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Blending DI + Mic Live?

Gearhead17

Gearhead17

Supporting Member
May 4, 2006
5,287
3,635
Mount Prospect, IL
www.afterforeverband.com
#1
I was searching and I could not find the answer I needed.....

When you blend a mic (Audix D4 on my SVT 410hlf) and a DI signal (Radial JDI Box with only my 5 String Spector's tone), I have heard there is a difference in sound. The mic sound (of the speaker) is slower than the the direct tone. What pieces of equipment are needed to "time align" these signals? How do sound guys do this in a live setting?

Please help me out.
 
#2
Unless you're putting your cab mic 20' away from the cab, the delay is so small you'd have to measure it in microseconds. No soundman I know would bother correcting it in a live situation. If they did, they'd use a digital delay.

Usually soundmen only time-align multiple speaker arrays, where PA speakers may be 100's of feet apart, say, at a stadium, where the sound coming off the main arrays will have a clearly audible delay getting to the back of the audience, where the rear PA arrays are. Once again, a complex set of delays are used to time-align the sound.
 
#6
Just a quick question regarding blending a mic and DI. I run a Gk 1001 rb-ii with a GK 410 cab, I normally D.I to our FOH but i struggle to get alot of definition and bite to my tone out to FOH. I set every thing on the amp mostly flat with the bass rolled off a little and bump the high mids. The amp sounds fantastic with my fender jazz but the D.I seems to produce just the low end, which is great but I was wondering if I could add a mic to my cab just for more bite.

Is this a good idea?

Many thanks
 
#8
jacobrownoly said:
but i struggle to get alot of definition and bite to my tone out to FOH
Click to expand...

How did you come to this conclusion?...I mean eg: do you play with wireless and go out into the crowd while you were playing to know your not getting what you want out of your live sound?

Or are you struggling to initially get your def/bite out of your own rig even before sending your signal out to FOH?
 
#9
jacobrownoly said:
Just a quick question regarding blending a mic and DI. I run a Gk 1001 rb-ii with a GK 410 cab, I normally D.I to our FOH but i struggle to get alot of definition and bite to my tone out to FOH. I set every thing on the amp mostly flat with the bass rolled off a little and bump the high mids. The amp sounds fantastic with my fender jazz but the D.I seems to produce just the low end, which is great but I was wondering if I could add a mic to my cab just for more bite.

Is this a good idea?

Many thanks
Click to expand...

Depends on how you have your amp set, and then if you're going Pre or Post DI. If you have your amp to be pretty bassy, and going Post DI then that may account for it. When I buy an amp I need it to be pretty flat so I can actually use the preamp and run Post DI and it not be all wonky and full of holes.
 
#10
Most live engineers would try flipping the polarity and go with whichever is better, quick and easy. They will be far more worried about other things.

Also in venues under around 1000ish capacity you've probably got the low end from the bass rig itself and perhaps the drum monitor causing phase problems with FOH, so I wouldn't get too worried about it.

If you do want to buy something get a Radial Phazer or Little Labs IBP, but it sounds like you just need to ask the engineer to get more mid/top definition in your tone (if there's room in the mix for it).
 
#14
I actually play live that way when I can. Blended it sounds great. BUT some sound guys won't do it. I recorded my last cd with dual signals, D.I. Out of amp and mic'ed speaker. No problems.
 
#15
Get a full range mic and life is simple. Akg P2 for $100.

Phase aligning the crossover to get DI and mic working together is a whole lot of work. Soundman might get to it by the 2nd set. Might just use the DI.

Plonk mic in front, if your tone isn't nasty scooped it will work fine.
 
#16
I also use a D4 and IMO it grabs plenty of low end, so unless you are looking for a blended tone (ie dirt over a clean sound) I'd stick with one signal to FOH. What amp are you using?
Oh, OP was in 2007?!??!!

Re: GK issues- I have a nice fat clear sound dialed in on my amp, tons of definition and that "tube magic" halo around it.

And the instant the rest of the band kicks in, all you hear is low end :) Are you running your DI Pre or post EQ? If you are running pre, your EQ is at the mercy of the sound man, which how some say it should be. I'm meh on that idea. send a post EQ signal so you know the sound you want is going to the board, so the soundguy at least has some lines to color in before he turns it to sub harmonic mush.
 
#17
jacobrownoly said:
but i struggle to get alot of definition and bite to my tone out to FOH.
Click to expand...

Toolmybass said:
How did you come to this conclusion?...I mean eg: do you play with wireless and go out into the crowd while you were playing to know your not getting what you want out of your live sound?

Or are you struggling to initially get your def/bite out of your own rig even before sending your signal out to FOH?
Click to expand...

???
 
#19
Ender_rpm said:
I also use a D4 and IMO it grabs plenty of low end, so unless you are looking for a blended tone (ie dirt over a clean sound) I'd stick with one signal to FOH. What amp are you using?
Oh, OP was in 2007?!??!!

Re: GK issues- I have a nice fat clear sound dialed in on my amp, tons of definition and that "tube magic" halo around it.

And the instant the rest of the band kicks in, all you hear is low end :) Are you running your DI Pre or post EQ? If you are running pre, your EQ is at the mercy of the sound man, which how some say it should be. I'm meh on that idea. send a post EQ signal so you know the sound you want is going to the board, so the soundguy at least has some lines to color in before he turns it to sub harmonic mush.
Click to expand...

For shows, I go Pre-EQ. The sound man gets the sound of my bass with effects. I don't send the stage amp tone to him since I always set it to cut through. Miking it gets the growly nature of everything though. Although I posted this is in 2007, it is something I still wonder about. I have always worked with sound guys who were hired for the event, rarely had the chance to work with someone I hand picked or the band chose. Rarely had the opportunity to get someone to actually work on my tone.

It's funny, I had a direct tone with a miked tone mixed together for one show and I got a chance to hear what it really sounded like - it sounded really close to what I hear out of my rig. Almost exact. I liked the PA tone better. Ha.
 
#20
Ender_rpm said:
I also use a D4 and IMO it grabs plenty of low end, so unless you are looking for a blended tone (ie dirt over a clean sound) I'd stick with one signal to FOH. What amp are you using? """"

My stage rig has the low end rolled off fairly deep. I tend to hear the subs under or around the stage at every show. So I realized putting out less low end on my rig meant I could hear myself better. That's why I don't do one miked tone. I hate created a low end bubble around me - sub lows plus my rig just combining to sound like chaos. I set my rig to work with the subs....
Click to expand...
 

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