Better EQing vs. Buying A Different Bass?

[SteveC]

I tried a Sadowsky M5-24...twice..and wasn't able to "EQ" it to what I wanted. It sounded how it sounded and with that bass there was nothing you could do about it.

I tried making a "P" sound more like a "J" for a more smooth jazz tone and couldn't do it. Still sounded like a "P" bass.

Just a couple examples.

 

[Korladis]

You can get anything "close." But there's an inherent timbre to each instrument.

Each instrument is capable of a wide variety of tones. It's really not hard to get a P-bass tone out of a 4001 knockoff. It's all about how you set the volume and tone controls, how you EQ the amp, and where on the instrument you play.

I almost never do set it that way, but I can. Gets a good Entwistle-ish P tone through an overdriven amp.

 

[Thunderthumbs73]

Has anyone bought another bass simply because they didn’t like how the old one sounded, but later realized that with the correct EQing on a decent bass and amp, you could’ve achieved that sound you were looking for? I know I have. We all like to have our basses sound amazing with the EQ flat, but I’m coming to realize that most basses can achieve most sounds, but the trick is to know how to EQ in that sound on your particular bass and amp in a band situation. IMO, the one sound you really can’t EQ if your bass just doesn’t have it is that compressed burpy sound for fingerstyle playing. Any thoughts?

I generally don't eq my basses at all, and don't touch the amp settings unless the room is really bad and needs some corrective action, to the degree that I can provide it. My settings are generally always at halfway or middle. This is true for any and every band situation I've been in.

Never sold a bass because I was dissapointed in the sound.

I want to enjoy each bass for the unique sonic signature/tone each one has, instead of trying to get them all to sound the same. But for fun, it is interesting to see how much, for instance, I can make an MM sound like a Fender, or vice-versa, etc...

 

[jnammy]

SteveC, I'm not sure how you tweaked your EQ, but I can make my Modern 24-5 sound exactly like my Fender P5 by using only the neck pickups, reducing the lows and increasing the mid-highs a bit. However, I totally get how a P cannot do that burpy J bridge pickup fingerstyle sound (as mentioned in my original post), but if you're talking about that smooth fat round sound from the neck pickup on a J, a P can totally do that.

 

[Brad Johnson]

If you have to do a lot of eq'ing to get the sound you want. Its the wrong bass. Much better to get one that has the sound you want with very little eq'ng needed. You get a better bass that way for what your wanting.

Agreed. Which is why I won't have a 31 band EQ in my signal chain anytime soon.

I don't believe you can EQ any bass to sound like any other bass, not if you're really familiar with both basses in question. IMO nuances matter.

 

[Brad Johnson]

Each instrument is capable of a wide variety of tones. It's really not hard to get a P-bass tone out of a 4001 knockoff. It's all about how you set the volume and tone controls, how you EQ the amp, and where on the instrument you play.

I almost never do set it that way, but I can. Gets a good Entwistle-ish P tone through an overdriven amp.

An overdriven amp can cover up quite a bit IME. At that point you're almost using the bass as a trigger.

Make the Rick sound like a P and them make the P sound like a Rick. Then make both of them sound like a Jazz. Then make them all sound like a Ken Smith. Now we're talking.


And none of this takes into acount the different feel of the instruments.

 

[SteveC]

SteveC, I'm not sure how you tweaked your EQ, but I can make my Modern 24-5 sound exactly like my Fender P5 by using only the neck pickups, reducing the lows and increasing the mid-highs a bit.

Yeah, I know that. Thing is, I don't use that tone much - I try but it just isn't me - and when using both pups that thing had a tone that was a little too aggressive for me.

However, I totally get how a P cannot do that burpy J bridge pickup fingerstyle sound (as mentioned in my original post), but if you're talking about that smooth fat round sound from the neck pickup on a J, a P can totally do that.

This is more what I meant I guess. You can get a J to do a P, but you can't get a P to do a J and I am more of a J guy, especially for the contemporary jazz and church stuff.

 

[IronLung1986]

with most basses you can use the EQ (and all kinds of other gadgets for that matter) to get a reasonable albeit forced approximation of most standard tones. but in my experience, if the tone in your head is completely different from the one your bass is naturally able to achieve, no amount of EQ'ing or effects is going to give you that lightbulb moment of tone inspiration. if you're tasteful and clear-sighted enough to know the sound you want, your gear needs to help you get it without a fight. in other words, use the right tools for the job.

 

[Korladis]

An overdriven amp can cover up quite a bit IME. At that point you're almost using the bass as a trigger.

Make the Rick sound like a P and them make the P sound like a Rick. Then make both of them sound like a Jazz. Then make them all sound like a Ken Smith. Now we're talking.


And none of this takes into acount the different feel of the instruments.

I don't own a P. The closest thing I had was a Peavey Milestone IV, which I gleefully butchered by routing it for a Rick pickup.

But yeah, I play through a tube amp, usually overdriven. It can sound pretty nice and thumpy, too. It's not screaming all the time. Just most of the time. He didn't specify which P-bass tone to make a Rickenbacker sound like, either. So, making it sound pretty much like snarling Entwistle P-bass tone I think counts as success. Favoring the neck pickup works pretty well for motown, though, which, of course, is a very very different tone than Entwistle got live, though both are P-basses.

Using the bass as a trigger? I wouldn't go that far. It's more that I think of my amp as part of my instrument.

 

[Fuzzbass]

Using the bass as a trigger? I wouldn't go that far.

That might only be true for heavy fuzz or a synth pedal, either of which can, at the extreme end, disguise tone and squash dynamics. Few bassists go that far.

It's more that I think of my amp as part of my instrument.

That's wise enough. Everything between your brain and the sound waves you generate is part of your instrument. The differences in opinion are in how we use each component to get the sound waves we desire. "Flat" is fine, coloration is fine.

 

[Fuzzbass]

with most basses you can use the EQ (and all kinds of other gadgets for that matter) to get a reasonable albeit forced approximation of most standard tones. but in my experience, if the tone in your head is completely different from the one your bass is naturally able to achieve, no amount of EQ'ing or effects is going to give you that lightbulb moment of tone inspiration. if you're tasteful and clear-sighted enough to know the sound you want, your gear needs to help you get it without a fight. in other words, use the right tools for the job.

The OP said he sold a bass that he thinks could have worked for him if he'd known how to use EQ better. Now, if he didn't like the tone of the bass at all, I agree that it's probably better that he sold it. However, if he sold the bass merely because the tone was mediocre, then it's very possible that EQ tweaks could have taken it from "meh" to "cool".

 

[spade2you]

I don't believe you can EQ any bass to sound like any other bass, not if you're really familiar with both basses in question.

If you had the right technique, you can get an SX to sound like anything.

 

[unclejane]

If you had the right technique, you can get an SX to sound like anything.

If that were the case, we'd probably all just be playing SX's and sounding like all these other basses .

But seriously, I think you have a really good point in that the player's contribution is significant. There's another thread that Kwesi started on FL tone and whether it's really "all in the fingers" where this idea is being kicked around.

I'm a good case in point where the basses (well now the bass singular) have a definite and er, rather low, upper limit to how good they can sound when I'm playing them.

OTOH, some basses are better than others at responding to tonal EQ, I've found. For instance, the main problem with my rick and my G&L isn't that they don't have a unique (and some would say great) tone, it's that it's so overwhelming that you can't get _rid_ of it when you want to. My rick goes clop clop clackity clack no matter what I do electronically to it or how hard/soft I whack on it (and it does so even in good players' hands too). My G&L has that suped-up Fender pinch to it with a strong acoustic bass kind of tone over it pretty much no matter where I turn the knobs or flick the switches. I can get rid of a lot of it electronically, but can't eliminate it completely.

My Carvin, OTOH, is a lot easier to manipulate electronically. With the rear pickup only I can get a good Bunny Brunel pop and by adding a little grind and treble, almost a MusicMan type sound. If I run just the neck PU, it's the splitting image of a Precision, minus a little of the mud. Both PUs and it sounds like a smooth jazzy bass with a signature all its own. Now, part of that is it has virtually zero acoustic image on its own - playing it unplugged is virtually inaudible except for the clicking on the fingerboard. So it makes very little acoustic contribution to the sound coming out of the pickups.

But to be honest the Carvin is the only bass I've personally ever had that is that responsive to EQ but also sits in a mix perfectly with every knob set flat and no batteries in it.

That's not to say there aren't a lot of other basses that are the same way, but it's certainly true that many others have their own characteristics that they're stuck with....

LS

 

[spade2you]

If that were the case, we'd probably all just be playing SX's and sounding like all these other basses .

....but they're only $11.

 

[jnammy]

I used to think that you couldn't EQ one bass to sound like another too, that's why I went through so many basses, but I think I'm beginning to realize that you can, again, unless you're trying to make a bass do that burpy bridge pickup fingerstyle sound when it doesn't already have it.

You have to wonder how bassists like Ed Friedland can get a great sound out of every type of bass (see YouTube); it's not just that he's a great player, I really think it's because he has a great ear and ability to adjust his technique and EQ his bass and amp based on what he hears. On the other hand, listen to a beginner bassist and most likely not only will his playing suck, but his tone will suck too, regardless of the bass.

It's the same in the audiophile world; everyone wants to achieve audio nirvana with the EQ set flat, they will not mess with the EQ no matter what. Serious audiophiles will spend tens of thousands to tweak their sound slightly, when it many times can be achieved by tweaking the EQ and adjusting the speaker/listening sweet spot placement. For that matter, most high end amps don't even come with an EQ. My point is, why spend so much time and energy on gear (which I'm guilty of), when in most cases, you can adjust your technique and EQ the sound you want?

I recently got a chance to talk with Norm Stockton at the MTD booth at NAMM and it was obvious that he had great chops and a great ear, but so surprising how little he knew about gear. He didn't know what kinds of pickups he had in his own MTD J bass or whether it was single coil or not, not even the scale of the bass! That really made me think about concentrating more on playing!

 

[Fuzzbass]

But seriously, I think you have a really good point in that the player's contribution is significant. There's another thread that Kwesi started on FL tone and whether it's really "all in the fingers" where this idea is being kicked around.

I would hope that we all agree that tone is both in the fingers and in the gear. This thread is specific to EQ. As stated earlier, if it's a struggle to get a bass to sound good using EQ, then it's probably better to get another bass. However the same is true for technique: if you have to go outside of your comfort zone to get a bass to sound good -- e.g you have to play too hard, play too close to the bridge, etc -- then you should likewise consider getting another bass.

There are other factors such as setup and strings, but let's keep things as simple as possible and assume they've already been optimized...

 

[unclejane]

My point is, why spend so much time and energy on gear (which I'm guilty of), when in most cases, you can adjust your technique and EQ the sound you want?

I wouldn't say you're "guilty" of anything would be my point. Pursuing good gear that sounds the way you want it to sound is a worthwhile goal. I mean, apart from the $11 SX statement by Spade (I'm definitely going to investigate and a whole lotta selling may go on if his claim pans out!).
You don't want to go overboard necessarily and start thinking the gear will really make you a better player, etc., but if you hit a wall with the sound on your current bass it's not a bad thing to try something else.

BTW, notice also that Ed F. tends to review really good quality gear . True he sounds great no matter what, but so much more so with all those neat basses....

I recently got a chance to talk with Norm Stockton at the MTD booth at NAMM and it was obvious that he had great chops and a great ear, but so surprising how little he knew about gear. He didn't know what kinds of pickups he had in his own MTD J bass or whether it was single coil or not, not even the scale of the bass! That really made me think about concentrating more on playing!

He has a very clear idea of the kind of sound he needs tho - that's why he went directly to Michael Tobias to get exactly the basses he needs to get his sound. It's part of what makes Norm Stockton sound like Norm Stockton....

LS

 

[Fuzzbass]

... Pursuing good gear that sounds the way you want it to sound is a worthwhile goal. I mean, apart from the $11 SX statement by Spade (I'm definitely going to investigate and a whole lotta selling may go on if his claim pans out!).
You don't want to go overboard necessarily and start thinking the gear will really make you a better player, etc., but if you hit a wall with the sound on your current bass it's not a bad thing to try something else.


(Norm) has a very clear idea of the kind of sound he needs tho - that's why he went directly to Michael Tobias to get exactly the basses he needs to get his sound. It's part of what makes Norm Stockton sound like Norm Stockton....

LS

Good points. I'll add here that I remember how it was when I was starting out. No way I could afford to flip through MTD 535s until I found the one I liked best! I could barely afford Fender/Ampeg stuff. Learning how to use my existing gear (including both technique and EQ) to accomplish my goal was a good thing, and cost effective.

 

[Brad Johnson]

If you had the right technique, you can get an SX to sound like anything.

So I've heard.

 

[Brad Johnson]

I used to think that you couldn't EQ one bass to sound like another too, that's why I went through so many basses, but I think I'm beginning to realize that you can, again, unless you're trying to make a bass do that burpy bridge pickup fingerstyle sound when it doesn't already have it.

You have to wonder how bassists like Ed Friedland can get a great sound out of every type of bass (see YouTube); it's not just that he's a great player, I really think it's because he has a great ear and ability to adjust his technique and EQ his bass and amp based on what he hears. On the other hand, listen to a beginner bassist and most likely not only will his playing suck, but his tone will suck too, regardless of the bass.

It's the same in the audiophile world; everyone wants to achieve audio nirvana with the EQ set flat, they will not mess with the EQ no matter what. Serious audiophiles will spend tens of thousands to tweak their sound slightly, when it many times can be achieved by tweaking the EQ and adjusting the speaker/listening sweet spot placement. For that matter, most high end amps don't even come with an EQ. My point is, why spend so much time and energy on gear (which I'm guilty of), when in most cases, you can adjust your technique and EQ the sound you want?

I recently got a chance to talk with Norm Stockton at the MTD booth at NAMM and it was obvious that he had great chops and a great ear, but so surprising how little he knew about gear. He didn't know what kinds of pickups he had in his own MTD J bass or whether it was single coil or not, not even the scale of the bass! That really made me think about concentrating more on playing!

I'd hope Ed wasn't EQing his amp to make the clips he puts up sound better. That helps no one but the company making the product.