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Big E Speakers pt 3

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#441
Yeah---the Flux in ears. The pro's are not enough better to justify more than 2x the cost.

Some people don't dig in-ears. Most are not too comfortable. These are very small and the ergonomics are just right.
 
#445
Dig the tune, dig the groove. Nice job! Looks like a fun gig.

Listened on a crappy set of earbuds -- don't think they do the sound justice, but I can still tell that the low notes are nice and articulate.



nomatic said:
If y'all are curious at what the 21O sounds like in practical
application someone had a single camera at last nights show
that sounds like I remember....
Disclaimer...
I was last minute subbing and my playing is a little loose..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jNLcAZ5k2dE&list=UUsobwRWczjdHbz9M2mEop-w&feature=c4-overview
Click to expand...
 
#447
Mike Arnopol said:
BTW---I'm into in ear headphones. When I'm working I listen to music or books on tape all day . I just bought a pair of $50 in ear headphones recommended by a guy that reviews them that blew him away. A Danish gaming company called Steel Series. I have a pair of custom $1100 JH13's. (best in ears on the planet) The Steel Series are no joke. And $50! Unbelieveable low end and tiny and comfortable.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the rec! I picked these up off Amazon Prime and just got them. Really impressive for a 50 buck pair of in ears and very light. Compare fairly favorably to my much nicer Ultimate Ears triple.fi 10's.
 
#448
Mike Arnopol said:
BTW---I'm into in ear headphones. When I'm working I listen to music or books on tape all day . I just bought a pair of $50 in ear headphones recommended by a guy that reviews them that blew him away. A Danish gaming company called Steel Series. I have a pair of custom $1100 JH13's. (best in ears on the planet) The Steel Series are no joke. And $50! Unbelieveable low end and tiny and comfortable.
Click to expand...

I saw that they make a Pro version of these too. I wonder if it's worth paying twice as much to get the "Balanced armature technology" if the regular 6mm dynamic drivers are as good as you say. Hmmm
 
#449
ricosego said:
I saw that they make a Pro version of these too. I wonder if it's worth paying twice as much to get the "Balanced armature technology" if the regular 6mm dynamic drivers are as good as you say. Hmmm
Click to expand...

Mike Arnopol said:
Yeah---the Flux in ears. The pro's are not enough better to justify more than 2x the cost.

Some people don't dig in-ears. Most are not too comfortable. These are very small and the ergonomics are just right.
Click to expand...
Click to expand...

~already addressed~
 
#450
If y'all want to catch round187 of flame wars and technobabble head over to the DB amps section. Tom Ewars and Duke are the in full force. Probably about 100 posts in the past few days. It's usually pretty sedate over there.
 
#451
Hey Mike,

I adore my new 21O flex and I shouldn't even ask this
but..............
I have certain smaller gigs that I would love to have the
same clarity and impact of the 21O but a smaller package.
(Pulling the 21O into my wine bar gig is overkill to say the least!}
There was some talk of a 11O flex on top of a 11O sub back in
the thread some where. My question is this something y'all
are going to do and would it be the sonic equivalent of what I
have. The modular thing would be so hip?
 
#452
It's funny because Steve and I have been talking about this. Really because this here 58 year old is addicted to playing the 210 and was thinking of a way to make the schlep a bit easier.
To think that 10 years ago we were all hauling around 100# 410's!

We will be offering a 210 Flex and a 210Flex Modular.

It will essentially be a 210 cut in two. It will be visually the same as the 110 Flex and 110 sub but the crossover will be completely different. Problem is that I want the user to be able to use the top section as a stand alone and add the sub and have the completely functional equivalent of 210.

Problem is that the crossover is now voiced for the 210. If we just used the 110 crossover we wouldn't have the bright setting of the 210. If we just used the 210 crossover the bright setting would be wayyyy too much for the top section as a stand alone. Here's what we're going to do. The bottom switch on either Flex is a phase switch. It's kindof cool but most guys leave it in phase all of the time. We'll replace that with an additional contour switch which will yield in conjunction with the existing switches 3 mid section voicings. That way it will have both the mid voicings of the 110 Flex and the 210 Flex in a modular package. The only difference will be that it won't have the bottom wheels as they won't be necessary.

I don't know if it would interest anyone else. The concept started for my own personal use.

Man---I made so many spelling errors likely because I'm really pertoibed (as Curly might say) at a certain guy who's now moved to the DB side to do his best to derail things.
 
#453
nomatic said:
Hey Mike,

I adore my new 21O flex and I shouldn't even ask this
but..............
I have certain smaller gigs that I would love to have the
same clarity and impact of the 21O but a smaller package.
(Pulling the 21O into my wine bar gig is overkill to say the least!}
There was some talk of a 11O flex on top of a 11O sub back in
the thread some where. My question is this something y'all
are going to do and would it be the sonic equivalent of what I
have. The modular thing would be so hip?
Click to expand...

So, sell me your Flex when the modular one is ready?

:D
 
#454
Moderator (and excellent bassist and teacher) Chris Fitzgerald stepped in on the DB thread and did a very nice job of setting things straight--and I'm very appreciative.
 
#455
The interwebs at work.

I've participated in some of the "does wood matter?" and other threads where people trot out "science" (usually mis-applied) as "proof" that negates things that many experienced people find to be true.

In the end, gear can be distilled down to numbers, but making music cannot. And to the extent that gear is inextricably intertwined with the humans that make the music, that quantification of the gear begins to fall apart.

If it sounds good and makes the player happy, it is good. And the reality is that different players have different needs and wants, and often have different ideas of what constitutes their "ideal" sound. No instrument is perfect - they are all compromises and the designer makes decisions to get close to their own ideal. And then it either works for others, or it doesn't.

But if you don't actually make music, then you really can only get hung up on the numbers and theoretical aspects of the instruments...
 
#456
nostatic said:
The interwebs at work.

I've participated in some of the "does wood matter?" and other threads where people trot out "science" (usually mis-applied) as "proof" that negates things that many experienced people find to be true.

In the end, gear can be distilled down to numbers, but making music cannot. And to the extent that gear is inextricably intertwined with the humans that make the music, that quantification of the gear begins to fall apart.

If it sounds good and makes the player happy, it is good. And the reality is that different players have different needs and wants, and often have different ideas of what constitutes their "ideal" sound. No instrument is perfect - they are all compromises and the designer makes decisions to get close to their own ideal. And then it either works for others, or it doesn't.

But if you don't actually make music, then you really can only get hung up on the numbers and theoretical aspects of the instruments...
Click to expand...

Boy, I wish I could state things that clearly. That pretty much says it all.

I'm at the bottom end of the talent and experience spectrum compared to probably all of the people I've read in this thread, but the notion that "If it sounds good and makes the player happy, it is good." applies to someone at my level too. I don't really care if it's an array of paper cups and string, if it sounds good and inspires me, then it's valid.

According to accepted aerodynamic principles, Bumblebees shouldn't be able to fly. There are probably plenty of graphs to prove it too. Apparently, the bees don't have a good grasp of aerodynamics or graphs, but they fly anyway.
 
#458
ric426 said:
According to accepted aerodynamic principles, Bumblebees shouldn't be able to fly. There are probably plenty of graphs to prove it too. Apparently, the bees don't have a good grasp of aerodynamics or graphs, but they fly anyway.
Click to expand...
I don't think I'm doing you a disservice if I point out this is just a myth, not differently than the speaker underpowering myth* - oft repeated, but a myth nonetheless:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bumblebee#Misconceptions
Even if it hadn't debunked, the explanation for the discrepancy couldn't be but inadequacy of our current knowledge of aerodynamics or bumblebee physiology; certainly not magic, or "art" on the bee's part! :)

*Funny thing is, I first heard of both here on TB, and believed neither, not even for the time it took getting to the next sentence in which they were debunked...


I get the general point you were making: there are aspects of human perception that are difficult or impossible to quantify.
Having not heard them, I believe these cabs sound all kinds of wonderful (already stated I'm GASsing for one), I'm rooting for these guys to succeed, I really hope they have found a new alignment, I can wait for measurements and third party evaluations to come out. (Heck, I'm willing to wait for anything I'm not involved with...:ninja:)
I suppose it's just that the extraordinary claims made smack so much of snake oil to some guys that they demand the same free rein in making fun of them that they've had on this board for other makers. And there's been a lot of fun-making around here, partly because of internet tough-guy attitude, partly by people feeling like "friends don't let friends play brand X cabs" was their mission.

Carry on with satisfied customer stories, they're all that matters to me.
 
#459
ric426 said:
According to accepted aerodynamic principles, Bumblebees shouldn't be able to fly. There are probably plenty of graphs to prove it too. Apparently, the bees don't have a good grasp of aerodynamics or graphs, but they fly anyway.
Click to expand...

This reminds me of what I've started saying about fish in the past few years. Even though they hang in schools, fish can't read fishing conditions charts. The upshot is that I can catch them when conditions are supposed to be poor. :smug:
 
#460
HaphAsSard said:
I don't think I'm doing you a disservice if I point out this is just a myth, not differently than the speaker underpowering myth* - oft repeated, but a myth nonetheless:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bumblebee#Misconceptions
Even if it hadn't debunked, the explanation for the discrepancy couldn't be but inadequacy of our current knowledge of aerodynamics or bumblebee physiology; certainly not magic, or "art" on the bee's part! :)

*Funny thing is, I first heard of both here on TB, and believed neither, not even for the time it took getting to the next sentence in which they were debunked...


I get the general point you were making: there are aspects of human perception that are difficult or impossible to quantify.
Having not heard them, I believe these cabs sound all kinds of wonderful (already stated I'm GASsing for one), I'm rooting for these guys to succeed, I really hope they have found a new alignment, I can wait for measurements and third party evaluations to come out. (Heck, I'm willing to wait for anything I'm not involved with...:ninja:)
I suppose it's just that the extraordinary claims made smack so much of snake oil to some guys that they demand the same free rein in making fun of them that they've had on this board for other makers. And there's been a lot of fun-making around here, partly because of internet tough-guy attitude, partly by people feeling like "friends don't let friends play brand X cabs" was their mission.

Carry on with satisfied customer stories, they're all that matters to me.
Click to expand...

HaphAsSard, it's all good. You sort of got my point, but whether the whole Bumblebee fight thing is true or a myth is secondary in terms of what I was saying. The world does what it does, whether we've correctly analyzed, documented, measured and graphed it or not. Of course Bumblebee flight has nothing to do with magic or Bumblebee art, and it wouldn't matter to the Bumblebee if it did. They just do it, whether we can explain how or not. I think you and I are saying the same thing, just in different ways.

I view the development of Big E speakers in much the same way. They may have stumbled onto something new or not; it doesn't really matter to me whether it can be explained by applying Floyd's hoohah resonance theorem. Analysis is fine, but it's secondary to actual perceived performance. To me, the real world performance is a fact. If the analysis can't explain it, that calls the analysis into question, not my perception of the event. What I really care about is, do they sound good? A lot of people with real world credibility say they do and have bought them. That's enough to make me want to hear it for myself. When they introduced a more affordable model (MA109) I took a leap of faith and bought the first one and I'm glad I did. It sounds better than anything else I've played through and I think it was money well spent. It makes me happy to play through it. That's what I paid for.

I've also learned to overlook and ignore claims and techno-babble marketing terms. Heck, anyone who lives in our culture needs to be able to do that. I'm sure the Big E guys probably wish that they hadn't said some of the things they said when talking about what they were finding. I suspect they just got caught up in their enthusiasm. They're excited about what they're doing and want other people hear it. That's a good thing. If they're lucky, they might make a profit, but I doubt they'll get rich from it. It's a small market with a lot of competition.

Ultimately, I'm willing to overlook some unfounded claims if their speakers sound good and in my limited experience, the MA109 certainly does, even if it violates Fudd's 1st Law or something. (Bonus points to anyone who can identify that reference.)
 
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