Best practice routine for learning fretless, for fretted player

[SteveCS]

I've gotten pretty accurate below the 17th fret line but above that is a bit of a crapshoot. I've watched lots of standup bass guys and they seem to slide into their intonations

Watch the top classical players and you won't see/hear this happening.

I do have that problem, too, glad my fretless J has only 20 frets...

Makes me wonder even more how Michael Manring gets his intonation so perfectly right on the almost 3 octave spanning unlined Hyperbass neck...

You just have to practice in those parts of the fingerboard. There are no shortcuts or magic bullets. It is a skill developed over hundreds of hours and not a genetic trait.

 

[BassicJazzy]

Watch the top classical players and you won't see/hear this happening.

You just have to practice in those parts of the fingerboard. There are no shortcuts or magic bullets. It is a skill developed over hundreds of hours and not a genetic trait.

Was hoping there was a pill I could take!

Well, if there is a secret, Jaco took it to his grave, Pino isn't talking, and Tony only has 20 positions on his P. Your point is well taken. I was always told to stay out of the upper register, bass players do not belong there. As a result, I doubt I have more then 20 hours total time in that area above 17. Getting there on my J requires going over the top, due to neck/body joint. My Sire P5R only has 21, but I can reach most of them and for some reason I can play the upper frets without too much problem on that bass. Something about the neck. I can get to 24 on the Ibanez, either fretted or fretless, but my hand is scrunched. On the SR1350B the sound gets very thin, it's just not great up there. The 370EF sounds much better in that area.

Well, as Jim Stinnett says in his lessons, "nobody wants to practice, they just expect to be able to play." The dreaded "P word." Back to the shed for me.

 

[SteveCS]

I was always told to stay out of the upper register, bass players do not belong there.

That's another myth. Again, listen to the classical solo repertoire and prepare to be floored... remember the double bass has the best part of an extra octave over most electric basses - that long fingerboard isn't there for decoration or because ebony is cheap!!

 

[the_Ryan]

That's another myth. Again, listen to the classical solo repertoire and prepare to be floored... remember the double bass has the best part of an extra octave over most electric basses - that long fingerboard isn't there for decoration or because ebony is cheap!!

And on double bass you can play notes past the end of the fingerboard!

 

[SteveCS]

I was always told to stay out of the upper register, bass players do not belong there.

This is a short audition piece I recorded last week of my daughter getting well and truly into the upper registers:

 

[BassicJazzy]

This is a short audition piece I recorded last week of my daughter getting well and truly into the upper registers:

That's beautiful but show me a clip of you doing similar on the fretless electric? I've been working on the Ibanez SR370EF and can now play to the 19th fret line with decent intonation, but things get dicey above that. 21st to 24th is just no good. Minefield of bad notes up there, 50/50 intonation at best.

If BHolder is listening, I'm waiting to see him demo his new 3 register bass, upper register of that thing is really looking like a challenge!

 

[SteveCS]

That's beautiful but show me a clip of you doing similar on the fretless electric?

In terms of video, this is all I have, and of course it doesn't go above the octave so is trivial by comparison:

 

[BassicJazzy]

In terms of video, this is all I have, and of course it doesn't go above the octave so is trivial by comparison:

Beautiful tone out of that Stingray. Much better than my Ibanez. Really nice playing too!

 

[SteveCS]

Beautiful tone out of that Stingray. Much better than my Ibanez. Really nice playing too!

Most kind, thank you!

 

[ProbablyTooLoud]

In terms of video, this is all I have, and of course it doesn't go above the octave so is trivial by comparison:

That's inspiring Steve, esp. the chords in the last 20 secs.
Thanks for sharing.

 

[BassicJazzy]

Most kind, thank you!

After seeing you slide some of those chords I tried that yesterday on my Ibanez, and it might be the single best thing about the fretless? That is really a blast!

 

[Les Fret]

That's beautiful but show me a clip of you doing similar on the fretless electric? I've been working on the Ibanez SR370EF and can now play to the 19th fret line with decent intonation, but things get dicey above that. 21st to 24th is just no good. Minefield of bad notes up there, 50/50 intonation at best.

I don't want to brag or anything, but I don't think it's that more challenging to play in tune on electric fretless in the upper most register than playing in tune below the 12th 'fret'. I do this a lot. As here in this video on my six string fretless. Think it goes to the 21st fret' on the G string and to the 18th on the C string. But I also like to go all the way to the 24th on the C string sometimes.

 

[BassicJazzy]

I don't want to brag or anything, but I don't think it's that more challenging to play in tune on electric fretless in the upper most register than playing in tune below the 12th 'fret'. I do this a lot. As here in this video on my six string fretless. Think it goes to the 21st fret' on the G string and to the 18th on the C string. But I also like to go all the way to the 24th on the C string sometimes.

I see you move the neck to a more vertical orientation when you go to the upper register, which is a technique that many prescribe to improve accuracy with intonation. I may give that a try.

Very nice playing, by the way. I dig that fusion vibe!

 

[BassicJazzy]

Well, I tried going more vertical with the neck but the SR just doesn't want to balance that way, and ergonomics don't work well, but it did marginally improve my ability to hit the notes past the 17th fret line accurately. I don't think I could hold that playing position for very long though. I'll keep working on it. I appreciate the input.

 

[Les Fret]

I see you move the neck to a more vertical orientation when you go to the upper register, which is a technique that many prescribe to improve accuracy with intonation. I may give that a try.

Very nice playing, by the way. I dig that fusion vibe!

Thanks. I don’t do the vertical pose for my intonation. But for better access to the upper register and for better pose in general. Especially right hand and right shoulder. You see more players in that pose the last few years, many happen to be fusion guys. It takes a while to get used to. And for slapping it makes it a bit harder.

 

[SteveCS]

That's inspiring Steve, esp. the chords in the last 20 secs.
Thanks for sharing.

Thank you kindly!

 

[TomB]

Just to address one question in your OP… Like moving between four strings and five, I make a conscious effort to keep up skills on the one while I continue to master the other. Like simultaneous singing and playing, it involves training and exercising multiple parts of the brain. I suggest the same for fretless vs fretted. Try to keep up both! You never know when the need will arise if you’re a working musician.

 

[BassicJazzy]

Just to address one question in your OP… Like moving between four strings and five, I make a conscious effort to keep up skills on the one while I continue to master the other. Like simultaneous singing and playing, it involves training and exercising multiple parts of the brain. I suggest the same for fretless vs fretted. Try to keep up both! You never know when the need will arise if you’re a working musician.

Yes, thank you, today I rotate back to the fretted, after playing the fretless for 6 or 7 days in a row. Every day I say I'm going to pick up a fretted bass but I reach instead for the fretless. I have 3 fretted, which I play in this order - Sire P5R, Fender Jazz Plus, andIbanez SR1350B. Then it's back to the SR370EF.

Last time it was a 5 day stretch on the fretless and no damage done when I returned to the fretted. Just takes a warm-up to get used to the different strings I have on each bass. Actions on all are pretty low, so that's not an issue, nor is alignment.

It is possible that at some point I will sell those basses and buy one really nice fretless and just go 100% to that. I really enjoy playing the fretless. I'm 70, almost 71, and will never be a working musician. I just play for my own enjoyment, and strive to be better than the day before, each time I pick up the instrument.

 

[TomB]

Yes, thank you, today I rotate back to the fretted, after playing the fretless for 6 or 7 days in a row. Every day I say I'm going to pick up a fretted bass but I reach instead for the fretless. I have 3 fretted, which I play in this order - Sire P5R, Fender Jazz Plus, andIbanez SR1350B. Then it's back to the SR370EF.

Last time it was a 5 day stretch on the fretless and no damage done when I returned to the fretted. Just takes a warm-up to get used to the different strings I have on each bass. Actions on all are pretty low, so that's not an issue, nor is alignment.

It is possible that at some point I will sell those basses and buy one really nice fretless and just go 100% to that. I really enjoy playing the fretless. I'm 70, almost 71, and will never be a working musician. I just play for my own enjoyment, and strive to be better than the day before, each time I pick up the instrument.

Ah, then you won’t get the call for the Johnny Cash tribute show where their first question was if I had a vintage P-bass, LOL! Actually, I do - and it does do something special I’d prefer to stay in touch with.

 

[BassicJazzy]

Ah, then you won’t get the call for the Johnny Cash tribute show where their first question was if I had a vintage P-bass, LOL! Actually, I do - and it does do something special I’d prefer to stay in touch with.

Yes, truth be told I would be hard pressed to part with my Jazz Plus. I would probably keep it under any circumstances, would be hard to find another and it has a place close to my heart, have owned it since '91. Could always pick up another P or an SR if I got sentimental. I too love the P-bass, it's very comfortable and easy to play, and sounds great for things requiring a deep tone.