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Best practice routine for learning fretless, for fretted player

#61
ardgedee said:
Is the volume knob maxed? If so it's probably adding unnecessary gain. Unlike on a passive bass turning down the volume doesn't affect the tone. Just set the volume to whatever works.
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I've backed off the volume on the bass about 25%, and I have the gain on the Rumble100 at about 8:30, which is about 15% or max, and volume on the amp at same, 8:30. The only thing I can figure is the dual pole p'ups are extremely high output, designed so they can work in either hum bucking or single pole mode. If I put the selector to single (tap) position it's not too bad. Seems to be just the way they built this thing? Nobody complains about a bass that's too loud, except a guy like me, who plays it in an apartment bedroom!

With all my other basses, I normally back off volume about the same on bass, but set gain at 12 o'clock and volume on amp at 9:00. So this bass is about 2x as loud.

Yes, I think I will just manage it with the bass volume knob. I prefer not to mess with the p'ups, my tech set it up, and everything else is spot on.
 
#62
Does your bass have the original pickups and electronics, untampered-with? Because out of the box I would assume the humbuckers are wired in parallel and shouldn't be much louder than single-coil mode.

The SR370EF has a PowerTap switch, which somebody helpfully described in detail in a previous talkbass thread -- it's not a conventional single/series/parallel switch.
 
#63
ardgedee said:
Does your bass have the original pickups and electronics, untampered-with? Because out of the box I would assume the humbuckers are wired in parallel and shouldn't be much louder than single-coil mode.

The SR370EF has a PowerTap switch, which somebody helpfully described in detail in a previous talkbass thread -- it's not a conventional single/series/parallel switch.
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Oh, yeah, it's standard out of the box. When I put it in single coil mode (called "tap") it is still louder than my other basses but not as much as when I have it in hum bucker position, and louder still in power tap mode. I don't know, I guess it's just an annoyance. As long as I turn it down it doesn't make a difference, I was just wondering if others have found this to be an issue?

I've never played another fretless so have no base of comparison. You almost never see them at GC, or other stores.

All that said, the 370EF is an excellent bass for its price point and I'm enjoying it. I just hope my neighbors feel the same way about it?
 
#64
BassicJazzy said:
I'm a newbie on fretless, just acquired an Ibanez SR370EF, lined fretless. I found I could play it out of the box without too many issues. I have very good muscle memory on the fretboard, so I just adjusted my position. I did look at the fret lines much more than I would normally look at a fretted board, normally I only look when making a major shift in position, just to make sure I land at the right position. Therefore my playing on fretless was slower than usual. That's not my issue or my question here. Issue is when I went back to fretted I started hitting bad notes. Playing the fretless kinda messed up my muscle memory. So my question for those of you who have straddled both instruments successfully, is "how do you best spit up your practice so as not to mess up both instruments?" Should I practice on both each day, or should I set a day or two aside and only do the fretless? Which works best?
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Practice in front of a mirror. It enhances muscle memory while getting you to avoid looking directly at the fret/finger board. After a while you will be more directly engaging the audience.
 
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#65
Turnaround said:
Practice in front of a mirror. It enhances muscle memory while getting you to avoid looking directly at the fret/finger board. After a while you will be more directly engaging the audience.
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OMG, I'm almost 71, that guy in the mirror looks nothing like me. I am much better looking and at least 10 lbs lighter than that dude. No seriously, I do not have a problem hitting the notes. Only takes a 5 minute warm up and I'm aligned. My printer doesn't even align that quickly. I find it easy to play, just more taxing. Like the difference between driving a car and an RV. Takes more concentration.

There are some interesting points on the "fretless club" thread, about how you can play slightly flat and not hear it, but go sharp a bit, and it sticks out like a sore thumb. Interesting how our ears work.

I practice off a drone and in keys that I do not usually play in, ones that don't have open strings to cheat on. For now, that will suffice. I'm not going to be in front of any audience other than my wife, and she doesn't tip much anyway.
 
#66
BassicJazzy said:
I've never played another fretless so have no base of comparison. You almost never see them at GC, or other stores.
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I don't think it will be specific to fretlesses. I've never played one that behaved like that.

The preamp and pickup in your bass are used in other Ibanez models too, I would assume they work the same way. After reading the technical description (well, reverse-engineering) I wouldn't assume that the Power Tap switch would make the pickup output hotter, but apparently it does.
 
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#67
ardgedee said:
I don't think it will be specific to fretlesses. I've never played one that behaved like that.

The preamp and pickup in your bass are used in other Ibanez models too, I would assume they work the same way. After reading the technical description (well, reverse-engineering) I wouldn't assume that the Power Tap switch would make the pickup output hotter, but apparently it does.
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I think they only use it in the fretted version, the SR370E. The higher level fretted and fretless use a different pre-amp, or at least one with some different p'ups. The 700 and 900 series have much better p'ups. Like my SR1350B, which has Big Singles, much better p'ups than the ones in the SR370 series. The SR1350B has a much more complex preamp too. It's light years ahead of the one in the 370 series.

As I said, I'm not complaining about the sound, it's pretty good, not great, but good. Just strange about how it puts out twice the volume of the SR1350B? For the $, the SR370EF is an incredible value, I am certainly pleased with how it handles, how it plays. That's what's most important, right?
 
#68
BassicJazzy said:
I think they only use it in the fretted version, the SR370E.
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It's in all current SR300 and SR400 series basses. Click on the "Open Used Item List" link at the bottom of the page if you don't see a list of instrument models.

Ibanez tries to modularize their electronics as much as possible. For example the core BEQ3 preamp board (again, click "Open Used Item List") in your SR370EF has been used in hundreds of other models for over a decade (including premium BTB models and limited-edition Soundgear models). What sets the SR300/SR400 series models apart (including yours) is the particular selection of pickups and that powertap switch in combination with the preamp.

I'm familiar with the SRF700 series... the electronics there are complex but have some issues too... the lack of a midrange EQ band hobbles it tone-wise, since so much of a fretless's character is in the mids. I guess that since it's already got six knobs (Vol, Vol, Bass, Treble for pickups, Vol and tilt EQ for piezo) that's apparently where they decided to draw the line. The SR370EF has a better fingerboard than the SRF700, too :smug:
 
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#70
ardgedee said:
It's in all current SR300 and SR400 series basses. Click on the "Open Used Item List" link at the bottom of the page if you don't see a list of instrument models.

Ibanez tries to modularize their electronics as much as possible. For example the core BEQ3 preamp board (again, click "Open Used Item List") in your SR370EF has been used in hundreds of other models for over a decade (including premium BTB models and limited-edition Soundgear models). What sets the SR300/SR400 series models apart (including yours) is the particular selection of pickups and that powertap switch in combination with the preamp.

I'm familiar with the SRF700 series... the electronics there are complex but have some issues too... the lack of a midrange EQ band hobbles it tone-wise, since so much of a fretless's character is in the mids. I guess that since it's already got six knobs (Vol, Vol, Bass, Treble for pickups, Vol and tilt EQ for piezo) that's apparently where they decided to draw the line. The SR370EF has a better fingerboard than the SRF700, too :smug:
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Thank you for that info. Yes, I can see looking at the preamp board that it has inputs for additional controls and/or piezo. I particularly appreciate the input about the board on the 700, was thinking of upgrading, but if I do will probably jump to the premium line. For now, I'm enjoying the 370 and as already said, it is a pleasure to play it.
 
#72
ardgedee said:
tbh if I was upgrading the preamp I would get a third party item. Preamps are Ibanez's weakest point, and there are a lot of vendors making good and interesting preamps for relatively cheap.
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Thanks! I did some digging in TB history and the subject of upgrading budget SRs with my p'ups and preamp has come up quite a bit. Seems the consensus is what you have said here, the preamp is the weak link. Most feel the p'ups are pretty good. I listened to sound file of a player who changed to a Bart pre-amp, making the tap switch into a mid freq selector instead, adding a push/pull to take the preamp offline so the bass could be played passively. Seems nobody likes the tap options too much. I gotta tell you, for the $220 spent on the pre amp I could not hear that much difference, though the Bart had a more solid and compressed tone. I'm pretty sure I can get that same sound through my pedal board, with my MXR compressor, so wonder if it's worth it? Probably not. Not really a fan of modding unless it's absolutely needed.

I bought this bass to explore fretless and I think it will make more sense to upgrade everything when it's time to move up, move to a new bass. Lots of options in the $1,200 - 1,500 range. Meanwhile, this one is fun, playing it now!
 
#74
Turnaround said:
Practice in front of a mirror. It enhances muscle memory while getting you to avoid looking directly at the fret/finger board. After a while you will be more directly engaging the audience.
Click to expand...
Thank you for your input. A more serious response now. Lost count but I think it's been about 11 days now of playing the 370EF. I'm only looking occasionally at the board and only when making major shifts, or going above the 12th fret. I use Scott Devine's suggestion of keeping the neck at a 90 degree angle to the lead sheet when I am following a chord chart. That way I can read and still cross check my position through peripheral vision without losing track of where I am on the sheet. Works well.

I've also found that I can control the quality of the sound coming from my dubious and very loud Ibanez onboard preamp by lightening up on my finger pressure. I've found the bass much more sensitive to this than any of my fretted basses. More pressure equals more mwah. Interesting how fretless works. I like the bass, very nice, fun to play. Wondering what other fretless basses sound like? Are they all similar, and as sensitive?
 
#75
IME, practicing fretless covers practicing fretted by and large, while the oppositie is not true.

So I play fretless 80-90% of the time around the house.

Things i do that help me: intonation: playing the same note in all octaves over the bass by ear, without looking at the fingerboard, every iteration of an E, then A, then D, then G etc) i have played every note there is on the fingerboard. I try an do this getting as clear a tone as possible: place the tips of my fingers on the fingerboard, no vibrato.
 
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#77
fishdreams said:
IME, practicing fretless covers practicing fretted by and large, while the oppositie is not true.

So I play fretless 80-90% of the time around the house.

Things i do that help me: intonation: playing the same note in all octaves over the bass by ear, without looking at the fingerboard, every iteration of an E, then A, then D, then G etc) i have played every note there is on the fingerboard. I try an do this getting as clear a tone as possible: place the tips of my fingers on the fingerboard, no vibrato.
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The fretless is starting to become addictive. I'm finding things that I did not find in my 4 fretted basses. This is the second day in a row that I picked up the fretless when I had planned on playing one or my fretted basses. My fretted basses are not happy right now, may start sneaking out to find other guys who will play them at night.

I'll know they've been cheating if I find a baby bass uke, or maybe a short scale Mustang, in my closet one morning!
 
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#78
Turnaround said:
Some like mwah, some don’t. I like to have it available when I want it so my fretless basses are set up such that if I dig in a bit I get mwah. Play more lightly, no mwah. Same on my double bass.
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Yes, I get it now. Play towards the bridge, less mwah. Play lightly, less mwah. Dig in, more mwah.

So much more tonal control than with the fretted.
 
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#79
I've gotten pretty accurate below the 17th fret line but above that is a bit of a crapshoot. I've watched lots of standup bass guys and they seem to slide into their intonations once they get high up on their boards. I realize that's a sin on electric fretless but with the distances between hitting a good note and a clam being so slight, I wonder? Any techniques that might help? 20th to 24th fret line are definite no-go land. Why did they even give them to me?
 
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