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Big E Speakers pt 3

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#281
Let's just toss this up to the thread denizens and lurkers:

I play an NS EUB (low B equipped) and elec. cello, and am currently using a Mesa WA. My volume needs are low to moderate, taken care of with one or two PJB 4Bs.

I really like the way the 4Bs sound, esp. now with the WA, but they are heavy for what they are, and i'd like to go lighter and louder.

Venues tend toward smaller spaces with an acoustic/folk/americana group with percussion and/or light kit + 2 acoustic gee tars.

I'd like to tryout the new fangled technology, but I'm torn between MAS25, 45, or 26. I think the 46 would be more than I'd need. I'm also wondering if ~150w from the WA is enough headroom to get these speakers 'going'. ;-)

Thanks folks.
 
#282
A scientist says to a colleague: Okay, your ideas work in practice, but do they work in theory? :D
 
#283
I'd like to tryout the new fangled technology, but I'm torn between MAS25, 45, or 26. I think the 46 would be more than I'd need. I'm also wondering if ~150w from the WA is enough headroom to get these speakers 'going'. ;-)

Thanks folks.
Click to expand...

It does take some power to get vortexin'. I'd see if Mike can build you a 4 ohm version of the new 46, then the WA will put out 300w and you would rule the world. :cool:

Remember, there's no such thing as "too much clean headroom..."
 
#284
So at lower volumes they sound more like a conventional near field direct radiators?

What would be the minimum and maximum power range for some of the different models?

And would a 4 ohm version be a bit louder, then?

looks the faitel drivers are only rated for ~ 30 watts?

thx
 
#285
shrigg said:
It does take some power to get vortexin'. I'd see if Mike can build you a 4 ohm version of the new 46, then the WA will put out 300w and you would rule the world. :cool:

Remember, there's no such thing as "too much clean headroom..."
Click to expand...

The new 46 is 4 ohms, but is more than i need. Id be putting the same, or a little more watts/speaker with an 8 ohm 26. Im actually wondering if a 2ohm switch would be possible, given that the dual 3" mids could be switched along with the woofers, but i know nothing of crossover design. :-)
 
#286
For the vortex to really kick in on the PA cabs you need to be in the 25-30% power range of the cabinet. It's there at lower levels, just subtle. I'd wager that's probably true in the bass cabs also, some of them are very similar. The more horsepower you feed these the better they get. It's important to right size your rig to get full vortexitude, at least in the PA world.
 
#287
I don't think that 150 would be enough, but 300 would be fine.

The new 46 will be 4 ohms, but I do have some 8 ohm 6's to do a few 4 ohm 26's.

It's just economics, really. I had to make a choice on the OEM buy and decided to go with a 4 ohm 46 which means that I think that more guys will be buying the 46 as a single cab in which case the 4 ohm cab makes more sense.300 watts is plenty. You have to realize that even with 300 watts the vortex get's goin' at a much lower wattage---that's not the issue. What is is the dynamic headroom . MVW or standard cab---same game as far as dynamic headroom.

150 would be fine for a 45 for low to medium volume. I guess we're not really talking about what would sound good as opposed to how much power would drive a cab to it's dynamic limits.

I used a 140/channel watt amp to drive 2 45's in a stereo setup to an insanely loud volume.

Oh--the Faital 3's are indeed rated at 30 watts, but that's at 100hz. In the MAS 46 (and 26) cabs the 3 is crossed over above 1800 hz and for that it's way more than enough. When you look at the power handling of a speaker look at what they consider the usable frequency response. The power rating will be for the lowest frequency. If that rating is for 100 hz, than at one octave (200hz) the speaker would be seeing half that power. Half again for 400hz.

So---used as a tweeter it has plenty of power handling. That 100hz figure is more of an excursion failure point. Above 1k excursion would never be an issue with that driver. Thermal failure would. But it would be just fine--the 46's use a lower xover point than the new MA109.(single 10 with one 3) (that name was given by Tom and Steve--I think it's some sort of gun name---they are ex military and hunters---they like the gun names)
Which is why I use three of the 3's on the 46 but can get away with one one the MA109---the xover point is high enough that I can get away with one. I've pumped over 400 watts into a 109 without a hint of strain. (with the exception of objects falling off of my fireplace mantle).
 
#288
coyoteboy said:
The new 46 is 4 ohms, but is more than i need. Id be putting the same, or a little more watts/speaker with an 8 ohm 26. Im actually wondering if a 2ohm switch would be possible, given that the dual 3" mids could be switched along with the woofers, but i know nothing of crossover design. :-)
Click to expand...

Building a 2 ohm 26 is no problem---if you have an amp comfortable with 2 ohms.

A two ohm switch (on a 46) is doable but expensive--you essentially have to have two crossovers. All crossover values change as impedance changes.
 
#290
That's an EA Doubler and an EA CXL12. The EA CXL12 isn't made anymore but it was my favorite EA speaker---if you can tame the mids. Without a parametric eq the mids can be a bit nasty, but very nice once eq'd.

I think I can say this as it's not in production---(without a hand slap)

I much prefer the 45 and 46 with upright. Actually, I got one of my favorite upright sounds with the 85--I play loud sometimes and one of the hardest things for me is to maintain the same sound as volume increases.

Also, I think that monstrous Golia bass has a lot to do with it!
 
#292
Mike Arnopol said:
That's an EA Doubler and an EA CXL12. The EA CXL12 isn't made anymore but it was my favorite EA speaker---if you can tame the mids. Without a parametric eq the mids can be a bit nasty, but very nice once eq'd.

I think I can say this as it's not in production---(without a hand slap)

I much prefer the 45 and 46 with upright. Actually, I got one of my favorite upright sounds with the 85--I play loud sometimes and one of the hardest things for me is to maintain the same sound as volume increases.

Also, I think that monstrous Golia bass has a lot to do with it!
Click to expand...

Can't wait to hear the 45 next month!
I'm gigging tonight with a Genz Benz Shuttle 9.2 and 1x12" neo cab ..... not happy with this as an upright rig but cool for electric.
 
#293
Shuttles sound good with any of the MAS cabs.

Streamliners sound great with the Flex cabs but are a bit too thick with the 45's or 46's IMO.

The woofer in the Flex cabs is very tight by nature so it offsets the tubbiness.

That being said--and to be honest I'm surprised with this--these cabs are pretty amp-friendly.

I'm not a huge fan of the GK's but I've had a bunch of guys here with them and they worked really nicely. Have to try the Carvins--they are so reasonably priced and offer so much power.
 
#294
Ok--just fired up a 45 with one channel of that amp.140 watts.

With electric bass. It went plenty loud and sounded great.

It's just that I know it would go a bit louder with more power. But less than I would have thought.

I guess ( and this is a stupid thing) that I (and we) tend to think of the power required to make our cabs go their absolute maximum volume without sounding like crap. Not "how many watts does it need to take care of the gig and sound good".

I think that even at 8 ohms 150 watts would sound great at low to medium volume.

Just tried the 110 and 210 Flex with the same amp. All of the speakers I tried sounded really nice and I really felt that the Vortex was going just fine. I thought that the 210 might not sound "energized" enough but it sounded great. A "well duh" moment for me. The 210 is 4 ohms so it was seeing 280 watts.

The Mesas put out "honest" watts ---as opposed to some others.

As long as you're not expecting that last bit of headroom without crapping out I feel that a Walkabout would be just fine.
 
#299
As of this afternoon I'm in the queue for an MA109 myself. Haven't heard or even seen one, but I'm confident that these guys know what they're doing.

Hope everyone has a great new year!
 
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