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Biggest mistake a band ever made

#401
JMacBass65 said:
OK - gotta get back to band mistakes before this gets any weirder.

In an effort to get a quick OT post out there, I'll go back to my first one re: The Replacements. The book I cited is full of personal and band self sabotage. Many of career killing stunts were on stage, others were in the offices of record company execs, others on the road, on radio, and so on. No one thing doomed them, but getting hammered for your national TV debut, on SNL no less, and then dropping an F bomb (nearly inaudible IMHO) certainly rates rather high on the list of errors. Do NOT piss off Lorne Michaels.

BTW - The video is tilted to avoid NBC/Warner Bros detection.

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I just read the story from a book excerpt published on Rolling Stone, and man, how uptight could Lorne Michaels be??? Sure, his head was on the chopping block over sagging ratings and lousy shows, but those guys killed (and I'm not even a fan), and nobody heard Paul say the F word. I think the most disturbing thing about the whole thing was Bob Stinson getting into a fight with his girlfriend and beating her afterward. But holy cow, how could you not enjoy a performance like that?
 
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#402
catcauphonic said:
JMac, is that you stomping around and choking that ric like it just insulted your mom?!? You looking goood :thumbsup: Was it Paul that dropped the f-bomb while stepping away from the mic?
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LOL!! In my next life I want to come back as Tommy Stinson! :thumbsup:

Actually, not, he led a life that should have killed him, and likely would have killed me. But he is always fun to watch, and a great songwriter in his own right.

Unlike many here on TB, my path to a Rickenbacker was through Mick Mills and Tommy Stinson, not Geddy, Chris Squire and Sir Paul.

Me abusing my Rick while wearing a Bash and Pop shirt in this pic (TS first post 'mats project), 1992 I think.

IMG_0785.jpg


I can even add to the "band mistake" theme with this picture. I remember arriving at this gig at Winstons in Georgetown, Washington DC. This was a "big one" for us as we expected a large contingent of college students would be there. I remember asking one of the bartenders what sort of crowd the place gets. Her response was "depends on how good the band is." My cocky and slightly arrogant reply was "Oh, then it'll be packed tonight."

Let's just say that as an unknown band with no connections to the school, playing originals.....well......nobody cared. What started as only a decent crowd early on quickly dissipated over the course of the evening. The cute bartender was not smiling at me when she paid us out, and I felt like a schmuck. :bag:
 
#403
JMacBass65 said:
LOL!! In my next life I want to come back as Tommy Stinson! :thumbsup:

Actually, not, he led a life that should have killed him, and likely would have killed me. But he is always fun to watch, and a great songwriter in his own right.

Unlike many here on TB, my path to a Rickenbacker was through Mick Mills and Tommy Stinson, not Geddy, Chris Squire and Sir Paul.

Me abusing my Rick while wearing a Bash and Pop shirt in this pic (TS first post 'mats project), 1992 I think.

View attachment 1076021

I can even add to the "band mistake" theme with this picture. I remember arriving at this gig at Winstons in Georgetown, Washington DC. This was a "big one" for us as we expected a large contingent of college students would be there. I remember asking one of the bartenders what sort of crowd the place gets. Her response was "depends on how good the band is." My cocky and slightly arrogant reply was "Oh, then it'll be packed tonight."

Let's just say that as an unknown band with no connections to the school, playing originals.....well......nobody cared. What started as only a decent crowd early on quickly dissipated over the course of the evening. The cute bartender was not smiling at me when she paid us out, and I felt like a schmuck. :bag:
Click to expand...
Why I try never to act cocky.
 
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#404
JimmyM said:
I just read the story from a book excerpt published on Rolling Stone, and man, how uptight could Lorne Michaels be??? Sure, his head was on the chopping block over sagging ratings and lousy shows, but those guys killed (and I'm not even a fan), and nobody heard Paul say the F word. I think the most disturbing thing about the whole thing was Bob Stinson getting into a fight with his girlfriend and beating her afterward. But holy cow, how could you not enjoy a performance like that?
Click to expand...

Yeah - that performance killed! And I agree - you can't tell what he said - if I wasn't told what he said, I'd not even know. I remember hearing some others (might have been old cast members, or hosts maybe) talk about LM, that once the show became as big as it did, LM changed and became part of the larger network machine. At some point one inevitably has to start playing by the rules rather than breaking them. Or......you end up like the Replacements. It's a great book, but man, it gets depressing as it goes on. What starts as rebellious hi jinx turns really dysfunctional and nasty towards the end.

catcauphonic said:
Was it Paul that dropped the f-bomb while stepping away from the mic?
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Yeah, the bit you can't even hear. :rollno: Apparently he said it because Bob missed the cue at the blocking rehearsal earlier in the day and started the solo late.
 
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#406
JMacBass65 said:
Yeah - that performance killed! And I agree - you can't tell what he said - if I wasn't told what he said, I'd not even know. I remember hearing some others (might have been old cast members, or hosts maybe) talk about LM, that once the show became as big as it did, LM changed and became part of the larger network machine.
Click to expand...
Just like Devo's theory of de-evolution states...they said that rebellion is obsolete, and the only way to subvert the system is to become part of the system. But the more entrenched in the system you become, the more it subverts you and eventually takes you over and you become what you originally fought against. This story has de-evolution's greasy pawprints all over it!

Speaking of which, you can add Devo's own subversion into the system to the list of biggest mistakes a band ever made :D
 
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#407
JimmyM said:
Just like Devo's theory of de-evolution states...they said that rebellion is obsolete, and the only way to subvert the system is to become part of the system. But the more entrenched in the system you become, the more it subverts you and eventually takes you over and you become what you originally fought against. This story has de-evolution's greasy pawprints all over it!

Speaking of which, you can add Devo's own subversion into the system to the list of biggest mistakes a band ever made :D
Click to expand...

Interesting. Aside from well, heroin, I would think that this is one of the things that Cobain struggled with, becoming part of the machine and playing the game.
 
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#409
Sorry about all the Replacements posts, but since I have been reading the book I have been diving into YouTube to refresh my memory, and to see clips of things mentioned in the book to put certain things in context. Kinda useful actually.

Anyway, I was familiar with this next clip, and thought it was brilliant.......out of context.



My original view was - Here they are, on TV again, some obscure awards show. Weird setting for them, and they know it, Paul even says as they walk on "what the hell are we doing here" on mic. LOL! They play "Talent Show", what a perfect song for an awards show. And they kill it! The show censors the songs line "feelin' good from the pills we took", and Paul rolls his eyes. But he gets 'em back at the end, changing the lyrical refrain from "its too late to turn back, here we go" to "its too late to take pills, here we go", and says it three times, on air, not caught by the sensors. F'ING brilliant!! I was rolling the first time I saw this, and frankly, every other time. What a great act of defiance and not playing by the mans rules.

However, the back story in the book has me looking at it differently. They finally, after nine years, have a song moving up the charts, "I'll Be You" is at 51 on Billboard. Warner Bros is giving the album a big push, really behind the band this time. Everyone is excited. Their managers and Warner bros score them this gig on the International Rock Awards, a new awards show, national broadcast. Tina, Bowie, Keef, some other big names are appearing as well. Managemt, Warner Bros, the shows producers, all want the to play "I'll be You". Paul refuses, opting for talent show. The producers warn him they will censor the "pills" line. He decides to get it in anyway.

Again - brilliant act of R&R rebellion.

On the other hand, there were a lot of people, and a lot of money, working to get these guys what they supposedly wanted, a bigger audience, record sales, a chance to actually make some real money, and they once again, thumbed their noses at them all.

The 'mats were gone by the time the typical "all star jam" began at the end of the show. The book is vague about whether they were asked to leave or their people just got them out of there.
 
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#414
Keith Levene and John Lydon were in the process of relocating their band Public Image Limited from London to New York City, and decided it would be a good idea to book a NY gig to mark their local emergence. One small detail: they had no band. But somehow this only made the prospect more exciting to them.

The gig was at the Ritz, and the audio is to be found below. In summary, the audience allowed the duo 20 minutes of bluffing with a bit of drums and some muffed synth squawks before deciding they'd been had. Beer and cocktail glasses started to fly, and some angry punks down front tore down the pricey video screen that Lydon and Levene hid behind throughout the duration of the performance (PiL fancied themselves filmmakers but likewise failed to bring any footage to the gig).
Once the video screen was torn down, Lydon and Levene escaped up the back stairs as the audience stormed the stage and destroyed what gear the band had brought.

Lydon and Levene were photographed afterwards laughing their heads off, so they had fun, certainly, but nonetheless a poor effort in terms of building a local fan base.

 
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