• TalkBass has been independent since 1998. Add your voice.
    Create a free account to reply to discussions, view embedded media, and browse with fewer display ads.
    Join freeLog in
    Want zero display ads or expanded classifieds tools? Compare plans.

Best practice routine for learning fretless, for fretted player

Finding today while playing my fretted Jazz Plus to YouTube videos of upright jazz players that I am picking up the notes much more quickly, following their lines pretty well. Seems my ears have benefited from my short time on the fretless. I seem to be recognizing the intervals better than I did before.

Again, absolutely no problem with alignment, not hitting any bad notes on the fretted or getting any buzz. Tomorrow the Ibanez SR1350B and then I go back to the fretless for probably a week.
 
For me, I go here and run drones and listen for intonation on roots; and scale notes against chord tones for the major and minor chords

Music Drones Fantasy

then I'll open this drum machine channel in another window and write some beats, and run both windows at the same time

Drum Machine Online by VirtualDrumming

also read out of this book over and over 'cuz it's so much fun!

https://www.shermusic.com/0961470100.php

for decades ran thru Jamey Aebosold music minus one stuff [piano + drums; bass off] = mostly the chordal workbooks and blues rather than standard toons. But that's for jazzy jazz stuff. ☮️ :bassist::hyper:💚:atoz: 𝄢
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: BassicJazzy
For me, I go here and run drones and listen for intonation on roots; and scale notes against chord tones for the major and minor chords

Music Drones Fantasy

then I'll open this drum machine channel in another window and write some beats, and run both windows at the same time

Drum Machine Online by VirtualDrumming

also read out of this book over and over 'cuz it's so much fun!

https://www.shermusic.com/0961470100.php

for decades ran thru Jamey Aebosold music minus one stuff [piano + drums; bass off] = mostly the chordal workbooks and blues rather than standard toons. But that's for jazzy jazz stuff. ☮️ :bassist::hyper:💚:atoz: 𝄢
I use that same drone channel, really like it. I start with the major chords, usually something from the bottom of the cycle with more accidentals, and then work my way around to the easier keys. I work the entire diatonic scale, playing off the major and minor scales, including the modes. Then I switch to minor chords and do the same. Really a good workout.

I haven't turned my drum machine on in months. I use a Beat Buddy Mini2.

Unfortunately, I cannot read music. I lack whatever gene gives you the ability to translate notation in my head quickly enough to be practical. I can read tab pretty quickly, or Nashville Numbers, or chord charts. Gets me by, but I'll never be a pro.
 
I'm a newbie on fretless, just acquired an Ibanez SR370EF, lined fretless. I found I could play it out of the box without too many issues. I have very good muscle memory on the fretboard, so I just adjusted my position. I did look at the fret lines much more than I would normally look at a fretted board, normally I only look when making a major shift in position, just to make sure I land at the right position. Therefore my playing on fretless was slower than usual. That's not my issue or my question here. Issue is when I went back to fretted I started hitting bad notes. Playing the fretless kinda messed up my muscle memory. So my question for those of you who have straddled both instruments successfully, is "how do you best spit up your practice so as not to mess up both instruments?" Should I practice on both each day, or should I set a day or two aside and only do the fretless? Which works best?
IME playing fretless only made me more accurate on my fretted bass.
 
  • Like
Reactions: BassicJazzy
IME playing fretless only made me more accurate on my fretted bass.
Yes, I have found that to be true. Fretted seems much easier than it used to be, and no problem shifting between the two. Speed is comparable on both now, I'm not slower on the fretless anymore.

Despite rumors to the contrary the learning curve on the fretless is not steep at all. Not sure why some people quit after only a short attempt to learn it?
 
Yes, I have found that to be true. Fretted seems much easier than it used to be, and no problem shifting between the two. Speed is comparable on both now, I'm not slower on the fretless anymore.

Despite rumors to the contrary the learning curve on the fretless is not steep at all. Not sure why some people quit after only a short attempt to learn it?
Because "the learning curve on the fretless" is different for everyone.
 
Could be, I find reading pretty easy, but I learned when I was 6.
I learned to read while playing clarinet in 4th grade, but I couldn't keep up, kept getting lost, so I would mime playing and hope nobody else in band noticed. I just don't make the connection between what is on the page and my fingers quickly enough. Cannot do math in my head either, yet I was a CPA. It's a processing issue. I see things graphically, not as linear equations. I look at the fingerboard and see a web of patterns and possibilities. That mental map is in muscle memory too. I don't see or recognize those patterns in the notation though.
 
  • Like
Reactions: ProbablyTooLoud
Thank you all for your input and ideas. I probably should have clarified up front that I bought the fretless with objective that it would be a secondary instrument, not my primary bass. I want to use it to make be a better player on the fretted instrument, plus as an additional tool in my toolkit. I chose the SR370EF because it has a neck identical to my SR1350B, at least in terms of physical dimensions and general intonation. I alternate between 3 fretted basses, playing one per day, then moving on. I find this keeps me fresh and challenged. For now, I'm going to put the SR370EF into that rotation, so it will get played exclusively for one out of every 4 days. I'll see how that goes. Rich Brown has a drill outlined on his Brown'sTone YouTube channel that I will follow, which includes ideas some of you proposed, and I will use a C drone. I've used a lot of Rich's videos and they are always excellent and efficient. Fyi, I learned originally by ear, and my fingers know where to go on the fretboard (eh, maybe not so much in upper register), so it will be about adjusting intonation, and position. I may have to change finger technique on fretting hand for the upper register, since I'm more a pads player than fingertip player. I will record my playing and painfully listen to whatever crap I'm producing to try to improve technique and intonation. If all of these do not work, I will consider putting my fretted basses away for a period and focus exclusivley on the fretless, until I get it to at least a decent level. Again, though, I am always going to be a fretted player first, fretless second. By point of comparison, I leave my Ovation Elite Acoustic in its case, one of my oldest and most expensive instruments, even though I love it and tend to play it exclusively when I get into it, because if I play it for more than a matter of several days in a row exclusively, I come away ham-fisted. It wrecks my touch!

So, six months in, how is this plan working for you? How's both the fretless and fretted sounding?

Interested!

TIA
 
So, six months in, how is this plan working for you? How's both the fretless and fretted sounding?

Interested!

TIA
Not quite 6 months yet, but close. It goes very well, thank you! I am almost exclusively playing the fretless 370EF now, I just find it more fun and it allows me to explore things that aren't immediately available to me on my fretted basses. For example, micro-shifts are easier. if you are bopping away it's easy to micro shift into the diminished chords or scales from any fingering that you may find yourself in at the time you want to make the change. If you make a mistake you can roll or slide out of it before it's noticeable. The action is lower, so playing with arthritic fingers is less taxing. Intonation hasn't been an issue, I picked that up quickly, stopped playing with drones a couple months ago. Drones can get super annoying. I would say the path forward mostly takes me into the upper range, above the 17th position, where these is still work to do.

I would summarize to say fretless has made me a better player, has improved my technique and creativity. I play more now because it is more fun to play it.

When I do force myself to play the fretted basses in my stable, I find the easiest to adjust to is the P-bass (Sire P5R), but the SR1350B is the hardest to play. Tapes feel strange to me after playing chrome flats for so long, and the SR1350B wears tapes. The P has LTFs and the Jazz Plus has Pressure Wounds, both of which feel fine. There is no adjustment process for me going back and forth between the fretless and those fretted basses. Problem is, I just don't want to.

I guess Jaco said something like "play on the fret on fretted and you won't have a problem with fretless, playing on the line." I find that to be true.

I keep watching the market to see if another fretless catches my interest, but so far none (that I can afford) seems to be a marked improvement over what the SR370EF already provides me. I keep looking though.
 
Not quite 6 months yet, but close. It goes very well, thank you! I am almost exclusively playing the fretless 370EF now, I just find it more fun and it allows me to explore things that aren't immediately available to me on my fretted basses. For example, micro-shifts are easier. if you are bopping away it's easy to micro shift into the diminished chords or scales from any fingering that you may find yourself in at the time you want to make the change. If you make a mistake you can roll or slide out of it before it's noticeable. The action is lower, so playing with arthritic fingers is less taxing. Intonation hasn't been an issue, I picked that up quickly, stopped playing with drones a couple months ago. Drones can get super annoying. I would say the path forward mostly takes me into the upper range, above the 17th position, where these is still work to do.

I would summarize to say fretless has made me a better player, has improved my technique and creativity. I play more now because it is more fun to play it.

When I do force myself to play the fretted basses in my stable, I find the easiest to adjust to is the P-bass (Sire P5R), but the SR1350B is the hardest to play. Tapes feel strange to me after playing chrome flats for so long, and the SR1350B wears tapes. The P has LTFs and the Jazz Plus has Pressure Wounds, both of which feel fine. There is no adjustment process for me going back and forth between the fretless and those fretted basses. Problem is, I just don't want to.

I guess Jaco said something like "play on the fret on fretted and you won't have a problem with fretless, playing on the line." I find that to be true.

I keep watching the market to see if another fretless catches my interest, but so far none (that I can afford) seems to be a marked improvement over what the SR370EF already provides me. I keep looking though.

Good for you!! Your hard work is paying off. Thanks!!

.
 
Wish I had bought one years ago. Fretless looks intimidating, but like many scary people I know at gym, once you get to know them they are pussycats.
Yup. Took me 22 years to get my first fretless and then 8 years and 4 basses to find the right one. Played it exclusively for almost a year straight. Simply love the freedom.
 
  • Like
Reactions: joeLowB
Yup. Took me 22 years to get my first fretless and then 8 years and 4 basses to find the right one. Played it exclusively for almost a year straight. Simply love the freedom.
I'm curious, which fretless did you try, and which did you finally choose as your favorite?

I only play 4 strings and have found the selection to be pretty limited, at least in terms of current production models, ones that I can afford (under $2,000). Of course there are used models out there for that amount, but I wouldn't know how to pick a good one, could end up with a lemon.
 
Good for you! Fretless bass is an adventure. I went unlined because I felt like if im diving into this instrument I need to fully do it. I echo your comments about how it feels to play. Fretted feels physically and mentally easier after, which is great! How i groove on a fretless makes me feel more connected. So much fun!
If I buy a second fretless it will be unlined. No reason to fear it.
 
I'm curious, which fretless did you try, and which did you finally choose as your favorite?

I only play 4 strings and have found the selection to be pretty limited, at least in terms of current production models, ones that I can afford (under $2,000). Of course there are used models out there for that amount, but I wouldn't know how to pick a good one, could end up with a lemon.
Started with a lined Pedulla Pentabuzz. Sold it after a couple years as it just wasn’t comfortable. Picked up a lined Fodera Emperor 5 string next. LOVED the tone. Still the best fretless tone I’ve ever experienced but it was wasn’t super comfortable. Neck width was too wide and chunky mostly. Sold. Then had a lined Ibanez Gary Willis 5 string. Played GREAT. Narrow neck, absolutely effortless action, 8 lbs. The tone was “meh” and I constantly messed with my strap height trying to get it just right and get the smaller and thin body shape to feel “normal” while standing. Returned it after a month-ish and went with an unlined Music Man Ball Family Reserve Fretless StingRay 5 Special. It’s what I wish I had gone with to begin with back in 2015 when I started my fretless journey. Comfort wins out for me. Like a glove. Tone is excellent though not as “fretlessy” as the Pedulla or as sweet as the Fodera… BUT… it sounds and plays and feels exactly like a fretless StingRay should, if that makes sense.
 
  • Like
Reactions: joeLowB
Started with a lined Pedulla Pentabuzz. Sold it after a couple years as it just wasn’t comfortable. Picked up a lined Fodera Emperor 5 string next. LOVED the tone. Still the best fretless tone I’ve ever experienced but it was wasn’t super comfortable. Neck width was too wide and chunky mostly. Sold. Then had a lined Ibanez Gary Willis 5 string. Played GREAT. Narrow neck, absolutely effortless action, 8 lbs. The tone was “meh” and I constantly messed with my strap height trying to get it just right and get the smaller and thin body shape to feel “normal” while standing. Returned it after a month-ish and went with an unlined Music Man Ball Family Reserve Fretless StingRay 5 Special. It’s what I wish I had gone with to begin with back in 2015 when I started my fretless journey. Comfort wins out for me. Like a glove. Tone is excellent though not as “fretlessy” as the Pedulla or as sweet as the Fodera… BUT… it sounds and plays and feels exactly like a fretless StingRay should, if that makes sense.
Yeah, all good choices. EBMM would probably be my choice too, if I buy another fretless. Either the Pino or the 4 string version of your model. Would have to sell 1 or 2 of my basses to offset the expense.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Element Zero