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Big E Speakers Part 4 - Quadraphenia

#2,064
My band, SLAMABAMA, had a fantastic weekend at Red Horse Ranch Arena in Fergus Falls, MN, playing for the 11th Annual PRCA Rodeo! Once again, our 218SLVX Tourmaster subs sounded amazing!

RedHorseRanch.jpg
 
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#2,065
Hey, fellow MAS fans--been puzzling about something, and would be interested in your insights. Has to do with matching the cab's waveguide to the room.

A couple times I've seen references to "overpressurizing," which I take to mean trying to pump too much volume into a room of given dimensions. I think maybe I've experienced this a couple times with my MAS112s (have an 18Sound version and a Faital version). In a small club, as the band's volume went up over the course of the night (no FOH for instruments, and the guitarist/BL can get pretty aggressive sometimes) there was a point at which I was feeling the low freq vibrations more than hearing the pitches. Is that "overpressurizing"? Was wondering if the cab was just too big for the room, in terms of the waveguide design. This is using a GK MB800 amp, close to wide open but not into distortion territory, so I'm figuring it was around 400 watts into the 8 ohm cab.

Got me wondering if maybe, when I work a small room, I should use a 46 instead. The 18Sound is a keeper for the rock/pop/country gigs I do (the mid-forward voice works best with my JJ gig bass), but guess I could see if anyone wants to swap a current version of the 46 for the Faital...

Anyway, I'd appreciate your comments, insights, or explanations on this point.
 
#2,066
Ewo said:
Hey, fellow MAS fans--been puzzling about something, and would be interested in your insights. Has to do with matching the cab's waveguide to the room.

A couple times I've seen references to "overpressurizing," which I take to mean trying to pump too much volume into a room of given dimensions. I think maybe I've experienced this a couple times with my MAS112s (have an 18Sound version and a Faital version). In a small club, as the band's volume went up over the course of the night (no FOH for instruments, and the guitarist/BL can get pretty aggressive sometimes) there was a point at which I was feeling the low freq vibrations more than hearing the pitches. Is that "overpressurizing"? Was wondering if the cab was just too big for the room, in terms of the waveguide design. This is using a GK MB800 amp, close to wide open but not into distortion territory, so I'm figuring it was around 400 watts into the 8 ohm cab.

Got me wondering if maybe, when I work a small room, I should use a 46 instead. The 18Sound is a keeper for the rock/pop/country gigs I do (the mid-forward voice works best with my JJ gig bass), but guess I could see if anyone wants to swap a current version of the 46 for the Faital...

Anyway, I'd appreciate your comments, insights, or explanations on this point.
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I will get back to you on this. My initial reaction is yes, too much rig for the gig.
 
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#2,067
We really need to know if this is coffee house small, living room small, etc. In general, however, too much waveguide would result in a loss of definition and as the user tries to build volume the MVW Loudspeaker does not gain much SPL, rather, it starts to energize items in the room or the room itself. This can be tested/verified by placing the MVW rig in question in a small venue and slowly building gain until the sound presentation gets wacky as illustrated above.
 
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#2,068
radbass said:
I checked with the Master and it appears that the new 112 will be available eventually in both 8 and 4 ohms if that's what people want. I would think these would be more often used as a stand alone cab, so the 4 would be more useful. Anyone else have an opinion? The new MAS 109 with the custom 10 will probably come with an 8 ohm speaker so you will have the option of using it as a sub or stand alone. It will handle about twice the power of the MA 109, but it's very efficient and gets real loud without a lot of power. This thing seems to me to get at least as loud as a really good 2x10, but goes much deeper. I would think you be able to carry most bars and small clubs with one of these without pa support. It also sounds amazing and does all the Big E magic tricks. We also tried Mike's Shaw 150 watt tube amp through the 112 and it got really loud and clean and sounded so good it made you want to cry.
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The Shaw B-150 is killer but I have a different reaction - it makes my ears grin, like so: :D (left) :D (right)
 
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#2,069
lelandcrooks said:
We really need to know if this is coffee house small, living room small, etc. In general, however, too much waveguide would result in a loss of definition and as the user tries to build volume the MVW Loudspeaker does not gain much SPL, rather, it starts to energize items in the room or the room itself. This can be tested/verified by placing the MVW rig in question in a small venue and slowly building gain until the sound presentation gets wacky as illustrated above.
Click to expand...

Yeah, that sounds like what I've experienced.

The room in question is a small neighborhood bar, prolly 30' x 50' or so, with about a 12' ceiling.

Added: Looks like I should get a smaller cab as a stablemate to my workhorse 18Sound MAS112, then.

I've got a Faital MAS112 I could swap for a current version 46, if anybody's interested.
 
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#2,071
Ewo said:
Yeah, that sounds like what I've experienced.

The room in question is a small neighborhood bar, prolly 30' x 50' or so, with about a 12' ceiling.

Added: Looks like I should get a smaller cab as a stablemate to my workhorse 18Sound MAS112, then.

I've got a Faital MAS112 I could swap for a current version 46, if anybody's interested.
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Yeah the room size, and ceiling height and surface reflection all are an issue. I play in 4 piece or three piece blues groups and we strive to allow bar patrons to converse while we play. Having blues/jazz style drummers is best, so the volume escalation does not happen. My 46 handles small clubs under those conditions just fine. Maybe even bigger clubs.
 
#2,073
mntngrown said:
Good question. Dee-man has owned both.
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Back when Mike posted those MAS "effective displacements" for different cabs, I'm pretty sure the 46 was 600 ccs, the 112 was 900 ccs, and the 210 Flex 1200ccs. My 112 feels to me like it'll go as loud as the 2nd gen 66 I used to have. A bit louder, maybe. The 46 is still loud, but the 112 is louder. I can't specifically comment on the relative size of the waveguides.
 
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#2,074
I would say the MAS112 (I had the Faital 8 ohm version) sounds significantly bigger than the 46. The 112 when I tried it was just so huge and enveloping, whereas the 46 is clearer with adequate low-end but not the same low-end extension or low-mid push of the 112. (I'm the one that likes the regular 110 sub under the 46 for extra low-end.) I should say the 112 and 46 together sounded darn good to me! I stacked them vertically with the 112 on the bottom. I also never A/B'd them directly and never tried to come close to seeing how loud either cab could get (my ears are too old for that).
 
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#2,078
When I got the 46, I was looking for something versatile and one-hand-schleppable I could use for practice at home, practice with people, and playing smaller rooms. It's not as small as a compact 1x12" and it's a good deal louder, but Mike did say it would "get going" earlier in smaller spaces and at lower volumes than the 112. To my ear, it does, though I have a hard time quantifying exactly how much earlier. I think that this would translate to "loading up" a small space less than the MAS 112, but, again, don't know how to quantify that.

I've never overloaded the room on a gig with the 112, but playing a quiet blues jam in a small space once with it and my GBE 1200, I didn't feel like I could get the cab or the amp going properly -- total overkill and I felt a bit silly, yes. It sounded good, but not at its best. For reference, I think I could've covered that jam with 100 Watts and decent 1x10" -- for sure and easily with my little Markbass 121P combo (have covered bigger and louder with that little amp in the past).

The 46 feels and sounds different than the 18 Sound 112. Could be nice for a contrast, but isn't "the same but smaller". Last time I talked to Mike he said that the new 109 would be more similar to the 112 vibe -- we didn't go into detail about it, but something to think about, depending on what you're looking for.
 
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#2,079
MarkA said:
When I got the 46, I was looking for something versatile and one-hand-schleppable I could use for practice at home, practice with people, and playing smaller rooms. It's not as small as a compact 1x12" and it's a good deal louder, but Mike did say it would "get going" earlier in smaller spaces and at lower volumes than the 112. To my ear, it does, though I have a hard time quantifying exactly how much earlier. I think that this would translate to "loading up" a small space less than the MAS 112, but, again, don't know how to quantify that.

I've never overloaded the room on a gig with the 112, but playing a quiet blues jam in a small space once with it and my GBE 1200, I didn't feel like I could get the cab or the amp going properly -- total overkill and I felt a bit silly, yes. It sounded good, but not at its best. For reference, I think I could've covered that jam with 100 Watts and decent 1x10" -- for sure and easily with my little Markbass 121P combo (have covered bigger and louder with that little amp in the past).

The 46 feels and sounds different than the 18 Sound 112. Could be nice for a contrast, but isn't "the same but smaller". Last time I talked to Mike he said that the new 109 would be more similar to the 112 vibe -- we didn't go into detail about it, but something to think about, depending on what you're looking for.
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Good to know Mark. The 46 on top of the two different 10 subs got the most attention at our little GTG. I brought the 48 and put the Superbassman on top. I had to ask folks if they wanted to try it. LOL The 46 is very versatile. The sub adds punch I am told, but I would probably just add a second 46 if my 46 was the only cab I had. It's not though. Sheepish grin.:)
 
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