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Big E Speakers Part 4 - Quadraphenia
- Thread starter kesslari
- Start date
Which 3" & 10" drivers are in the MAS109? Guessing the two 3" mids in the 109 are the same as the ones in the MAS112? Is there just a single 10" available in the 109?
Also, how would two 8-ohm 109s compare in tone, SPL, & Vd to a single 4-ohm 112?
And how would a MAS66 fit into these comparisons? Can a MAS66 stand alone? Or is it better to use a sub in conjunction?
Are there any response charts available for any/all of these? Somewhere?
Also, how would two 8-ohm 109s compare in tone, SPL, & Vd to a single 4-ohm 112?
And how would a MAS66 fit into these comparisons? Can a MAS66 stand alone? Or is it better to use a sub in conjunction?
Are there any response charts available for any/all of these? Somewhere?
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Stephen Regier
Commercial User
- Apr 11, 2014
- 78
- 131
- Disclosures
- Co-Inventer and Co-Owner of Big E Loudspeakers Technology
The same Faital 3" mid-weets are used throughout the product lin
The same 3" Faital mid-tweets are used throughout the entire product line.
The MA-109 is offered as a single 10" entry level loudspeaker utilizing an Eminence BP102 woofer. It's response chart is on Mike's homepage and in its catalog entry. The MA-109 has a bit darker classic vibe when compared to the MAS-112 series more modern sound. Two MA-109s will have equivalent output two one 112. However, the MA-109 is the ONLY loudspeaker in the lineup with a full length MVW system providing uncompromising Vortexitude.
The MAS-66 is a full on stand alone unit. It does not need a subwoofer. It's extension is lower than the MAS-110S subwoofer. The MAS-66 is a smooth HiFi sounding loudspeaker with huge output. Folks are adding the MAS-110S subwoofer for extra punch as its response in the 80 to 110 region has a few db bump.
There are some response graphs floating around but judging an MAS loudspeaker by its graph tells only a fraction of the story of its sound. In some cases the graph can be misleading when compared to the perceived sonic experience. For this reason we concentrate more effort on hearing an MVW loudspeakers in person (of which we are trying to do a better job).
I'll stop now and let others here relate.
Thanks so much Stephen
. Would you judge the MAS66 potential output to be along the lines of the MAS112 (greater?/less?), just more hi-fi as opposed to, oh, I don't know, maybe a more organic MAS112 tone? And yes, understand that apart from charts/graphs there's a "for real & for true" mojo-thang happening. Very intimate/immersive....Matt
I was just joking when I posted months ago about a 2x15
This will have to come with warning labels. Awesome.
This will have to come with warning labels. Awesome.
Stephen Regier
Commercial User
- Apr 11, 2014
- 78
- 131
- Disclosures
- Co-Inventer and Co-Owner of Big E Loudspeakers Technology
Here is the best way to compare MAS Loudspeakers:Thanks so much Stephen
...Matt
"All I'll say is the way to address ---in general---the volume of a cab for bass is looking at how much air it can move. This is expressed by the speaker's Vd.--orthe quantity of air moved. A higher-power 12" bass speaker is usually around 300 cc's. Most of the better 12" cabs use speakers with this capacity. Typically these drivers would have power ratings of 300 watts. I checked and the Boogie is rated at 600 watts.
When you get into the "super 12's " like Duke's and others the speaker can have a Vd of 496 cc's and a power rating of 450 watts. So---a 212 like Duke's or other "super" 212's would have a 900 watt power rating.
My cabs Vd. and power ratings
MAS46 600 cc's 600 watts
MAS 66 900 cc's 900 watts
MAS112 w/18Sound 900 cc's 800 watts
MAS112 w/Faital 900 cc's 1000 watts
MAS112 LPT 660 cc's 450 watts
MAS 210 Flex 1200 cc's 900 watts
Keep in mind---power ratings given are what it will take to fry the voice coil. Power for a speaker to fart out is lower---for mine or other manufacturers' speakers. A MAS46 will take 600 watt peaks but I'd recommend---lets say---400 watts continuous." M.A.
As far as the flavor of the sound of the various units I defer to others here who own and gig them.
I will add that the MAS 46 is a great stand alone cab in my experience, until I have to play a large venue or outdoors. Due to it's full range hi fi quality you can get great home music repro too. Or use it for small venue PA. It's a Swiss army Knife cab.
Matt, I had an older, 2-way 66 (6 Ohms nominal) and have an 18 Sound 112 now (8 Ohms nominal). Didn't have them at the same time (but close) and I've played them in some of the same places. Haven't hit the limits of either in a performance, but I feel like they'd be in the same ballpark, which Stephen's figures seem to bear out. The cab that the 112 has more or less retired and which for several years served as my frame of reference is a 2x12" loaded with two Faital 12FH500s and a 6.5" mid (no tweeter). The 112 goes at least as loud and handles a good deal more true low end. It kicks harder (more percussive impact in slap and staccato fingerstyle) and is more clear onstage and out in the audience. The tradeoff is that it requires a beefier amp to reach its potential. The 4 Ohm Faital version or the LPT version of the cab might be different in this regard, but I've only played mine with the 18 Sound.
112 is definitely voiced more like a traditional bass cab (more like my old 2x12") than the 66 was. Presentation is different - 112 is clear with great dispersion but 66 was more 3D. Voice (more forward, more mid-present) and feel of the 112 are more suited to my playing style, though.
The 46 I have on order with Mike will, I am guessing, split the difference between the 112 and the older 66, voicing-wise, but I won't know for sure until I play it.
Somewhere in the KXB500 amp thread I posted mic-ed clips of that amp, an F500, and a Mesa Walkabout through the 112. They were recorded solo at home - nowhere near gig volume - but might serve to give you an idea of the voice of the cab (of course influenced by my playing and EQ).
112 is definitely voiced more like a traditional bass cab (more like my old 2x12") than the 66 was. Presentation is different - 112 is clear with great dispersion but 66 was more 3D. Voice (more forward, more mid-present) and feel of the 112 are more suited to my playing style, though.
The 46 I have on order with Mike will, I am guessing, split the difference between the 112 and the older 66, voicing-wise, but I won't know for sure until I play it.
Somewhere in the KXB500 amp thread I posted mic-ed clips of that amp, an F500, and a Mesa Walkabout through the 112. They were recorded solo at home - nowhere near gig volume - but might serve to give you an idea of the voice of the cab (of course influenced by my playing and EQ).
I can add an anecdote to Mark's comment, above:
Been using the 18 sound version of the MAS112 cab since Mike first offered them. Found that my TH500 really didn't have quite enough power for it (TH500 into 8 ohm load = ~250 watts, AFAIK), so I switched to an MB800 (puts 500 into 8). Bada-bing! Clean and punchy. I'm continually amazed that I'm doing bar band gigs with no FOH, and I've never hit the limit of this _single 12_!
Here's the anecdote:
Got a call about a month ago to sub for one night with a really good local act. They're busy all the time, and very good musicians and singers. So I get the song list, discover I know only a few of their tunes (eeeeek!), spend the next five days cramming their repertoire like it's a calc exam or something, go do the gig, and (whew!) everybody is satisfied with what I did. The drummer makes a point of mentioning that he liked my tone, how it was so clean and punchy. It was the usual small stage setup, with my cab on his hi-hat side, but slightly in front of it because of space limitations. Keep in mind there was no instrument monitoring for him. It's one special cab that it sounded clean to him, off to the side and behind the box.
And a happy happy happy postscript to the story:
It was just a one night sub arrangement, but about a week ago the BL called me, said their regular bass player wanted to be replaced, and offered the chair to me. It's a great opportunity for me. First gig as a regular member is this weekend, and there's a side project coming up the following week backing a name country female vocalist on a broadcast TV show.
MAS112: more than just a cab. It's a mojo bone!
Been using the 18 sound version of the MAS112 cab since Mike first offered them. Found that my TH500 really didn't have quite enough power for it (TH500 into 8 ohm load = ~250 watts, AFAIK), so I switched to an MB800 (puts 500 into 8). Bada-bing! Clean and punchy. I'm continually amazed that I'm doing bar band gigs with no FOH, and I've never hit the limit of this _single 12_!
Here's the anecdote:
Got a call about a month ago to sub for one night with a really good local act. They're busy all the time, and very good musicians and singers. So I get the song list, discover I know only a few of their tunes (eeeeek!), spend the next five days cramming their repertoire like it's a calc exam or something, go do the gig, and (whew!) everybody is satisfied with what I did. The drummer makes a point of mentioning that he liked my tone, how it was so clean and punchy. It was the usual small stage setup, with my cab on his hi-hat side, but slightly in front of it because of space limitations. Keep in mind there was no instrument monitoring for him. It's one special cab that it sounded clean to him, off to the side and behind the box.
And a happy happy happy postscript to the story:
It was just a one night sub arrangement, but about a week ago the BL called me, said their regular bass player wanted to be replaced, and offered the chair to me. It's a great opportunity for me. First gig as a regular member is this weekend, and there's a side project coming up the following week backing a name country female vocalist on a broadcast TV show.
MAS112: more than just a cab. It's a mojo bone!
Congrats on picking up the gig. Very cool!
I just picked up a Tonehammer 500 and I was shocked with how loud it could get through the MAS112. Of course, there's a big difference between the living room loud and gig loud. Mark said that the 18Sound is really more like 6 Ohms and some change, so it probably can do more like 300 to 325. Still not as much as the 800 for sure.
I also tried the MB800. Definitely clean and punchy, but not really my tone. I much prefer the tone hammer tone. But I can also see why it could work well in a gig situation.
Thanks, man.
Yeah, I gigged the TH500 into the MAS112 quite a while. I kept lighting up the clip indicator a good bit when I dialed up enough volume and bottom end to suit the mix of the band I was with. (Yeah, it would get loud sometimes.) I know that it's different from other amps in that it'll happily run all night with the light on, but at that point I was getting a little more grit than I wanted, and not quite the transient response I was looking for. I'm pretty much a neat freak, tonewise, and I was pushing it past its clean zone.
That is a terrific micro head, though. My buddy keeps trying to buy it off me and I keep saying no.
I prolly should try it with the new band. On that sub date I didn't need as much volume, so it might be the ticket. Like you, I really dig the sound of the TH500.
Yeah, I gigged the TH500 into the MAS112 quite a while. I kept lighting up the clip indicator a good bit when I dialed up enough volume and bottom end to suit the mix of the band I was with. (Yeah, it would get loud sometimes.) I know that it's different from other amps in that it'll happily run all night with the light on, but at that point I was getting a little more grit than I wanted, and not quite the transient response I was looking for. I'm pretty much a neat freak, tonewise, and I was pushing it past its clean zone.
That is a terrific micro head, though. My buddy keeps trying to buy it off me and I keep saying no.
I prolly should try it with the new band. On that sub date I didn't need as much volume, so it might be the ticket. Like you, I really dig the sound of the TH500.
1st Generation MAS46. Who has experience with them? Played? Heard? Comments? Thoughts?
A tweeter, but no mids in this cab. Anyone who does know something about this cab, have you also played/heard a 2nd or 3rd Generation 46? Comparisons?
A tweeter, but no mids in this cab. Anyone who does know something about this cab, have you also played/heard a 2nd or 3rd Generation 46? Comparisons?
Last edited:
- Dec 21, 2007
- 15,227
- 45,059
- Disclosures
- Lark in the Morning Instructional Videos; Audix Microphones
Mntngrown, thanks for this. T-Bone Ted suffered a massive stroke back in October, and is still relearning to talk and to use his paralyzed right side. The CD is the one we were working on (and had almost finished) before the stroke. It's an Americana blend of folk, jazz, and blues.
You don't want to know the costs of severe illness and months of hospitalization here in the US... Details in my sig or at Folk In A - Acoustic Music with Soul Thanks for your support.
@ialum: I have an original 46 among quite a few other MAS cabs. It’s loud, efficient and relatively even sounding. Deeper than most conventional cabs, but could benefit from a lower f3 IMO. The newer ones, of course, have this and other improvements too. The v. 1 is still a great cab by any standard, and has all the MVW magic.
Thank you very much. Yeah, that's pretty much what I thought. And also yes, in comparison to just about everything, still state-of-the-art.
Wondering how two 1st-Gen 46s would do as opposed to a single 3rd-Gen (current, right?) 66? 3 mids & more capable (I'm sure) 6s in the 66 vs eight of the original 6s in the two 46s. Could get into the 46s for ~$300-400 less. But I'm guessing that the single 66 can still outgun the two 46s. The main advantage from the 46s would be their modularity & the bucks in my pocket that I saved. But is that enough satisfaction? That's the question. Ha. The two 46s could still kick most other stuff to the curbside & take their lunch money. They'd only pale next to the contemporary 66. If I never hear a 66, I'd probably never be jealous. Maybe that's the trick ... be certain to never be around a 66
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Answer = MAS215Thank you very much. Yeah, that's pretty much what I thought. And also yes, in comparison to just about everything, still state-of-the-art.
Wondering how two 1st-Gen 46s would do as opposed to a single 3rd-Gen (current, right?) 66? 3 mids & more capable (I'm sure) 6s in the 66 vs eight of the original 6s in the two 46s. Could get into the 46s for ~$300-400 less. But I'm guessing that the single 66 can still outgun the two 46s. The main advantage from the 46s would be their modularity & the bucks in my pocket that I saved. But is that enough satisfaction? That's the question. Ha. The two 46s could still kick most other stuff to the curbside & take their lunch money. They'd only pale next to the contemporary 66. If I never hear a 66, I'd probably never be jealous. Maybe that's the trick ... be certain to never be around a 66
