be the same. I’ve never really thought about whether that mental separation helped to make transitioning between the two easier but it seems like it would have.
Ditto on playing with others.
Regarding the side dots, you can buy larger “stick on” dots if needed. Put as many dots as you like anywhere to find your comfort zone.
Just for my own, I put a dot over the 1st position. Some necks didn’t have one. That helped me.
Was coming here to say the same. I've been playing fretless since 1999 (fretted since '84) and I go back and forth, seamlessly, sometimes not playing fretted for several months.
I bought my fretless neck in 1976. I keep trying to learn to play on frets, but my fingers hate the lumps…..and all the fret noise bothers what’s left of my brain
Jaco actually said: practice on fretted to learn fretless.
Sounds counterintuitive, but I think he was pointing out that working on accurate one finger per fret technique cleanly on fretted transfers to the fretless bass. It’s like taking the training wheels off.
Sounds counterintuitive, but I think he was pointing out that working on accurate one finger per fret technique cleanly on fretted transfers to the fretless bass. It’s like taking the training wheels off.
