Double Bass Blast cult

[Red Brown]

Thank you very much, that answers a lot of questions at least for me.

I had thought until I saw the current FB Deuce page this morning that Jason Minor was the potential person who was going to work with BC. I've never met or done business with him, but he did make my Alcoa playable. That said, I do know a lot of people are extremely happy that the person who will be working with BC will be you. Your name and reputation will lend credibility to the whole endeavor.

As I expressed earlier in this thread, I wish you the very best. I think your approach to healing the old BC wounds is exactly what people really want to see, and I think your approach to a bass that will appeal to everyone is a great direction to go. I also hugely applaud your presence here, and the transparency that you exhibit here about your goals.

The one thing missing that I'd really suggest you consider is to have a way to talk with you on the phone. Many of us don't like or regularly use FB, and email often just doesn't provide fast enough answers. If there's any way we can talk to you by phone, putting a real person at the shop, I think that would really help assure customers, as well as provide timely information about products that you will sell. I do know that might be difficult if you're going to be a one-man shop, but given the rebuilding that you'll be doing, that might really be worth it.

Just one more question: Are you going to be or continue working out of the location in Hemet, or do you have another workspace? I'd love throw my Alcoa into the car and come by and visit sometime.

Again, I wish the very best to you as you take on this challenge!!!

I am not in Hemet. That is Jayson Minor. I am in Laguna Hills, in Orange County, CA. We will have a person answering the phone during business hours, soon! I agree it is important.

 

[unbrokenchain]

Because a person who fixes things for a living believes things are fixable.

I like this quote.

Props to Red Brown for addressing this thread. Instruments require a lot of careful patience and skill to repair or build correctly. Relationships, be them business or personal, even more so. A worthy pursuit though I'd say.​

 

[dukeorock]

I can only share my personal experience...disclaimer, I’m a Blast Cult endorser. I’ve had 4-5 KDB’s and my BC has held up to a couple thousand gigs all over the world. I’m very happy with them. The only person who could possibly top Jason Burns skills, for well built, ultra durable basses is Jason Brown, who I respect deeply and only have had pleasant exchanges with for many years

 

[DonaldFraser]

Can’t we all just play bass and get along?
KDB and BC serve certain types of upright players. I loved both of my Kings and deeply regret selling them. Hell Marshall Lytles custom slap king was based on what Derek at King had done with my slapking.... I digress.
Personal issues should not be brought into business. Can Brown turn BC around? Maybe.
Only time will tell if he can clean up years of KDB/BC bad mojo.

 

[Chris Fitzgerald]

Closed for moderator review. The personal stuff posted recently has no place in the general forums.

 

[Chris Fitzgerald]

The personal back and forth has been deleted from the thread. There was probably some collateral damage WRT actual information in those same posts, but life is short and time is limited and my apologies for that.

I have no dog in this race, other than trying to make sure that the thread stays within the bounds of the site rules and that within those boundaries it serves to provide accurate information that can help our little corner of the bass community stay informed.

The thread was allowed to take the turn toward "Blast Cult is blatantly ripping people off by taking their money and not delivering the basses ordered as promised" because by all indications that appeared to be what was happening. While I have no desire to play a reinforced plywood bass with flames, I support those who do and hope that the company can get back on its feet to service that portion of the market.

With that in mind, there seems to be two directions this thread can take:

1) It can (and should) continue to serve as an impetus for the company to finish and deliver the basses it has promised to people who have ordered and paid for them. The impetus for the company to do this is to stop the flow of bad BC publicity from this thread, with the knowledge that Talkbass reaches more people than anyone might suspect; the fact that this thread has been viewed over 36,000 times and shows up on the first page of a simple google search for the words "Blast Cult" should make this pretty self evident.

2) Now that it seems the new luthier in charge of the bass work in the company is posting here (see below), there can also be more discussion about the direction the company and basses may take with regard to changes, improvements, and available options. I personally welcome this new voice to the conversation, and hope that his presence can help us get this thread back on a more positive track.

It seems obvious to me that repairing the image of the company would logically begin with dealing with issues related to point 1) above, and then proceed to point 2). Until that happens, there will continue to be understandable ill-will toward the company and people will continue to voice their displeasure and impatience toward the company and its practices. To this end, comments related to this aspect will still be allowed as long as they not get personal and stay within the site rules. Any personal back and forth in this thread will be handled according to site rules. I encourage members to report posts that cross the line rather than respond to them and further stoke the flames. Keep in mind that the DB forum has only two moderators and that we are both (relatively) normal Joes living busy (relatively) normal lives.

Last, it seems that @dhergert has cleared up the mystery of the three Jasons. I would encourage anyone trying to make sense of the thread to refer back to his post below for clarification. I know I found this whole situation very confusing at first!

I'm aware of three bass-related Jasons:

1) Jason Minor, who was the person who worked on my Alcoa before I owned it, and to my knowledge is the person who owned and ran Deuce Bass Company in Hemet, and originated the Deuce Bridge.

2) Jason Burns, of Bass Cult and formerly King Basses, who we've all grown to know and love at least as a result of this thread.

3) Jason Brown, who is the luthier at Lemur Music in San Juan Capistrano and who may be taking over or taking part in the Bass Cult company (and I assume is the person I'm replying to with this message).

 

[Chris Fitzgerald]

The thread - and apparently the company as well - is now open for business.

 

[unbrokenchain]

I have no dog in this race, other than trying to make sure that the thread stays within the bounds of the site rules and that within those boundaries it serves to provide accurate information that can help our little corner of the bass community stay informed.

And that's why they pay C Fitzgerald the big bucks! The man is an institution.

I'm not a BC owner, only was interested in all this because I felt bad for the OP, he was really excited about his new bass and just never got it (ostensibly, doesn't look like he's been on tb for a while).

That said, and it may be sheer coincidence, but I sent the link to this thread through the BC site and Red Brown addressed it in a matter of hours. To me that bodes very well for the future reputation of the company.

 

[Steve Swan]

I believe that Jason Brown will create a whole new effective communication style for this company. He is a champ. (Had to double check to make sure that spellcheck did not turn it into "chimp".)

 

[damonsmith]

Some thoughts on all of this:

I think context is everything. The context for this thread is the basses sub-forum in the double bass section at Talkbass - not the smoking table behind a rock club. (To paraphrase Walter, this is not NAMM, there are rules!) Most of us here don't consider someone who makes stage-props built with gorilla glue to be a "luthier", much less pushes products with cute and corny names like "Tonemonger" and "Blast Cult". Skilled as they may be, this move is about making an exchange of credibility for a payday. That is isn't even a big deal, but, there is such a big "want their cake and eat it too" attitude these days that I don't think is positive for anything. The shaddy past reputation doesn't help, either.
Just as if I suddenly started playing bass for Cardi B., I'd have an easier time paying bills, but, some of the musicians I have access to now would choose to play with other musicians who don't put money first.

It is undoubtedly a sound financial move to get away from grumpy and cheap jazz and classical bassists! Still, there are plenty of luthiers out there holding the line for those of who value integrity over $$. Funny that the my whole attitude towards "not selling out" is one the only things left over from my roots in "punk" and the audience for these basses seems to have a relation to that music and culture!

I don't understand why the market audience for these bass can't be a bit more honest with themselves and their listeners and move to solid body EUBs, but, with sculptural elements of flames and coffins, etc.

 

[dukeorock]

And the winner of the “Snobbiest, Most Condescending Post on Talkbass” goes to...

 

[damonsmith]

And the winner of the “Snobbiest, Most Condescending Post on Talkbass” goes to...

Welcome to the double bass side!

 

[dukeorock]

Some thoughts on all of this:

I think context is everything. The context for this thread is the basses sub-forum in the double bass section at Talkbass - not the smoking table behind a rock club. (To paraphrase Walter, this is not NAMM, there are rules!) Most of us here don't consider someone who makes stage-props built with gorilla glue to be a "luthier", much less pushes products with cute and corny names like "Tonemonger" and "Blast Cult". Skilled as they may be, this move is about making an exchange of credibility for a payday. That is isn't even a big deal, but, there is such a big "want their cake and eat it too" attitude these days that I don't think is positive for anything. The shaddy past reputation doesn't help, either.
Just as if I suddenly started playing bass for Cardi B., I'd have an easier time paying bills, but, some of the musicians I have access to now would choose to play with other musicians who don't put money first.

It is undoubtedly a sound financial move to get away from grumpy and cheap jazz and classical bassists! Still, there are plenty of luthiers out there holding the line for those of who value integrity over $$. Funny that the my whole attitude towards "not selling out" is one the only things left over from my roots in "punk" and the audience for these basses seems to have a relation to that music and culture!

I don't understand why the market audience for these bass can't be a bit more honest with themselves and their listeners and move to solid body EUBs, but, with sculptural elements of flames and coffins, etc.

The irony here is I agree with many points you’re making, but I’m just a bit taken aback by how those points are made. I play for a living. I have a decent acoustic upright for when that’s appropriate and I have a BC for the loud stuff. I’ve never owned a bass with flames or whatever...not my thing. But what’s it to you if some folks do like that? I have no illusions that playing a BC through a loud amp can get me Christian McBride’s tone. But in that context, I’m not looking for that tone anyway. I can tell you it doesn’t sound like any EUB I’ve ever heard. You might do well to consider that people are just different and want different things and be ok with it.
You use the word ‘integrity’ a lot. A huge part of ‘integrity’ is kindness and human decency. I’m sure you are a decent person, but these posts don’t reflect that.

 

[dukeorock]

Welcome to the double bass side!

Makes me sad I can’t spend more time there. Ron Carter was the reason I bought an upright a very long time ago. Not because I wanted to play jazz, I don’t. But his sound and phrasing just bowled me over.

 

[damonsmith]

T
You use the word ‘integrity’ a lot. A huge part of ‘integrity’ is kindness and human decency. I’m sure you are a decent person, but these posts don’t reflect that.

In this case it has to do with getting people their basses on time as well as understanding what type of work it takes to hold on to a reputation as double bass luthier. Being "nice" isn't as big a factor doing good work. It can seem snobby, being a double bass luthier with a serious reputation probably rightly snobby, certain things in life are and they need to be. Harvard trying be less "elitist" is not a good move, either.

 

[Chris Fitzgerald]

As an aside - and perhaps to hopefully keep this thread from going down a different rabbit hole - I'll mention that in @damonsmith 's defense, he owns his snobbery and rarely tries to spin it as something other than what it is. I have been the target on more than one occasion because I don't practice much with the bow, because I advocate playing Bach pizzicato as technical etudes for pizz players, and because I am largely self-taught as a player (though not as a musician). Personally, I have gone from being mildly annoyed about this to somewhat bemused, and not much bothered. I would add two quasi-moderatorial points about this:

1) Because these opinions are usually posted as opinions, snobbery and all, and not attempted to be spun as empirical fact, they are allowable as long as they don't cross the line into trolling.

2) More apropos to this thread, it takes all kinds to make the world go 'round. Blast Cult serves a community of bassists who value showmanship and a certain attitude connected to the music that they make. That's not my musical vibe, but what a boring world it would be if we were all the same! Plus, if I were going to be playing rock stages and standing on my bass as part of the show, I'd sure want a bass made for that so I wouldn't smash up my beloved basses.

So, more power to Jason Brown and Blast Cult in their quest to right the ship. The fact that there is a real or perceived snobbish attitude against what they do probably only feeds their belief that they are doing something useful by following their passion, and in so doing offering a friendly shag you and the high horse you rode in on ( ) to the naysayers in the process. Speaking from personal experience, I have adopted this outlook to those who poo-poo my own technical/musical/pedagogical leanings, and find myself in a much healthier and more positive place for it.

TL/DR version - as long as we keep it respectful, we're all good here.

 

[unbrokenchain]

I think context is everything.

Context, for sure. A person who drives a Ferrari would be terribly underwhelmed with a beater F-150, but the person who uses the truck to haul gravel every day might just look at the Ferrari as a useless liability, no matter how much fun it is to drive.

Just to express my sympathy with your perspective Damon, I (long ago) come from the punk rock side of things too, the term "selling out" is one that I've had to grapple with myself (I'm currently being asked to play straight root notes on electric bass for a band with mainstream label support, a good payday and good songs but freakin boring for my part). The intersection of art and capitalism is a rather tough place to be sometimes, and we each have to set up our own values in that way.

On the actual basses, I personally wouldn't consider any bass that's not made with hide glue because I value that serviceability. I also like to play at lower volumes so that my ears don't ring, and so don't have a need for something that's designed to be amplified. But I also understand digging the volume, when I was 16 we'd play operation ivy songs with our amps absolutely cranked. It was awesome and I'm glad I experienced that, and I smile every time I pass a club where something similar is going on. If a player wants something that's strong enough to throw around, stand on, and is not concerned about making traditional repairs, then that's their business. I see a lot of cars on the road that I would never pay money for, honestly I think the plymouth prowler was about the silliest thing ever made, but who am I to insist that my neighbor who has one get something more traditional? Apparently they like it, if they wanted a subaru they'd have bought that.

To me, though, integrity as a business is all about communication and serving the customers in a prompt and respectful way. Gollihur is a shining example in my mind. Are there some products that probably shouldn't be manufactured at all? Of course, but we're talking about american musical instruments here, not monsanto or northrup grumman or sweatshop labor. There's absolutely nothing wrong with selling a product to fit a niche market. There is a big problem if someone's taking money and not delivering products, and that's what most of the thread seems to be about, but if they can get that part straightened out, they've got my thumbs up.

 

[DonaldFraser]

Most of us here don't consider someone who makes stage-props built with gorilla glue to be a "luthier", much less pushes products with cute and corny names like "Tonemonger" and "Blast Cult". Skilled as they may be, this move is about making an exchange of credibility for a payday.

Funny that the my whole attitude towards "not selling out" is one the only things left over from my roots in "punk" and the audience for these basses seems to have a relation to that music and culture!

I don't understand why the market audience for these bass can't be a bit more honest with themselves and their listeners and move to solid body EUBs, but, with sculptural elements of flames and coffins, etc.

Some thought on this;
What I’ve found is that most people that consider KDB/BC products corny stage props have 1 neither played them and only heard about them online. Or 2 are just jealous for some sad reason.
Jason Burns plays for a living, he started building basses that could withstand the trials of the road. The intent was no to deliver a roadworthy upright bass that wouldn’t fall apart. Hence the name RoadKing on The American made KDB’s.
There was never an exchange for credibility. For a payday. Trust me.

If you feel the need to point out you once had punk ideals and ethos.... you probably were a poser. At this stage in our lives, no one honestly gives a turd. Get over it.

The market audience for these basses is after the durability. Not the paint job. If that were the case we’d all be playing FMI CCB’s with the same paint jobs.
Your ignorance on this entire scene of upright players is almost astounding.

 

[damonsmith]

The market audience for these basses is after the durability. Not the paint job. If that were the case we’d all be playing FMI CCB’s with the same paint jobs.

Right, but, with all the added durability and emphasis on looks and amplified sound the body is pretty much useless, and as I've said just becomes a stage prop. I've played these basses they sound terrible without an amp.

 

[DonaldFraser]

On the actual basses, I personally wouldn't consider any bass that's not made with hide glue because I value that serviceability. I also like to play at lower volumes so that my ears don't ring, and so don't have a need for something that's designed to be amplified. But I also understand digging the volume, when I was 16 we'd play operation ivy songs with our amps absolutely cranked. It was awesome and I'm glad I experienced that, and I smile every time I pass a club where something similar is going on. If a player wants something that's strong enough to throw around, stand on, and is not concerned about making traditional repairs, then that's their business.

I had the top removed two maybe three times on my King in order to facilitate traditional repairs. I never stood on my bass either, a lot of us don’t. Some do so what.
I feel like all anyone focuses on when it comes to KDB/BC is the aesthetic. And that’s sad.