Big E Speakers pt 3

[nostatic]

The Baers do handle upper mids quite elegantly. Great clarity but when you push them they don't get strident. Love the paper mid. Will be interesting to A/B the ML112 to the 45/110. I suspect the 45/110 will have more booty down low which is a good thing - would love to get my pant legs flapping without turning up stoopid loud.

 

[spiritbass]

I've tried other settings on my Flex 110, but keep returning to the most aggressive. This and the discussion of a more affordable model made me wonder if there would be a significant decrease in cost by offering a 'non-flex' version?

 

[Don Sibley]

Headroom is good.

This is one of the reasons I pulled the trigger on the 46. The 45 sounds really good but there are a few situations where I find myself at the limit for that cab.

Really excited!

 

[christw]

One thing that Nomatic and I have talked about a lot.

Headroom is everything. I was able to play lightly which actually gives you a bigger thump at the beginning of the note. If I turned down and played a bit harder the difference between the beginning "thump" and the trailing "boom". would have been less. So---at the volume I wanted to achieve there would be less difference in volume between the thump of the note and the extending pitch value of the note. The extended trail and pitch value of the note is what people hear essentially as your volume.
The "thump" decays quick enough that it's not noticed as your "volume".

So---if I used a smaller speaker that would give me (at its max) the correct volume trailing pitch portion of the note (which gives its perceived volume) the speaker wouldn't have the headroom to give the greater value of thump at the note beginning. That thump can be 3db higher than your essential volume. Which requires twice the amp volume and twice the speaker excursion.

Same for the amp---if the amp is near its limit to give the correct volume of the pitch portion of the note it wouldn't have the reserves to give that extra edge to the thump.

Does this make sense? Sorry about what might be an inarticulate meandering here.

Headroom is good.

That makes sense to me. It's that initial attack of the note that I dig so much. I need headroom!

 

[3rdcurve]

The note attack of the big E's is a huge part of their unique feel IMO. The first time I played with a pick through one of Mike's cabs it pretty much ruined me for all others.

 

[spiritbass]

We've been a bit on that back burner as far as this but we came up with a cool idea. It might suck---but I think it could be really nice.

10" cab with a 3" Faital tweet. The woofer would be lower powered than the one in the Flex cabs but have a higher output than most 10's. It would be about the same (or better) volume as any 210.

The cab would be the same as in the 110 sub. 26 x 13 x 14 and about 33#. And it would be VERY reasonably priced.

Sound like a good idea?

Yes. As a matter of fact, I think one would sound good in my living room.

 

[zorf]

Originally Posted by Mike Arnopol View Post
We've been a bit on that back burner as far as this but we came up with a cool idea. It might suck---but I think it could be really nice.

10" cab with a 3" Faital tweet. The woofer would be lower powered than the one in the Flex cabs but have a higher output than most 10's. It would be about the same (or better) volume as any 210.

The cab would be the same as in the 110 sub. 26 x 13 x 14 and about 33#. And it would be VERY reasonably priced.

Sound like a good idea?

Sounds like a GREAT idea.

I'm very interested.

 

[ric426]

We've been a bit on that back burner as far as this but we came up with a cool idea. It might suck---but I think it could be really nice.

10" cab with a 3" Faital tweet. The woofer would be lower powered than the one in the Flex cabs but have a higher output than most 10's. It would be about the same (or better) volume as any 210.

The cab would be the same as in the 110 sub. 26 x 13 x 14 and about 33#. And it would be VERY reasonably priced.

Sound like a good idea?

I'm very interested too.

 

[creabsley]

Interesting to hear you talking about the thump Mike.
I've been following this thread because I have a 110flex coming from Harley; my perspective is slightly different because although I play bass...it's organ bass.

The thump, aka the "attack transient" is achieved on an electric organ by "kicking the bass". Tapping a bass pedal at the start of the note with your foot, whilst playing the bass line with your left hand.


This sounds best when the kick note is different to the bass note. And weirdly enough when the kick note doesn't change.

The thump is the volume so the note itself can be quite quiet.

Like playing double bass with a good drummer; the volume comes from the bass drum and your bass note "tunes" the bass drum.

 

[zorf]

Originally Posted by Mike Arnopol View Post
We've been a bit on that back burner as far as this but we came up with a cool idea. It might suck---but I think it could be really nice.

10" cab with a 3" Faital tweet. The woofer would be lower powered than the one in the Flex cabs but have a higher output than most 10's. It would be about the same (or better) volume as any 210.

The cab would be the same as in the 110 sub. 26 x 13 x 14 and about 33#. And it would be VERY reasonably priced.

Sound like a good idea?

You could use one for practice or small gig.
two spread out and slightly splayed for pa or playback system.
Or two stacked.
You could set one or more of the speakers offset to the front baffle by 15 degrees, the flip the second cab so that they couple but you still get a bit of the cross firing effect of the flex.

 

[lelandcrooks]

Interesting to hear you talking about the thump Mike.
I've been following this thread because I have a 110flex coming from Harley; my perspective is slightly different because although I play bass...it's organ bass.

The thump, aka the "attack transient" is achieved on an electric organ by "kicking the bass". Tapping a bass pedal at the start of the note with your foot, whilst playing the bass line with your left hand.

This sounds best when the kick note is different to the bass note. And weirdly enough when the kick note doesn't change.

The thump is the volume so the note itself can be quite quiet.

Like playing double bass with a good drummer; the volume comes from the bass drum and your bass note "tunes" the bass drum.

Thanks for weighing in. This man has the patience of Jobe. Getting Harley all the stuff has been an exercise in futility for me. Every time I turn around I've forgotten or am out of something else needed for this cab. We are almost there now. 2 new caps for an xover change and he should have it all.

 

[Mark Sacchetti]

Mike any updates on the progress of the 46'ers?

 

[Mike Arnopol]

yes

Since the holidays are coming up Eminence is taking a bit longer---I got a confirmation that the drivers are going to ship on January 21. The cabs will be done and ready to go---as soon as I get the drivers the cabs can go out the next day.

An update on the entry-level-10" cab with the 3" Faital. Up and running.

 

[Mark Sacchetti]

Thanks Mike! Cool on the 103 . Any observations on the new cab?

 

[will33]

One thing that Nomatic and I have talked about a lot.

Headroom is everything. I was able to play lightly which actually gives you a bigger thump at the beginning of the note. If I turned down and played a bit harder the difference between the beginning "thump" and the trailing "boom". would have been less. So---at the volume I wanted to achieve there would be less difference in volume between the thump of the note and the extending pitch value of the note. The extended trail and pitch value of the note is what people hear essentially as your volume.
The "thump" decays quick enough that it's not noticed as your "volume".

So---if I used a smaller speaker that would give me (at its max) the correct volume trailing pitch portion of the note (which gives its perceived volume) the speaker wouldn't have the headroom to give the greater value of thump at the note beginning. That thump can be 3db higher than your essential volume. Which requires twice the amp volume and twice the speaker excursion.

Same for the amp---if the amp is near its limit to give the correct volume of the pitch portion of the note it wouldn't have the reserves to give that extra edge to the thump.

Does this make sense? Sorry about what might be an inarticulate meandering here.


Headroom is good.

With goals such as this, natural tone, accurate reproduction of nuances, etc. It makes total sense. Headroom in both amp and speaker.

 

[kringle77]

I for one would be interested in the more simple line if it uses the vortex technology.

 

[JGR]

I for one would be interested in the more simple line if it uses the vortex technology.

210 Flex, come on, you know you want it...

 

[kringle77]

Come on man, you know I'm weak!

 

[Mike Arnopol]

Thanks Mike! Cool on the 103 . Any observations on the new cab?

Just was playing the new 110/ Faital 3. And yes it is vortex technology. People ask about the crossfiring since there are just single drivers. You have to remember that the sound coming out of the ports is all the way down up to 4khz. The sound coming out of the ports cross fires with the front of the driver. So the crazy dispersion and lack of volume drop-off is still there.

The new one sounds much better than we had anticipated. I was able to get the cross over pretty seamless into the Faital 3. I didn't expect it to sound that great with recorded music. I was wrong. Steve just sat here with his mouth open. I can tell the tonal balance with various music tracks. I'd be happy to use it for hifi or pa. I just told someone yesterday (before I'd heard it) that it might not be good as a PA cab. I take that back.

The sound is different from the other MAS cabs.(well a little different).The Flex cabs are very focused and punchy. The "entry 10" cab is more of a wider note. Not upper bass bloat, but the envelope is different. I'd say it feels more like a reflex cab (as opposed to a sealed box) but just more immediate in the note beginning and MUCH better at note decay. I'd say ---in quoting JGR and Tom B.--the Flex sounds more like a sealed box with reflex extension---the "entry 10" feels more like a reflex box but without reflex slowness and overhang.

It goes the approximate volume of a good 210. 4 or 8 ohms. Oh--also--it's not super efficient. I'd say 95 to 96 db. A mini digital amp will work just fine for one in 4 ohms.

 

[3rdcurve]

210 Flex, come on, you know you want it...

+1