Double Bass Blast cult

[DonaldFraser]

Right, but, with all the added durability and emphasis on looks and amplified sound the body is pretty much useless, and as I've said just becomes a stage prop. I've played these basses they sound terrible without an amp.

Sorry Damon I disagree. My Kings always had a favorable acoustic tone. As did all the Kings I heard/played. And to your point that sound is terrible without an amp; that’s an oxy moron. Crappy sounding basses will sound like crap amplified. You can’t polish a turd. But You are entitled to your opinion. Its subjective, as is anyone’s, but you can have it.

 

[dukeorock]

Right, but, with all the added durability and emphasis on looks and amplified sound the body is pretty much useless, and as I've said just becomes a stage prop. I've played these basses they sound terrible without an amp.

Sorry Damon I disagree. My Kings always had a favorable acoustic tone. As did all the Kings I heard/played. And to your point that sound is terrible without an amp; that’s an oxy moron. Crappy sounding basses will sound like crap amplified. You can’t polish a turd. But You are entitled to your opinion. Its subjective, as is anyone’s, but you can have it.

I’ll meet you fine folks in the middle
I don’t stand on basses nor do I favor flames and dice, though I have no issue with it.
Useless stage prop? Hardly. My BC has been flown around the world many times on a couple thousand gigs without one single repair. I’d say that’s pretty good

To say a BC only sounds good through an amp... that’s subjective, so I wouldn’t disrespect the opinion. It just so happens that all my upright gigs involve amps and I need an upright that sounds good through amps. It goes to the PA via a Grace Felix pre, and I like it pretty good and many a sound person has given me props on having a rig they find easy to dial in.
Too many times I’ve heard amazing sounding acoustic uprights that are nowhere to be found in a mix because they’re too difficult to amplify. Everybody just needs to find a set of compromises they can live with.

 

[damonsmith]

Crappy sounding basses will sound like crap amplified. You can’t polish a turd.

I mean, this is the whole thing about context, and having the discussion in this context, which is in the sight line of a wider community of double bassist beyond the specific scene.
Pretending that these basses "sound good through an amp" because they sound good acoustically is untrue.
They have had huge compromises to the acoustic sound so that the amplification issues that great old basses have are gone and also so you can stand on them. If a bass could sound great acoustically while being this durable and not feeding back, we'd all have one. This isn't a problem, it is just a fact.
My only point in making it is that this new guy WILL loose some credibility as a "real deal" luthier in exchange for the pile of cash these basses will hopefully make him.

 

[Don Hergert]

I've made it pretty clear here that I don't play rockabilly per se, and I'm not a rock enthusiast, and I purposefully avoid extremely loud shows anywhere I go. I like lower volume musical forms. My wife and I have forsaken NAMM primarily because of its volume, probably for the rest of our lives. Both of our sons love and play loud rock music and while we love them dearly, we cannot comfortably listen to it. And we are even known at the restaurants that we frequent to consistently request either that the piped in music be turned down or that we sit in a secluded quiet area so we can hear ourselves talk.

After a year of concentrated fun with my double bass and a 50 year background with other instruments, I'm cementing my comfort with playing primarily various roots music forms, and while I slap and I do amp to be heard at volumes that the piano or other primarily acoustic instruments produce, I much prefer the softer touch of an acoustic bass. My pizz is more comfortable with bluegrass and old-jazz. My arco is more comfortable with Gospel. And my bass is really setup for those musical modes. In fact this has been successful enough that in a few months our main band will be releasing two Gospel albums produced with this bass and featuring primarily old hymns. Yet the bass that I play is one that in many forms would be preferred by many rockabilly players or by straight rock players.

Personally I think that the context being Basses [DB] for this thread is just fine. People may like either kiddingly or condescendingly to call certain basses Base Shaped Objects, but at least in my view, discussions that are related to less than only orchestral double basses and that are of general interest to the Basses [DB] reader community do still belong here, regardless of the genre that support them. This is after all a general category, not one specific to any genre. And this particular thread has certainly proved itself to be of general interest to the Basses [DB] reader community.

That said, being in the Basses [DB] context does mean a wide audience may read this thread. Which by itself means the BSO acronym may get thrown around, along with other even more provocative remarks, whether they are intended to be insulting or not. As Chris has discussed, many double bass-playing rockabilly, psycho-billy or rock players specialize in thick skin, so these comments may actually tend to encourage them and in fact may be their goal... But for those of us general Basses [DB] readers who are outside of that playing group and perhaps don't have such thick skin, these comments only appear to be at least condescending and inflammatory, and possibly insulting.

Personally, I like the straight-forward approach. If I don't like something I try to say that straight out rather than using clever wording or insults. But that's just me, we're all different.

A dear musical friend of mine once told me "Arguing the qualities of one genre over another is an exercise in futility." I tend to think that is really what we're talking about here.

 

[unbrokenchain]

I had the top removed two maybe three times on my King in order to facilitate traditional repairs.

I'm in the process of fixing up an old Kay that had the fingerboard glued on with gorilla glue. It was really, really a chore getting that thing off (understated). Just curious whats the method of removing parts from a gg bass? Maybe there's a trick I didn't know?

 

[DonaldFraser]

From what I understood it was much the same process.....just a lot slower. And to be honest the only thing that got a bit tweaked was paint on the seam, no biggie for me.
If you’d like I can try to reach out to luthier that did it.

I'm in the process of fixing up an old Kay that had the fingerboard glued on with gorilla glue. It was really, really a chore getting that thing off (understated). Just curious whats the method of removing parts from a gg bass? Maybe there's a trick I didn't know?

 

[DonaldFraser]

I mean, this is the whole thing about context, and having the discussion in this context, which is in the sight line of a wider community of double bassist beyond the specific scene.
Pretending that these basses "sound good through an amp" because they sound good acoustically is untrue.
They have had huge compromises to the acoustic sound so that the amplification issues that great old basses have are gone and also so you can stand on them. If a bass could sound great acoustically while being this durable and not feeding back, we'd all have one. This isn't a problem, it is just a fact.
My only point in making it is that this new guy WILL loose some credibility as a "real deal" luthier in exchange for the pile of cash these basses will hopefully make him.

I'm not pretending anything. I genuinely like the KDB/BC acoustic tone.
Don’t forgot our opinions here are subjective. Even on your soap box you’re still just giving opinions.

I really don’t think Jason Brown will lose any credibility. If anything he will gain it immensely being he guy that saves BC would be a nice feather in that so to speak. He did mention a new bass in this thread maybe it will meet your acoustic standards, but from your posts you don’t strike me as the open to new ideas type. You come off bitter and jaded.

So I’ll leave you and everyone in this thread with one of my favorite Blast Cult players

 

[Don Hergert]

...
So I’ll leave you and everyone in this thread with one of my favorite Blast Cult players

Wow, I'm impressed -- really! At a listening volume that I can control, this is pretty technically amazing.

 

[DonaldFraser]

No flames, no skulls, no coffins, no standing. Just solid playing. And really that’s what all of us are about.
Some of just prefer certain tools for the job.

Wow, I'm impressed -- really! At a listening volume that I can control, this is pretty technically amazing.

 

[damonsmith]

I'm not pretending anything. I genuinely like the KDB/BC acoustic tone.
Don’t forgot our opinions here are subjective. Even on your soap box you’re still just giving opinions.

I really don’t think Jason Brown will lose any credibility. If anything he will gain it immensely being he guy that saves BC would be a nice feather in that so to speak. He did mention a new bass in this thread maybe it will meet your acoustic standards, but from your posts you don’t strike me as the open to new ideas type. You come off bitter and jaded.

New ideas might be subjective, liking the tone may be subjective, but, the lack of volume and projection are not subjective. You couldn't use one of these with a full drum set and no amp, for example.
He will trade the credibility he has for probably more with an entirely different audience, there will be an exchange.

 

[Red Brown]

The personal back and forth has been deleted from the thread. There was probably some collateral damage WRT actual information in those same posts, but life is short and time is limited and my apologies for that.

I have no dog in this race, other than trying to make sure that the thread stays within the bounds of the site rules and that within those boundaries it serves to provide accurate information that can help our little corner of the bass community stay informed.

The thread was allowed to take the turn toward "Blast Cult is blatantly ripping people off by taking their money and not delivering the basses ordered as promised" because by all indications that appeared to be what was happening. While I have no desire to play a reinforced plywood bass with flames, I support those who do and hope that the company can get back on its feet to service that portion of the market.

With that in mind, there seems to be two directions this thread can take:

1) It can (and should) continue to serve an an impetus for the company to finish and deliver the basses it has promised to people who have ordered and paid for them. The impetus for the company to do this is to stop the flow of bad BC publicity from this thread, with the knowledge that Talkbass reaches more people than anyone might suspect; the fact that this thread has been viewed over 36,000 times and shows up on the first page of a simple google search for the words "Blast Cult" should make this pretty self evident.

2) Now that it seems the new luthier in charge of the bass work in the company is posting here (see below), there can also be more discussion about the direction the company and basses may take with regard to changes, improvements, and available options. I personally welcome this new voice to the conversation, and hope that his presence can help us get this thread back on a more positive track.

It seems obvious to me that repairing the image of the company would logically begin with dealing with issues related to point 1) above, and then proceed to point 2). Until that happens, there will continue to be understandable ill-will toward the company and people will continue to voice their displeasure and impatience toward the company and its practices. To this end, comments related to this aspect will still be allowed as long as they not get personal and stay within the site rules. Any personal back and forth in this thread will be handled according to site rules. I encourage members to report posts that cross the line rather than respond to them and further stoke the flames. Keep in mind that the DB forum has only two moderators and that we are both (relatively) normal Joes living busy (relatively) normal lives.

Last, it seems that @dhergert has cleared up the mystery of the three Jasons. I would encourage anyone trying to make sense of the thread to refer back to his post below for clarification. I know I found this whole situation very confusing at first!

After reviewing the five deposits that Blast Cult has for new basses, a few things are apperant.

Some thoughts on all of this:

I think context is everything. The context for this thread is the basses sub-forum in the double bass section at Talkbass - not the smoking table behind a rock club. (To paraphrase Walter, this is not NAMM, there are rules!) Most of us here don't consider someone who makes stage-props built with gorilla glue to be a "luthier", much less pushes products with cute and corny names like "Tonemonger" and "Blast Cult". Skilled as they may be, this move is about making an exchange of credibility for a payday. That is isn't even a big deal, but, there is such a big "want their cake and eat it too" attitude these days that I don't think is positive for anything. The shaddy past reputation doesn't help, either.
Just as if I suddenly started playing bass for Cardi B., I'd have an easier time paying bills, but, some of the musicians I have access to now would choose to play with other musicians who don't put money first.

It is undoubtedly a sound financial move to get away from grumpy and cheap jazz and classical bassists! Still, there are plenty of luthiers out there holding the line for those of who value integrity over $$. Funny that the my whole attitude towards "not selling out" is one the only things left over from my roots in "punk" and the audience for these basses seems to have a relation to that music and culture!

I don't understand why the market audience for these bass can't be a bit more honest with themselves and their listeners and move to solid body EUBs, but, with sculptural elements of flames and coffins, etc.

Things change. The foundation is in place to make anything we want, with the resources available. Blast Cult basses were popular and effective for the loud performer, which is also a legitimate and viable market. My joining the company brings the ability to produce a bass that is reflective of my past work in the jazz and classical fields. This means it will be a new bass that plays very well for these styles. It would be an incomplete discussion to dismiss it based on opinions from the past. It's all about change, my friend.

 

[Red Brown]

Seriously? Have you read this thread???

He means me. I am not part of this thread, until now. Thanks.

 

[unbrokenchain]

From what I understood it was much the same process.....just a lot slower. And to be honest the only thing that got a bit tweaked was paint on the seam, no biggie for me.
If you’d like I can try to reach out to luthier that did it.

I used a clothes iron, steam, steel spatula and putty knife, copious amounts of vinegar, alcohol, and acetone. It took me about six solid hours to remove the fingerboard. Hopefully I'll never be in that situation again, but if there's an easier way I'd love to know!

 

[unbrokenchain]

* other than just planing the thing off, I wanted to keep the fb. Sorry for the slight derail

 

[marcox]

@Red Brown, can you comment on whether the original poster ever received his bass, or a refund on his payment?

 

[DonaldFraser]

I want to say heat gun at a very low temp and just prying with a putty knife.

I used a clothes iron, steam, steel spatula and putty knife, copious amounts of vinegar, alcohol, and acetone. It took me about six solid hours to remove the fingerboard. Hopefully I'll never be in that situation again, but if there's an easier way I'd love to know!

 

[DonaldFraser]

You couldn’t use any upright bass in the situations players like me are in. We have to amp up. So lack of volume and projection aren’t really an issue. But tone is and the KDB/BC tone is great in my opinion.
True he may lose some credibility with folks like you, but with how you’ve come off this entire time, I’d say that loss just might be a gain. My fedora is off to Mr Brown. I hope to see great innovations from BC going forward. You on the other hand just want to piss on the parade.

New ideas might be subjective, liking the tone may be subjective, but, the lack of volume and projection are not subjective. You couldn't use one of these with a full drum set and no amp, for example.
He will trade the credibility he has for probably more with an entirely different audience, there will be an exchange.

 

[DonaldFraser]

But can I stand on it??? LOL!!! Kidding.
Looking forward to what you’ll bring to the upright bass world.
We’re a small community and I for one dropped my BS elitist attitude long ago and accept everyone with a bull fiddle, upright bass, or what ever they call it as a brother.

After reviewing the five deposits that Blast Cult has for new basses, a few things are apperant.

Things change. The foundation is in place to make anything we want, with the resources available. Blast Cult basses were popular and effective for the loud performer, which is also a legitimate and viable market. My joining the company brings the ability to produce a bass that is reflective of my past work in the jazz and classical fields. This means it will be a new bass that plays very well for these styles. It would be an incomplete discussion to dismiss it based on opinions from the past. It's all about change, my friend.

 

[Red Brown]

But can I stand on it??? LOL!!! Kidding.
Looking forward to what you’ll bring to the upright bass world.
We’re a small community and I for one dropped my BS elitist attitude long ago and accept everyone with a bull fiddle, upright bass, or what ever they call it

@Red Brown, can you comment on whether the original poster ever received his bass, or a refund on his payment?

All five deposits are being addressed directly, and privately, with those people. They will be getting their basses. This is between them and Jason Burns, but I am aware of the situation and it is ll being handled in a positive manner.

 

[Red Brown]

You couldn’t use any upright bass in the situations players like me are in. We have to amp up. So lack of volume and projection aren’t really an issue. But tone is and the KDB/BC tone is great in my opinion.
True he may lose some credibility with folks like you, but with how you’ve come off this entire time, I’d say that loss just might be a gain. My fedora is off to Mr Brown. I hope to see great innovations from BC going forward. You on the other hand just want to piss on the parade.

The important thing to realize that is not subjective is that we make every part ourselves, and this will included a carved top, on some new models. I certainly don't intend to lose credibility by my involvement. Kudos to those positive folks here!