Big Amps will come back one day!!!

[EliasA]

Never underestimate the power of nostalgia.

Riis

Never underestimate the power of people dying.

 

[J-phatt]

I don't know about that. All the local kids use classic/heavy gear and that's been for as long as I can remember. I get older, the kids stay the same age and use the same gear.

It seems to me that a lot of this boils down to genre.

Young musicians are really into visual aspects of performance where iconic gear plays a big role; being young they are still cute and ridiculousness doesn’t inhibit their onstage goofiness. Rock music gets a lot of mileage out of pageantry and fantasy which perennially defines the many subgenres of the form. This is why Gibbons, Fiendr, Rickenslacker, Gruntsch axes always fetch high prices. In amps, the beastly stacks of Marsha & Amplague, Funn0))) visually demonstrate to audiences that we are all here to RAWK.

 

[moon-bass]

Class D is certainly more convenient with regards to weight/size, but better? If Class D is better, why are do so many Class D amps come with tube preamps, simulated tube drive and marketing that hints at a "tube tone" (if not saying downright that the design is "based on" some older tube amp)? And why do people pay lots of money on modelling preamps, simulating a real tube amp in front of their Class D amps?

I'm not saying Class D amps are bad, far from it. But I have yet to find a Class D amp (or any kind of modelling amp/pedal) that makes me want to get rid of my tube amps.

You're in part confusing tube preamps with tube power amps. Also, no one ever said that tube amps don't sound good - the modellers et al appeal because they capture the same/similar tones in a much smaller/lighter package and they are much more flexible. I've always been a big fan of "to each their own" and better is certainly subjective, but class D amps and modellers are game changers IMO, and when you have very successful pros using class D and modellers, that should say something.

Not to mention that for decades stadium and large venue PA ampos have all been class D ...

 

[moon-bass]

I was at French Quarter Fest in New ORleans a few weekends ago - I think this year we had 30 stages. I didn;t see them all, but every stage that I saw had a pretty big rig for backline - mostly SVT/8x10's, but a few Mesa an others. Most likely the sound provider bought the SVTs as they are pretty common around here, especially for outdoor festivals.

 

[agedhorse]

If quality is poor, then you can have all the portability you want by carying nothing, so if the Amp is superior quality I think a bit for moving restrictions won't hurt

Who said that portable = poor quality? There are many examples of superior quality amps also being portable IMO.

Reading between the lines here tends to indicate that many small amp fans tend to feel the need to justify their choice mostly using weight and portability and big iron users accept that trade off for tones they prefer. The prior camp avoids profusely, the comparison of tone between the two.

I've enjoyed roadies for most of my background and having some large rigs behind me so can appreciate the light argument when I am providing shanks pony. But, the argument stops dead in its tracks when the always missing "tone", is added to the preference.
At the end of this thread, I would expect the light loaders to be the larger in number yet also expect that number to near reverse if players were asked to play what they actually preferred.

What about the big, heavy amp fans feeling the need to justify their choices?

I don't know about that. All the local kids use classic/heavy gear and that's been for as long as I can remember. I get older, the kids stay the same age and use the same gear.

It seems to me that a lot of this boils down to genre.

Much of this boils down to visuals and the depressed cost of older, heavy gear in general IMO.

 

[J-phatt]

Much of this boils down to visuals and the depressed cost of older, heavy gear in general IMO.[/QUOTE]

Historically young musicians have favored (and made trendy thus costly) cheaper instruments. Punk and grunge guitarists went for Fender offsets as they were much more affordable than Strats. Not sure about amps though.

 

[moon-bass]

Much of this boils down to visuals and the depressed cost of older, heavy gear in general IMO.

Historically young musicians have favored (and made trendy thus costly) cheaper instruments. Punk and grunge guitarists went for Fender offsets as they were much more affordable than Strats. Not sure about amps though.[/QUOTE]
I mean, when I was younger I had to use cheap amps ...

 

[watt]

brother horse,

I find this a righteous reality perspective and thank you so much for it.

I believe you really help w/the struggle against jive.

much respect to you, truly.

on bass, watt

mike watt's hoot page

Niche markets will always have some demand, though often this demand gets filled from the oversupply of large, heavy used gear, usually for less that 25 cents on the dollar.

 

[LowWay]

I am in my mid 50s. I wish I had this modern gear in my 20s-30s. I can’t get people in my circles to abandon loud rehearsals even now though.

 

[silky smoove]

The absolutes involved in supposed "justification" statements throughout this thread are hilarious. There are good and bad examples of old and new amps alike. Use what works well for you, stop making insulting statements towards people using something other than what you prefer, and please stop using the nonsensical term "digital amp."

 

[moon-bass]

Reading between the lines here tends to indicate that many small amp fans tend to feel the need to justify their choice mostly using weight and portability and big iron users accept that trade off for tones they prefer. The prior camp avoids profusely, the comparison of tone between the two.

I've enjoyed roadies for most of my background and having some large rigs behind me so can appreciate the light argument when I am providing shanks pony. But, the argument stops dead in its tracks when the always missing "tone", is added to the preference.
At the end of this thread, I would expect the light loaders to be the larger in number yet also expect that number to near reverse if players were asked to play what they actually preferred.

This hasn't been my experience at all. I'm curious where you are seeing that, because in other conversations on TB, the cesspool that is facebook, and IME i see the exact opposite - in fact, I'm all Class D right now and couldn't be happier with my tone - and I have been through A LOT of amps and preamps. The portability is a plus, but I wouldn't use something that I wasn't happy with tone-wise. I suspect most other bassists are the same.

Also, for the past (at least) 3-4 decades, arensa, stadiums, large venues - all class D. I would think that if class D amps inherently had poopy tone that they wouldn't be used for these places.

Class D amps aren't missing tone, that's a fallacy, and again, I've never seen a discussion missing tone. Maybe we run in different circles ...

 

[moon-bass]

What about the big, heavy amp fans feeling the need to justify their choices?

true that! The ONLY justification that I have heard has been "you just can't get that tone from class D" nonsense. Oh, and nonsensical things like "class D doesn't move air" etc.

Again, to each their own, but let's stop perpetuating BS. You wanna use big iron? Have at it! You wanna use class D? Sure! The condescending attitudes and BS just gets ridiculous.

It's always funny too - every once in awhile you see some guy blasting class D amps and then you find out that they are actually using class D but don't realize it. Kind of like how some people say they don't have Obamacare, they have the ACA

 

[vivaknoxvegas]

If I had the strength, stamina, and back that I did at 22, they would have never left (me).

 

[JMarkD]

The premise that "kids" will eventually covet the music of the sixties, seventies and eighties enough to drive a revival of intentionally heavy antiquated designs is a bit of a stretch. I suppose I am in the minority but honestly I prefer the sound of my class D amps. It is not a compromise. Believe it or not, some of us old dudes LIKE the way they sound and believe they sound better than tubes and old solid state amps. On the rare occasion that I encounter a provided backline I am usually dismayed to see an SVT or an old lead sled. Sure those amps sound great but I much prefer the sound and performance I get from my little four pound class D. It sounds better to me than all the old stuff and the light weight is simply a bonus.

 

[Snert]

Yay! Heavy amp!!!
Sob, my bass weighs more than 7lb.

 

[LiptonJigglers]

You should try my Mesa Subway D-800 or Plus....I think you might be happy

Sorry.
I tried both and detested both.

 

[CTW68]

The prior camp avoids profusely, the comparison of tone between the two.

I go back and forth between a Mesa D800 and the Mesa Buster! Bass 200 that I've owned for 25 years. They each have their own thing going on. There's a sparkle that the Buster! produces at higher volumes that I've only heard a tube power section produce, but the D800 always sounds good - from quiet home practice to stage. At 55, the Buster! is getting hard to pick up much less carry up a stairway, so it stays home.

 

[David A. Davis]

It’s 2024. Class D and Neodymium have caught up and left big iron and ceramics in the dust.

 

[Smooth_bass88]

I know Im in the minority, but I do think big amps will become fashionable again one day. Just like records have come back, kids will want to experience the real thing. There is something special that digital recreations cannot capture and just the feeling of moving that air cannot be truly mimicked. Prolly not 5 years but maybe 10. Thought?

Very highly unlikely. That gear is expensive. Plus not enough large venues, not enough actual bands, not enough roadies, gas prices.

 

[murphy]

Sorry.
I tried both and detested both.

I'm sorry to hear that.
Can you tell me why?
I used Eden for many years...then MarkBass...then Mesa
But have and use Alembic and Demeter preamps and Led Sled power amps

Live and on tour had Ampeg SVT and Marshall tube amp and 810 backlines