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Beware Fodera's "certified pre-owned" web page and consignment deals

#41
For those of you who think that it was legal, you are wrong. The trick is establishing that a verbal contract was actually established. If this can be done then it is understood that Mike was in breach of contract.

Verbal agreements have stricter burdens of proof strictly because they always are reliant on the "recollection" of the parties involved when litigation ensues.

However, this is still a contract and therefore 80% of the sale price is what is owed to the original owner of the instrument. Consult a lawyer on this, and be sure to sue for the difference in what is owed you plus legal fees since - had they acted in good faith - you wouldn't be incurring the financial burden of legal action.

To everyone else in here caveat emptor! Be sure you get things in writing, especially when you're talking about substantial amounts of money.
 
#44
If this were Joe Blow taking a bass to a store and setting a consignment price, I wouldn't see a real problem with it because that price was up to them. OTOH, if this story bears out, the whole point in doing a brand consignment is that you'll have the expertise and knowledge of that brand on your side. That doesn't appear to be what happened. If the inside guy shopped the bass, found out the real value and then lowballed the seller, not cool. Not cool at all. He should've presented the offer to the seller, not given him a lower value.

The seller trusted that the offer was legit, based on what he should expect from the market, from people who should know the market. If there's another side to this, it'll be nice to hear how it differs. Should "Mike" be working to benfit "Mike"? No, not IMO. He's representing the brand and showing, if the story bears out, that the program is not to be trusted. 20% on as consignment is good money.

I'm in the middle of some nonsense about a bass and it's baffling how some people choose to "see" things.

The more I deal with people, the less I like them.
:hmm:
 
#47
i honestly dont think any thing went wrong, other than the owner of the bass was ill informed about his own instrument.

"mike" is human, most likely a bassist, if he sees a bass he wants he can buy it. and i'm sure Fodera, seeing that he's an employee would let the 20% pass so he could buy a bass he wanted. i'm sure joey and vinnie knew what the bass was, and told "mike" how much its worth. but how much its worth and how much it sells for are 2 diffrent things.

i'm sure this sill is better off with 6,200 in the bank, than 12,000 that never sells. i think he needs to quit bitchin' and get over it.

thats what you get for not finding out about stuff. thats why the antique road show is so popular, just because you don't appreaciate what you have dosent mean someone elses will
 
#48
Kobaia said:
i honestly dont think any thing went wrong, other than the owner of the bass was ill informed about his own instrument.

"mike" is human, most likely a bassist, if he sees a bass he wants he can buy it. and i'm sure Fodera, seeing that he's an employee would let the 20% pass so he could buy a bass he wanted. i'm sure joey and vinnie knew what the bass was, and told "mike" how much its worth. but how much its worth and how much it sells for are 2 diffrent things.

i'm sure this sill is better off with 6,200 in the bank, than 12,000 that never sells. i think he needs to quit bitchin' and get over it.

thats what you get for not finding out about stuff. thats why the antique road show is so popular, just because you don't appreaciate what you have dosent mean someone elses will
Click to expand...

If i'm not mistaken I bellieve "Mike" didn't keep the bass for himself, he actually sold it for $12,000 just to clarify the situation. Make your own opinion from there.

This thread actually baffles me because the original statement is said to be from another site, possibly not even a TB member?????
 
#49
Kobaia said:
i honestly dont think any thing went wrong, other than the owner of the bass was ill informed about his own instrument.
Click to expand...

I see being ill-informed by the people who are in the best position to inform you as a huge problem.

If that's what actually happened.

"mike" is human, most likely a bassist, if he sees a bass he wants he can buy it. and i'm sure Fodera, seeing that he's an employee would let the 20% pass so he could buy a bass he wanted. i'm sure joey and vinnie knew what the bass was, and told "mike" how much its worth. but how much its worth and how much it sells for are 2 diffrent things.

i'm sure this sill is better off with 6,200 in the bank, than 12,000 that never sells. i think he needs to quit bitchin' and get over it.

thats what you get for not finding out about stuff. thats why the antique road show is so popular, just because you don't appreaciate what you have dosent mean someone elses will
Click to expand...

If the seller asked what the bass was worth and was given a figure drastically below it's actual value... do you see that as a problem? I do.

I'm not saying that's what actually happened because so far I've only heard one side of this. It sounds like it could've happened.

BTW I have no beef with Fodera and am a very happy owner and have been happy with their customer service in regards to my bass. My opinions stated would be the same regardless of who was handling the consignment sale of one of their own products.
 
#50
Brad Johnson said:
If the seller asked what the bass was worth and was given a figure drastically below it's actual value... do you see that as a problem? I do.
Click to expand...

The seller states "He said that based on the price he discussed with the buyer, I'd get $6200 for the bass. Fully assuming this price was in line with & derived from the 80/20 consignment terms Joey and I discussed, I said that would work for me, because that would've meant he had discussed a price of ~7800 with "the buyer", which sounded about right."

He never asked how much it was worth. Period
His mistake. He was offered $6200 and he took it, once again, his mistake. He said the offer "sounded about right". He was happy with his money until he found out that he could have asked for more and gotten it. His mistake. If it was put up for sale before he had received the check he could have called and cancelled the deal, he said that it took several weeks to get the check. His mistake.
 
#51
CelinderMotoMan said:
The seller states "He said that based on the price he discussed with the buyer, I'd get $6200 for the bass. Fully assuming this price was in line with & derived from the 80/20 consignment terms Joey and I discussed, I said that would work for me, because that would've meant he had discussed a price of ~7800 with "the buyer", which sounded about right."

He never asked how much it was worth. Period
His mistake. He was offered $6200 and he took it, once again, his mistake. He said the offer "sounded about right". He was happy with his money until he found out that he could have asked for more and gotten it. His mistake. If it was put up for sale before he had received the check he could have called and cancelled the deal, he said that it took several weeks to get the check. His mistake.
Click to expand...

This is kind of where I am in this, and also of the opinion that he got exactly what he was looking for out of it.

But, to be completely fair, I have no idea how the events in question went down. Meaning, what was the conversation he had with 'Mike', did he ask about what he was looking for, was time to get money a factor, what was really said to him when seller was asked if 6200 was okay. None of us knows these details.

So it really is tough to tell whether he got compleely screwed, if he is whining about potential revenue missed, or most likely, he was given a number set by an employee based on expectations, and took that number when it was offerred.

One thing is for sure, no one is going to get 12Gs for that bass outside of the Fodera shop, period.
 
#52
Why consign? List it on TalkBass (hardy supply of GAS and gear heads). I once consigned scuba gear (vest, regulators, dive computer, etc.)...what a mistake. Bought everything retail for $1200, used it for 30 or less dives, shop sold it all for $250?? I was definitely raped by the scuba shop.
 
#53
I agree with Brad - the other Brad. A Fodera employee is supposed to let the guy know how much the bass is worth then sell it for what it's worth and keep 20%, returning the other 80% to the original owner. Knowing full well that the bass was worth $12000 (seems crazy to me, but my wife thinks my $1500 basses are too expensive), he told the guy it was worth far less than that, then sold it for the full value and pocketed over $6000 difference. If you have your emails back-and-forth that can be considered legally binding.

I do however agree that if the original owner were to try and sell that bass on his own, even with a certificate of authenticity from Fodera that the bass was built side-by-side and shared the same wood heritage as Victor's bass, he would probably be far closer to the $6200 he walked away with than to the $10000 he would have gotten from an honest dealing with "Mike".
 
#56
CelinderMotoMan said:
The seller states "He said that based on the price he discussed with the buyer, I'd get $6200 for the bass. Fully assuming this price was in line with & derived from the 80/20 consignment terms Joey and I discussed, I said that would work for me, because that would've meant he had discussed a price of ~7800 with "the buyer", which sounded about right."

He never asked how much it was worth. Period
His mistake. He was offered $6200 and he took it, once again, his mistake. He said the offer "sounded about right". He was happy with his money until he found out that he could have asked for more and gotten it. His mistake. If it was put up for sale before he had received the check he could have called and cancelled the deal, he said that it took several weeks to get the check. His mistake.
Click to expand...

Thanks for pointing that out but I already read it. I highlighted the pertinent part because IMO that is an obvious red flag.

"If" the buyer he discussed it with was the one who paid $12k for it and he told the seller he'd get $6200 based on the price he discussed with the buyer, I'm at a loss as to how someone can't see the obvious problem with that? "Mike" and Fodera are being used because of their expertise with the brand. Otherwise what is the value-add of going to Fodera to consign if they're going to lowball you and sell for a higher previously undisclosed price?

Did they sell it twice? To the person paying $7800 and then $12k? Did they know the bass was worth $12k, is the idea that "he didn't ask" reason enough to withhold that information?

While you point out many things you consider "his mistake", the fundamental one was trusting that someone would do the right thing and not misrepresent a transaction. I've made that "mistake" myself.

And I did preface all of this with "if" for obvious reasons.
:cool:
 
#58
lamarjones said:
This is kind of where I am in this, and also of the opinion that he got exactly what he was looking for out of it.

But, to be completely fair, I have no idea how the events in question went down. Meaning, what was the conversation he had with 'Mike', did he ask about what he was looking for, was time to get money a factor, what was really said to him when seller was asked if 6200 was okay. None of us knows these details.

So it really is tough to tell whether he got compleely screwed, if he is whining about potential revenue missed, or most likely, he was given a number set by an employee based on expectations, and took that number when it was offerred.

One thing is for sure, no one is going to get 12Gs for that bass outside of the Fodera shop, period.
Click to expand...

As much as I traffic in used basses, I don't see how that's a certainty by any stretch. That bass most certainly could draw that kind of money without going through Fodera. For instance, it's not that hard to find someone in the Japanese market to sell it for him, especially with Fodera to corroborate it's genesis. IF I were a guessing man, that's probably where it went. IF.
;)
 
#59
Brad Johnson said:
As much as I traffic in used basses, I don't see how that's a certainty by any stretch. That bass most certainly could draw that kind of money without going through Fodera. For instance, it's not that hard to find someone in the Japanese market to sell it for him, especially with Fodera to corroborate it's genesis. IF I were a guessing man, that's probably where it went. IF.
;)
Click to expand...

having been in fair shoes for dealing, no to the average person finding a guy in Japan is not an easy task. Certainly not on TB, and certainly not through things like bassgear and such. and I am half japanese ;)

However, we are in agreements and some of the IFs going on in this topic.
 
#60
lamarjones said:
having been in fair shoes for dealing, no to the average person finding a guy in Japan is not an easy task. Certainly not on TB, and certainly not through things like bassgear and such. and I am half japanese ;)

However, we are in agreements and some of the IFs going on in this topic.
Click to expand...


Talkbass is an international board. Between that and builders' links, that's how I found out about Gakki Fair, Sleek Elite, etc. It was easy. I've also seen interest in Foderas in Korea. If I sell mine, I'll be checking there first. I used to have one Japanese (IIRC) website that had dozens of over the top Foderas listed.

My first contact would be with the Fodera Club Japan.
 

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