Will do, and please do the same! I need to make one the MAS parties out here
No worries Mike, I'm in good hands. Bass gear nerds unite!!!
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Big E Speakers Part 4 - Quadraphenia
- Thread starter kesslari
- Start date
Will do, and please do the same! I need to make one the MAS parties out here
No worries Mike, I'm in good hands. Bass gear nerds unite!!!
- Dec 21, 2007
- 15,233
- 45,125
- Disclosures
- Lark in the Morning Instructional Videos; Audix Microphones
Jesus!
I win the thread.
Mtngrown, have a GREAT time with your MAS PA and bass rig, and your new bass.
Superbird, definitely let us know when you're playing.
My next gig is June 21 (up in the Sierras at a festival). Nothing local except some weddings and such.
I win the thread.
Mtngrown, have a GREAT time with your MAS PA and bass rig, and your new bass.
Superbird, definitely let us know when you're playing.
My next gig is June 21 (up in the Sierras at a festival). Nothing local except some weddings and such.
Nice review kesslari. Breaking in the cab playing for belly dancers is special too! Looks like a good price on a 45/110 in classifieds in Louisiana.
Dominick C.
Guest
I'm a Louisiana boy from, Acadia parish (living in Texas). Mntngrown seems to at least be in Louisiana (where there aren't hills much less mountains, unless you count levees). The Professor, who just sold the previous gen 46's, is in Louisiana somewhere. I think there is another 45/110 in Lafayette... It's like your favorite fishin' hole, one person hears about it, the next thing you know the whole town is down there. Arnopol almost sounds coona$$ 
I'm just glad I've got a line in the water.
I'm just glad I've got a line in the water.
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MA112 anybody?
From Mike's post on the Big E forum:
"Ok---I'm REALLY excited about this cab. It sounds fantastic. It goes as loud as a 212, louder than a super 15, and louder than a 410. And it goes a lot lower.
It has one 12" woofer (Kappalite 3012LF and possibly a 4 ohm 3012LF) and four 3" Faital mid/tweets. Duke helped with the crossover. There are two mid switches. One takes out a big peak at about 1700 hz. But if you leave the filter off you get a serious but musical bite. The 3012lf also has a gentle rise of about 2.5db starting at about 550hz that just plateaus. With the filter switched off it gives a very nice slightly mid-forward sound. Or not. I'm using four of the Faital 3's to go lower than usual (that's why I'm using four) so that they overlap the woof. The newer waveguides (all current models) function very nicely in the vertical position. I was playing the 66 and the 112 back and forth at top volume for about 1 1/2 hours. Not advisable indoors. Had to stop because it felt like someone was standing on my solar plexus.
I was driving it with about 400 watts. It's pretty efficient at about 98db. 300 watts will drive it fine. This speaker would be rock and roll heaven with 200 watts of tube power....
.....The dimensions on the 112 are 32" tall, 15 1/2" wide and 18 1/2" deep. And 48#. (including the grill and Duratex---this one weighed 43# but I figured it would likely come out at 48#)
I have to mention this since it they go about the same volume---- the Bergantino CN212 is about the exact same size and weight. (just rotated 90 degrees). The Barefaced Big Twin is an inch bigger and a pound heavier. The 112 goes lower than either and to my taste sounds better.
It will have options of nice corner wheels and a corner handle on the top back edge for easy rolling. It will also have an option of a higher power handling 4" voice coil 12. And a Ciare tweet if you really want it."
From Mike's post on the Big E forum:
"Ok---I'm REALLY excited about this cab. It sounds fantastic. It goes as loud as a 212, louder than a super 15, and louder than a 410. And it goes a lot lower.
It has one 12" woofer (Kappalite 3012LF and possibly a 4 ohm 3012LF) and four 3" Faital mid/tweets. Duke helped with the crossover. There are two mid switches. One takes out a big peak at about 1700 hz. But if you leave the filter off you get a serious but musical bite. The 3012lf also has a gentle rise of about 2.5db starting at about 550hz that just plateaus. With the filter switched off it gives a very nice slightly mid-forward sound. Or not. I'm using four of the Faital 3's to go lower than usual (that's why I'm using four) so that they overlap the woof. The newer waveguides (all current models) function very nicely in the vertical position. I was playing the 66 and the 112 back and forth at top volume for about 1 1/2 hours. Not advisable indoors. Had to stop because it felt like someone was standing on my solar plexus.
I was driving it with about 400 watts. It's pretty efficient at about 98db. 300 watts will drive it fine. This speaker would be rock and roll heaven with 200 watts of tube power....
.....The dimensions on the 112 are 32" tall, 15 1/2" wide and 18 1/2" deep. And 48#. (including the grill and Duratex---this one weighed 43# but I figured it would likely come out at 48#)
I have to mention this since it they go about the same volume---- the Bergantino CN212 is about the exact same size and weight. (just rotated 90 degrees). The Barefaced Big Twin is an inch bigger and a pound heavier. The 112 goes lower than either and to my taste sounds better.
It will have options of nice corner wheels and a corner handle on the top back edge for easy rolling. It will also have an option of a higher power handling 4" voice coil 12. And a Ciare tweet if you really want it."
Crazy...
Questions that pop to mind: How does the voicing compare between the 112 and the Flex? Thinking of growly mids, here. How about voicing/volume potential/efficiency vs. the 66? What's the top end like? Dispersion vs. the "horizontal" models? How about when you're standing right on top of it?
I haven't even gotten my (2nd gen) 66 to top volume outdoors, yet. Indoors (especially if we're talking a living room, here) sounds like... I don't want to say.
I didn't see this one coming.
Questions that pop to mind: How does the voicing compare between the 112 and the Flex? Thinking of growly mids, here. How about voicing/volume potential/efficiency vs. the 66? What's the top end like? Dispersion vs. the "horizontal" models? How about when you're standing right on top of it?
I haven't even gotten my (2nd gen) 66 to top volume outdoors, yet. Indoors (especially if we're talking a living room, here) sounds like... I don't want to say.
I didn't see this one coming.
Very cool. Although it does step out a bit from the grab and go type cab. I wonder if MAS109 X 2 would keep up with it?
Wow, Chris
You're in Palatine? I'm in Wilmette. You should come over and hang!
MA112 anybody?
From Mike's post on the Big E forum:
"Ok---I'm REALLY excited about this cab. It sounds fantastic. It goes as loud as a 212, louder than a super 15, and louder than a 410. And it goes a lot lower.
It has one 12" woofer (Kappalite 3012LF and possibly a 4 ohm 3012LF) and four 3" Faital mid/tweets. Duke helped with the crossover. There are two mid switches. One takes out a big peak at about 1700 hz. But if you leave the filter off you get a serious but musical bite. The 3012lf also has a gentle rise of about 2.5db starting at about 550hz that just plateaus. With the filter switched off it gives a very nice slightly mid-forward sound. Or not. I'm using four of the Faital 3's to go lower than usual (that's why I'm using four) so that they overlap the woof. The newer waveguides (all current models) function very nicely in the vertical position. I was playing the 66 and the 112 back and forth at top volume for about 1 1/2 hours. Not advisable indoors. Had to stop because it felt like someone was standing on my solar plexus.
I was driving it with about 400 watts. It's pretty efficient at about 98db. 300 watts will drive it fine. This speaker would be rock and roll heaven with 200 watts of tube power....
.....The dimensions on the 112 are 32" tall, 15 1/2" wide and 18 1/2" deep. And 48#. (including the grill and Duratex---this one weighed 43# but I figured it would likely come out at 48#)
I have to mention this since it they go about the same volume---- the Bergantino CN212 is about the exact same size and weight. (just rotated 90 degrees). The Barefaced Big Twin is an inch bigger and a pound heavier. The 112 goes lower than either and to my taste sounds better.
It will have options of nice corner wheels and a corner handle on the top back edge for easy rolling. It will also have an option of a higher power handling 4" voice coil 12. And a Ciare tweet if you really want it."
Now you're talking.
I really like that you can set it up vertically!
Ok, doggone it how big will the 3015lf cab be? Since I can't sell mine I might as well wait till you get that one dialed in, and get the cabs sans woofer
Ok, doggone it how big will the 3015lf cab be? Since I can't sell mine I might as well wait till you get that one dialed in, and get the cabs sans woofer
Funny you should mention it. Tom's drawing it up now and I'll be building the MA115 next week. The "MA" (as opposed to the "MAS") line are meant to have everything of the MAS line--but maybe not quite as much of the hifi sophistication as the 6" cabs or the flexibility of the Flex cabs---at a much lower price point. (note to mods--a few posts ago someone asked about the differences between them). Just different tonal profile but NO compromises in low end response or ultimate power handling.
The MA115 will be big. Not sure exactly until tomorrow, but I'd ballpark it at 42" tall x 19 wide by about 23 deep.I'll probably do the "fridge" thing and have te rear top and bottom on an angle for the top handle and bottom casters. With side handles too. The cool thing is that I think I can get in under 75#. While it can accommodate a 3015LF I'm going to be offering it with the Faital 15HP1060 (4 or 8 ohms). While the excursion is similar to the 3015LF it has more than double the thermal power handling and a 4" voice coil instead of the 3" on the 3015LF. Which means that the Faital will exhibit more control and punch up until it bottoms out. But the bigger issue is power compression due to heat.
Ever have the feeling that by the end of a loud set that your volume seems to have gone down? Or that you have less lows? Find yourself thinking "man the band must have gotten louder because I have to turn up to compete"? As the voice coil heat builds up and the speaker has trouble dissipating the heat bunches of nasty stuff happens. Impedance goes up meaning that you get less power from your amp. So you turn up. Which heats it up more. And you have less low end and control.
A 4" voice coil will dissipate heat better than a 3" one. And a speaker with a 1000 watt rating (like the Faital) has better heat dissipation due to the cooling fins and venting for the voice coil. So it will exhibit better control before smacking the back plate and MUCH less power compression. And it has a stronger motor (weighs 5# more) which allows it even more control. Duke is using the 18" version in his Hathor 1855.
The MA115 will have the effective air moving capability of a 215.
One note---as was mentioned from my Big E forum post----obviously I like my cabs. But I'll tell you what--Jim Bergantino has the unique ability of making cabs that don't do anything wrong---and most things right. That's why his cabs are in such high demand. Alex Claber of Barefaced is one of the smartest guys in bass cab design---this dude is really knowledgeable.And he's OEM'ing great drivers. I'm happy to be vaguely competitive.
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Very close---the MA112 will go slightly louder---though I doubt you could tell. The 109's go slightly deeper.
I want to clarify something re. my, in retrospect, ambiguously phrased post above: When I said that cranking a 6x6 indoors would sound like, "I don't want to say..." I just meant that it would be really, unprintably loud -- as in I would have to use naughty words to describe how loud it would get. Or dB. But, in lieu of a reliable way to measure dB, naughty words.
When I say, "I didn't see this one coming," I mean the cab!
When I say, "I didn't see this one coming," I mean the cab!
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I liked what I saw with the simplicity and form factor of the MA109 but the 3012LF struck me as being a good fit for this model so I posed a question on Facebook, not knowing if it would go anywhere. It's exciting to see this development. I like that's it's large enough to be quite potent but not a fridge to haul around. I'll have to try one of these once the details are worked out and it's ready for production!
Would the box be too big if you made one of these with the Eminence 3012LF? (+6dB?)
April 8 at 9:25pm
Big E loudspeakers It would be about 20% larger
April 8 at 11:42pm
So maybe around 32"H x 15"W x 18"D like a modified RachE12? More than two 3" to balance the 12? ~60 lbs? Really like this concept and think it would hammer with the 3012LF while still being manageable. Also a little more focus with Qts around .32?
April 9 at 10:07pm
Big E loudspeakers Yes, we agree. The trick would be taming the inherent 1.5KHz spike and then the sharp drop in response beyond 2KHz without using a 3 way setup. The 3" might be up to the job if used in quantity. We'll go after it if there is interest.
April 9 at 10:13pm
Big E loudspeakers We had an emergency meeting. The MA-112 is a go!
April 9 at 11:07pm
Nice! Duke Lejeune knows how to tame those spikes and use the 3012LF in a good 2-way setup with that 3" Faital. I believe you two have collaborated before. ; )
April 10 at 9:30pm
Big E loudspeakers We have the cabinet designed today. It looks like the spike will NOT be an issue. It lies in a region that can be useful for electric bass and is only a few Db in our waveguide. Mike will be offering a switch to enable and disable a filter on that target region.
April 10 at 9:34pm
That's good news. Man you guys don't waste any time! What did you come up with for the 3" driver layout? I had pictured a cross-fired pair top and bottom, similar to their position in the MA109 but toed in along their horizontal centerline to improve dispersion. Curious if my guess was even close. I like what Mike does with those voicing switches. Very cool!
April 10 at 9:56pm
Big E loudspeakers Some things will have to remain a surprise...
April 10 at 9:58pm
Fair enough, it makes the unveiling that much better.
April 10 at 10:00pm
I see the MA-112 is now a reality. Nice work gentlemen. It seems to have turned out well, and only 48 lbs...
Yesterday at 2:21pm
Big E loudspeakers Thank you. Mike is still tweaking the voicing. The MA-112 will be the flagship of the MA Value lineup. It even has a switchable filter to take it from Rock Monster to Sophisticated Man About Town at and estimated cost of $875 it should be the best value in the line.
Would the box be too big if you made one of these with the Eminence 3012LF? (+6dB?)
April 8 at 9:25pm
Big E loudspeakers It would be about 20% larger
April 8 at 11:42pm
So maybe around 32"H x 15"W x 18"D like a modified RachE12? More than two 3" to balance the 12? ~60 lbs? Really like this concept and think it would hammer with the 3012LF while still being manageable. Also a little more focus with Qts around .32?
April 9 at 10:07pm
Big E loudspeakers Yes, we agree. The trick would be taming the inherent 1.5KHz spike and then the sharp drop in response beyond 2KHz without using a 3 way setup. The 3" might be up to the job if used in quantity. We'll go after it if there is interest.
April 9 at 10:13pm
Big E loudspeakers We had an emergency meeting. The MA-112 is a go!
April 9 at 11:07pm
Nice! Duke Lejeune knows how to tame those spikes and use the 3012LF in a good 2-way setup with that 3" Faital. I believe you two have collaborated before. ; )
April 10 at 9:30pm
Big E loudspeakers We have the cabinet designed today. It looks like the spike will NOT be an issue. It lies in a region that can be useful for electric bass and is only a few Db in our waveguide. Mike will be offering a switch to enable and disable a filter on that target region.
April 10 at 9:34pm
That's good news. Man you guys don't waste any time! What did you come up with for the 3" driver layout? I had pictured a cross-fired pair top and bottom, similar to their position in the MA109 but toed in along their horizontal centerline to improve dispersion. Curious if my guess was even close. I like what Mike does with those voicing switches. Very cool!
April 10 at 9:56pm
Big E loudspeakers Some things will have to remain a surprise...
April 10 at 9:58pm
Fair enough, it makes the unveiling that much better.
April 10 at 10:00pm
I see the MA-112 is now a reality. Nice work gentlemen. It seems to have turned out well, and only 48 lbs...
Yesterday at 2:21pm
Big E loudspeakers Thank you. Mike is still tweaking the voicing. The MA-112 will be the flagship of the MA Value lineup. It even has a switchable filter to take it from Rock Monster to Sophisticated Man About Town at and estimated cost of $875 it should be the best value in the line.
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