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Big E Speakers pt 3
- Thread starter john turner
- Start date
- Status
When I take a break at work and go for a walk around the retention pond behind my office building I do so to enjoy the blue sky and warm sun on my face - it's just nice and pleasant. Yes, I know why the sky is blue and why tree leaves are green, but that's not what I'm thinking about (the science behind all of that). I'm just enjoying a nice day.
Having that knowledge is all good but it doesn't really enhance the experience. If having that knowledge helps you improve a product that you built to enjoy, then it enhances the experience - but since I didn't make the tree or the sun, it doesn't really matter to me. I just enjoy them.
FWIW, I took a leap of faith when I bought a Dingwall some years ago. It was great, wish I still had that bass. I'd do the same with one of these (and will when I'm able). I'm so 'over' all the emotional commentary about specs, numbers, "the best motor oil for metal" and all that other garbage.
Can't wait to try one out. May be later than sooner but I'm a glut for stuff that's different and a 210 Flex would fit my needs nicely.
Raz
Having that knowledge is all good but it doesn't really enhance the experience. If having that knowledge helps you improve a product that you built to enjoy, then it enhances the experience - but since I didn't make the tree or the sun, it doesn't really matter to me. I just enjoy them.
FWIW, I took a leap of faith when I bought a Dingwall some years ago. It was great, wish I still had that bass. I'd do the same with one of these (and will when I'm able). I'm so 'over' all the emotional commentary about specs, numbers, "the best motor oil for metal" and all that other garbage.
Can't wait to try one out. May be later than sooner but I'm a glut for stuff that's different and a 210 Flex would fit my needs nicely.
Raz
Floyd's hoohah resonance theorem
Fudd's 1st Law
I'm Googling these right now!
M. M.
Well, I made up the Floyd's hoohah resonance theorem reference, but good luck with the other. Google is too easy though. I'd be more impressed if someone knows it from memory. Ya gotta be old like me though.
There's also Teslacle's Deviant to Fudd's 1st Law...
I'm in Chicago and don't want to hear about your Florida sun!
One thing I want to mention. I've had it mentioned that I might be a bit too enthusiastic in talking about my cabs. I think they're right and apologize. It's unfair as a commercial user to be going on and on on my personal experiences with them. They might at times be somewhat insightful (most often just emotional ramblings) but they can inadvertently contribute toward creating an uneven playing field for other cab makers. Or appear as an attempt to create that.
I think that it's critical that we various manufacturers work toward creating an environment of camaraderie and support toward each other.Then we all win.
I knew that. I should have moved my smilie face up one line. And added a wink. Or a big grin. But I hardly ever add a big grin. Seldom is anything that funny on TB. This is the best that I can do.
M. M.
Answers.com says: From a 1971 Firesign Theater skit. Fud's First Law of Opposition states "If you push something hard enough, it will fall over"
I like it.
When I invested in my 110 Flex, I was afraid it would be too much for the room I play in. I'm glad I went for it, because both of my pastors like it loud. I brought my new Dingwall four-string ash/maple/maple Super P to practice Tuesday evening. I set the cab to "dark" (the phase switch stays "in") and switched off the tweeter. I wish I was as good at describing cab response as Mike and some of the other serious players here on TB, but I am not. With the neodymium Dingwall pickup and the wood combination, the Super P brings plenty of energy across the spectrum, including the high end. The Faital drivers are simply amazing and so pleasing to my ears. Considering the beautiful high frequency response they deliver, it's a misnomer to simply refer to them as a midrange driver.
Anyway, it was a good, fun practice, and I sure did enjoy what I would consider the 'perfect precision tone'. 
We have a winner! Anyone here old enough to remember Firesign Theater?
BTW, Teslacle's Deviant to Fudd's 1st Law states:
"It goes in -- it must come out."
I have graphs to prove it...
Now back to our regularly scheduled Big E thread.
Thomas Ewers
Commercial User
- Dec 21, 2007
- 15,230
- 45,089
- Disclosures
- Lark in the Morning Instructional Videos; Audix Microphones
- Nov 24, 2008
- 4,343
- 7,163
- Disclosures
- Owner & designer, AudioKinesis; Auth. mfg, Big E (Home Audio only)
I recently spent some time with Mike's "46" cab, the forthcoming one with three Faital 3" cones and a single Ciare tweet to round out the spectrum. I listened to it side-by-side with one of my designs that I'm working on.
Not being a bass player, I use a variety of recorded music, including some direct feeds that TalkBass member Ironjaw recorded for me. One of the discs I use is Michael Manring's "Soliloquy", which is just Michael and his bass, with no overdubs. I heard things happening way down low through Mike's cab that I've never heard through one of my bass cabs, though I did hear it when I was playing the recording through a high end home audio system with subwoofers. This thing goes deep, and hits hard. No it's not a 210 Flex, but it is still extremely capable. While my cab was louder at low volume levels, when I cranked up the power, the 46 caught up, and it's possible that at still higher levels it would have passed up my cab.
I hesitate to make a claim as to the bottom end extension of this cabinet, as my measurement setup is really geared more to the midrange and treble region, where I do my crossover work. But I did run some full-spectrum sweeps which, when compared with other sweeps I've done using the same speaker and microphone placement, make me think lower 40's would be a reasonable claim. That number doesn't begin to tell the story though - the real story is the impact and articulation in the low end, but I don't have a way to measure that.
So how are the mids and highs? Well that's the area I was working on (crossover design), and I want to wait until Mike has evaluated it. He had a particular target in mind.
If I were to say that this cab scares the spit out of me, I would be committing a spelling error. It does.
I told Mike that, and he was kind enough to make some suggestions as to things I can do with the more conventional technology I'm using, and I appreciate that very much.
I put in my request to do a high-end home audio version of Mike's 46 (but with different drivers all around, and a short pedestal base, so it won't be an outright copy). That's how impressed I am with this cab.
Not being a bass player, I use a variety of recorded music, including some direct feeds that TalkBass member Ironjaw recorded for me. One of the discs I use is Michael Manring's "Soliloquy", which is just Michael and his bass, with no overdubs. I heard things happening way down low through Mike's cab that I've never heard through one of my bass cabs, though I did hear it when I was playing the recording through a high end home audio system with subwoofers. This thing goes deep, and hits hard. No it's not a 210 Flex, but it is still extremely capable. While my cab was louder at low volume levels, when I cranked up the power, the 46 caught up, and it's possible that at still higher levels it would have passed up my cab.
I hesitate to make a claim as to the bottom end extension of this cabinet, as my measurement setup is really geared more to the midrange and treble region, where I do my crossover work. But I did run some full-spectrum sweeps which, when compared with other sweeps I've done using the same speaker and microphone placement, make me think lower 40's would be a reasonable claim. That number doesn't begin to tell the story though - the real story is the impact and articulation in the low end, but I don't have a way to measure that.
So how are the mids and highs? Well that's the area I was working on (crossover design), and I want to wait until Mike has evaluated it. He had a particular target in mind.
If I were to say that this cab scares the spit out of me, I would be committing a spelling error. It does.
I told Mike that, and he was kind enough to make some suggestions as to things I can do with the more conventional technology I'm using, and I appreciate that very much.
I put in my request to do a high-end home audio version of Mike's 46 (but with different drivers all around, and a short pedestal base, so it won't be an outright copy). That's how impressed I am with this cab.
This verifies what I've always maintained, "If you push something hard enough, it must come out." Unfortunately, I don't have a graph to prove it.
And how about those Big E speaker cabs? Had a nice chat with Mike yesterday. He's a classy guy, and was very helpful with my numerous questions.
M. M.
Great selfless testimonial from a great builder/ designer. I am sure Duke Leland and Mike will reap the rewards from this technology as more and more people become aware of how great these units sound.
- Dec 21, 2007
- 15,230
- 45,089
- Disclosures
- Lark in the Morning Instructional Videos; Audix Microphones
And... My order is in for a 210 Flex Modular.
It's official.
I've gone off the deep end.
Welcome to the deep end! C'mon in, the water's fine. (It's been tested and we have graphs)
You will dig it. Now I gotta come to your gigs to hear the latest PM'd you about a quick fill in I am doing Sat, if you want to hear the 4x8
And... My order is in for a 210 Flex Modular.
It's official.
I've gone off the deep end.
Welcome to the wait list!
Yes, indeedy! "Our pastor, Rod Flash... He's been UP for a WEEK!!! But he's coming... down."
Marcus
So you compared it to one of your own designs (which are completely different), so what about designing a 4x6(the same drivers) as a regular bassreflex, a horn-reflex and a horn and compare those to the 46?
I know (well designed)horns have great impact and articulation too and that's mostly due to the fact that they couple better with the surrounding air and that the cone-excursion is massively reduced resulting in less harmonic,- and intermodulationdistortion.
lelandcrooks
Commercial User
I have done this. Long ago with the original 46 design for PA. Which is currently on hiatus pending further development. I compared it to 2 different very well designed horn loaded cabs, approximately the same physical size, a 10 and a 12.
The horn loaded cabs were louder with less power. But at a certain point the MVW cab caught up and passed them by in total output. Below the power handling capabilities of all of them. Without any processing the MVW cab was superior, by a pretty good margin. The horns with enough eq could match the quality of the sound, but not the impact. MVW boxes articulate the sound like nothing else. I had one customer describe it as "Each frequency seems to sit in it's own pocket".
I have not compared it to a bass reflex. I don't do bass reflex cabs, except by request. It must be a self flagellation thing, if it's not hard to build, it's not in my shop. Speaker in a box gets pretty boring.
The horn loaded cabs were louder with less power. But at a certain point the MVW cab caught up and passed them by in total output. Below the power handling capabilities of all of them. Without any processing the MVW cab was superior, by a pretty good margin. The horns with enough eq could match the quality of the sound, but not the impact. MVW boxes articulate the sound like nothing else. I had one customer describe it as "Each frequency seems to sit in it's own pocket".
I have not compared it to a bass reflex. I don't do bass reflex cabs, except by request. It must be a self flagellation thing, if it's not hard to build, it's not in my shop. Speaker in a box gets pretty boring.
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