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Double Bass Blast cult

#361
DonaldFraser said:
You couldn’t use any upright bass in the situations players like me are in. We have to amp up. So lack of volume and projection aren’t really an issue. But tone is and the KDB/BC tone is great in my opinion.
True he may lose some credibility with folks like you, but with how you’ve come off this entire time, I’d say that loss just might be a gain. My fedora is off to Mr Brown. I hope to see great innovations from BC going forward. You on the other hand just want to piss on the parade.
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My other thought is why would anyone walk away from great work? My clients are already many of the absolute best in the bass world, and I will only continue to please them and improve. Anyone who would think I would abandon this is misguided. I love doing really high quality lutherie and have no intention of stopping.
 
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#362
damonsmith said:
Some thoughts on all of this:

I think context is everything. The context for this thread is the basses sub-forum in the double bass section at Talkbass - not the smoking table behind a rock club. (To paraphrase Walter, this is not NAMM, there are rules!) Most of us here don't consider someone who makes stage-props built with gorilla glue to be a "luthier", much less pushes products with cute and corny names like "Tonemonger" and "Blast Cult". Skilled as they may be, this move is about making an exchange of credibility for a payday. That is isn't even a big deal, but, there is such a big "want their cake and eat it too" attitude these days that I don't think is positive for anything. The shaddy past reputation doesn't help, either.
Just as if I suddenly started playing bass for Cardi B., I'd have an easier time paying bills, but, some of the musicians I have access to now would choose to play with other musicians who don't put money first.

It is undoubtedly a sound financial move to get away from grumpy and cheap jazz and classical bassists! Still, there are plenty of luthiers out there holding the line for those of who value integrity over $$. Funny that the my whole attitude towards "not selling out" is one the only things left over from my roots in "punk" and the audience for these basses seems to have a relation to that music and culture!

I don't understand why the market audience for these bass can't be a bit more honest with themselves and their listeners and move to solid body EUBs, but, with sculptural elements of flames and coffins, etc.
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My jazz and classical clients are neither grumpy nor cheap. I love them, and they are among the very top of those worlds. This is you putting words in my mouth, and you have absolutely no reason to do that. My high end lutherie is sought out for a good reason, and that reason is going to stay. I really hope you will see what I am trying to do here in a positive light.
 
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#363
Red Brown said:
My jazz and classical clients are neither grumpy nor cheap. I love them, and they are among the very top of those worlds. This is you putting words in my mouth, and you have absolutely no reason to do that. My high end lutherie is sought out for a good reason, and that reason is going to stay. I really hope you will see what I am trying to do here in a positive light.
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And, there is simply no reason for you to assume my motivation for doing this. That is pure speculation, on your part. My motives are really simple. I see a great opportunity to help a long time friend make a good move, in his life, and it offers me a great opportunity to build basses to my desires. I make my living, now, playing bass and serving other bassists, so my integrity is sound. And you won't be seeing Gorilla Glue, either...
 
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#364
damonsmith said:
I mean, this is the whole thing about context, and having the discussion in this context, which is in the sight line of a wider community of double bassist beyond the specific scene.
Pretending that these basses "sound good through an amp" because they sound good acoustically is untrue.
They have had huge compromises to the acoustic sound so that the amplification issues that great old basses have are gone and also so you can stand on them. If a bass could sound great acoustically while being this durable and not feeding back, we'd all have one. This isn't a problem, it is just a fact.
My only point in making it is that this new guy WILL loose some credibility as a "real deal" luthier in exchange for the pile of cash these basses will hopefully make him.
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So far, some of my best clients are very excited about this, and they will have the new basses, and they will be playing jazz and classical. Anyone who abandons me over this is not someone who is really going to be missed. What's real about my lutherie is not based on words or opinions, anyway. It can't be taken away like that. Cheers.
 
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#365
Red Brown said:
So far, some of my best clients are very excited about this, and they will have the new basses, and they will be playing jazz and classical. Anyone who abandons me over this is not someone who is really going to be missed. What's real about my lutherie is not based on words or opinions, anyway. It can't be taken away like that. Cheers.
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Sounds like you are on the right track. Good luck with it all.
 
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#369
Red Brown said:
My other thought is why would anyone walk away from great work? My clients are already many of the absolute best in the bass world, and I will only continue to please them and improve. Anyone who would think I would abandon this is misguided. I love doing really high quality lutherie and have no intention of stopping.
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For sake of clarification and discussion: No matter how good you are at something, there is someone just as good who focuses on it full time. I studied classical bass and with modern classical soloists. I do a bit of new music, it is still best to get someone who does it full time rather than me, since 99% of my work is free improvisation.
I still regard these as dishonest EUBs. The body, not the bass is the stage prop I referenced earlier. The solo called innovations have been taken care of years ago with EUBs.

These basses are niche marketed not only for some people but, in a certain way "against" "elitists" like me! So you'll have that to overcome. Best to go in with open eyes.
You probably won't lose any customers over it, unless this venture takes up so much time that you can't continue to serve them. At the same time, while you are doing this, there will be other luthiers going full steam a head with a focus on "normal" basses.
 
#370
Your negativity requires no clarification.
And how do you know that Mr. Brown will continue building basses the same way Mr. Burns did? You don’t and he isn’t, you haven’t been reading.
No bass is against you. Is it against you because it’s ply? Then Kay and Engle are against you. If we flip it every carved bass is against players like me. Do you see how your logic fails here? Basses aren’t “against” you, You are “against” you. I’ll take any bass into the situations I play give me a bit of time and I’ll make it work. Seeing your posts here have made me happy I ditched that negative attitude long ago.
damonsmith said:
For sake of clarification and discussion: No matter how good you are at something, there is someone just as good who focuses on it full time. I studied classical bass and with modern classical soloists. I do a bit of new music, it is still best to get someone who does it full time rather than me, since 99% of my work is free improvisation.
I still regard these as dishonest EUBs. The body, not the bass is the stage prop I referenced earlier. The solo called innovations have been taken care of years ago with EUBs.

These basses are niche marketed not only for some people but, in a certain way "against" "elitists" like me! So you'll have that to overcome. Best to go in with open eyes.
You probably won't lose any customers over it, unless this venture takes up so much time that you can't continue to serve them. At the same time, while you are doing this, there will be other luthiers going full steam a head with a focus on "normal" basses.
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#371
FWIW I have a Blast Cult and a fully carved Grunert. The BC is not as loud acoustically and sounds like some old Kays I’ve played. I’ve studied classical and played with Symphonies. I also play loud Rock and Roll, and the Grunert will not amplify like the BC. I enjoy both. I do not feel like the lineage of fine carved basses is threatened by BCs.
I also do not think it’s correct to call the BC a prop because it’s functional and does what it is intended to do quite well.
Check the vids in my signature for some unamplified BC.
Warning: it is not a classical or modern solo piece.
 
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#372
DonaldFraser said:
And how do you know that Mr. Brown will continue building basses the same way Mr. Burns did? You don’t and he isn’t, you haven’t been reading.
No bass is against you. Is it against you because it’s ply? Then Kay and Engle are against. Do you see your logic fails here. Basses aren’t against you, You are against you.
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The Engle I started on was against me for sure! I am no fan of those basses or Kays, but, they have a more open ended marketing.
While there are plans to build differently, BC is what it is right now, and that is all we can address.
 
#375
Thank you again. You’re failing to see the future here, and sticking to the past. Staking claims taking sides....man we all play bass.
How very washed up “punk” of you.
damonsmith said:
There is nothing wrong with taking a side, staking a claim or any of that. However, the fact of the matter is that is what BC has done from the beginning.
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#376
Un amped blast cult sounds great!!
Dave Hill said:
FWIW I have a Blast Cult and a fully carved Grunert. The BC is not as loud acoustically and sounds like some old Kays I’ve played. I’ve studied classical and played with Symphonies. I also play loud Rock and Roll, and the Grunert will not amplify like the BC. I enjoy both. I do not feel like the lineage of fine carved basses is threatened by BCs.
I also do not think it’s correct to call the BC a prop because it’s functional and does what it is intended to do quite well.
Check the vids in my signature for some unamplified BC.
Warning: it is not a classical or modern solo piece.
Click to expand...
 
#378
Granted looks are a point especially in a retro based scene/culture. But every scene has that. Jazzers and classical both have their scenes requirements that the adherents hold on to with a death grip.
Me personally I enjoy upright in any scene. I love the instrument not the scene it happens to be sitting in.
Once I figured that out I was happier musically.
The Biz said:
I don't care either way, but it isn't just about volume and durability. Like everything else in the Rockabilly scene, it's mostly about look. Let's not pretend it's not.

All the better if they expand their product line in the future...
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