Blueberry BOD Alternatives

[BearfootDonner]

Bjorn was let go from Bearfoot after being given the choice of making chinese Honey Bees with One Control or leaving the Honey Bee as a BearFoot production. I came up with the Honey Bee name and tonal concept and did all the early promotion and marketing of it and it was the first BearFoot model and the biggest seller. It was literally the name, had he called the One Control Honey Bee anything else (like the Sweet Honey etc..) as was requested, we wouldnt be having this conversation. He decided he could make more money from making chinese One Control Honey Bees than his entire royalties from BearFoot. This was his choice and he did it knowing that it would damamge BearFoot and thats why I stopped doing business with him. And he still owes me about $7000 woth of Bjfe pedals that were paid for and never recieved. I took bjf off everything BearFoot as I dont want to be associated with chinese mass production. I will continue to upgrade and innovate the BearFoot designs we collaborated on while adding other things in the future. Onward and upward. Donner Rusk

 

[RudyTardy]

I very much appreciate the input of everyone on this thread. Many thanks to @Bjorn Juhl and @BearfootDonner for offering their insights and expertise, both of whom create wonderful products, for if not, we wouldn't even be here discussing such things! However, for the sake of the intent and purpose of the thread, I would like to redirect our attention onto what ultimately sounds good.

I have a Queen Bee on order, and as soon as Reverb refunds my Blackberry set adrift by the USPS, I will be purchasing another one for comparison. I will be sure to post some demos here when I have them.

 

[StayLow]

Hi There

Thank you for the warm welcome.

Well actually I designed the Blackberry to be the best I can I can imagine at this point but release was delayed so I made some of those handmade exactly like the production model.
Of course that gets be a bit complicated since I can use much more eleborate solutions in small format using SMD techniques.

So the main purpose for the BJF handmade Blackberry is temporary and I would say the mass produced version is just as good-only people asked for it.
I will add to that, that it took about a year at schoolbench learning smd techniques and what changes and what parts can be used-something that created many fun stories but it has enabled me to do things other manufacturers I have worked with have said to be impossible.
I personally find it amazing fun

So for now I hand make BJF Blueberry original and Futura and Blackberry. The current BJF Futura came about after the production of Blackberry was set or the Blackberry might have gotten a treble control aswell.

I say for now because I am gearing up to design more bass gear and also to gain understanding of what makes a great bass sound. This is partly because as a musician I am getting more aware of bass sounds and with benevolent help of bassist friends I am learning more about what
makes a great bass sound and there would be lots of them. However the president of One Control plays bass so I get to have my wild ideas made-if they are good enough.

I made a bass pedal board and ran that through the array of bass amps I have collected aswell as through PA in order to define eaxctly what user interface would be desirable-the result of that was partly that I had to set up my bass better and also a clear path to making more elaborate bass gear.

Personally I have prior to this arranged basslines for a record. But I am taking this very seriously and defined personally I like P-basses and so I bought a Squire-yes later I wondered why I didn’t buy a Fender
because the action left a bit to be desired but with some tools I could adjust neck angle and feel of the Squire more akin to old Fender P-basses I set up as a 16 year old. However I think I might need better strings and that will take some finding out what a good set of bass strings are
I am studying though and have set out to learn something new every day.


So I joined this forum in order to learn more about desirable bass sounds, desirable userinterface on gear and a bunch of other things like what is a good string?
Arguably my design outlook would be vintage because that is what I know and like

OK so it was about 20 years since two bassists came with their guitarists to ask if I would make them something. I have learnt lots through the years but making more bassoriented gear is perhaps long overdue



At your service
Bjorn Juhl
Proprietor
BJF Electronics
Sweden
Analog engineer at One Control
I also currently design for a variety of companies
Moody-Sounds kits
Olsson Amplification
Ekblad Amplification
Vuorensaku Guitars
Lundgren Pick Ups

To be noted I no longer work with Mad Professor Amplificaton but they will continue to produce the 42 products I designed for them

Bjorn, thank you so much for posting here.

I think you'll get a great, and perhaps confusing, array of desires from bassists. There is some consensus that the "Holy Grail" is a mild overdrive that sounds natural, defined and doesn't compromise the tone put into it.

The superstars in this regard include the Barbershop and MBD-1 along with of course the 3BOD.

Here's what is missing for me in the bass effects world, and I think many 3BOD fans would agree ... basically a 3BOD or Barbershop that does NOT get too wild when hit with a much harder input signal such as striking a chord, playing hard with a pick, etc. For those of us who play with dynamics, this is where issues often arise.

In the case of the 3BOD I would only ask for less gain ... for example so that the gain when it is set fully counter-clockwise is totally clean up to maybe 9 o'clock and the gain evident at noon is at full clockwise, and the ability to retain a natural top end if tilting the Nature to the bass side.

An internal user-adjustable trim for the Gain like the MDB-1 or Phat Phuk has can get close to this goal, however then there's no grit on regular level playing. While most praise touch sensitivity, having less of it may be the solution.

Another method may be to slightly compress only levels above a certain amplitude pre-Gain. Some put a compressor pre-OD to accomplish this, however the ideal is to have it all in one pedal.

I've got a Blackberry on the way from One Control, and am very interested in the Futura however given the cost I first look forward to someone hopefully posting clear comparisons between the two.

Will you be making a bass amp?

I hope you'll continue to participate on this forum, and wish you the best in your future endeavors.

 

[Beheroth]

I left Bearfoot because Donner refused paying me royalities for use of my designs.

Bjorn was let go from Bearfoot after being given the choice of making chinese Honey Bees with One Control or leaving the Honey Bee as a BearFoot production

 

[Beheroth]

also this

At your service
Bjorn Juhl
Proprietor
BJF Electronics
Sweden
Analog engineer at One Control
I also currently design for a variety of companies
Moody-Sounds kits
Olsson Amplification
Ekblad Amplification
Vuorensaku Guitars
Lundgren Pick Ups

To be noted I no longer work with Mad Professor Amplificaton but they will continue to produce the 42 products I designed for them

same vibe

 

[StayLow]

^ With respect, if they're not being petty why should any of us be?

These two posts above add nothing to the discussion and risk inflaming what is otherwise a remarkably civil thread in which both parties stated their version of events.

Given we're very fortunate to have either of these builders participating here, much less both, and in this thread, so let's not risk it getting derailed or closed. No need to take sides in a battle that's already been fought, or pick nits.

If you're an owner or buyer, take it into account. That's personal.

 

[Dave Hill]

Bjorn, thank you so much for posting here.

I think you'll get a great, and perhaps confusing, array of desires from bassists. There is some consensus that the "Holy Grail" is a mild overdrive that sounds natural, defined and doesn't compromise the tone put into it.

The superstars in this regard include the Barbershop and MBD-1 along with of course the 3BOD.

Here's what is missing for me in the bass effects world, and I think many 3BOD fans would agree ... basically a 3BOD or Barbershop that does NOT get too wild when hit with a much harder input signal such as striking a chord, playing hard with a pick, etc. For those of us who play with dynamics, this is where issues often arise.

In the case of the 3BOD I would only ask for less gain ... for example so that the gain when it is set fully counter-clockwise is totally clean up to maybe 9 o'clock and the gain evident at noon is at full clockwise, and the ability to retain a natural top end if tilting the Nature to the bass side.

An internal user-adjustable trim for the Gain like the MDB-1 or Phat Phuk has can get close to this goal, however then there's no grit on regular level playing. While most praise touch sensitivity, having less of it may be the solution.

Another method may be to slightly compress only levels above a certain amplitude pre-Gain. Some put a compressor pre-OD to accomplish this, however the ideal is to have it all in one pedal.

I've got a Blackberry on the way from One Control, and am very interested in the Futura however given the cost I first look forward to someone hopefully posting clear comparisons between the two.

Will you be making a bass amp?

I hope you'll continue to participate on this forum, and wish you the best in your future endeavors.

Haven’t encountered this problem. Maybe my input signal is lower(?).
Also, maybe try running a higher voltage the the 3BOD(?) I was told they are good up to 15v.
For me, the touch sensitivity and feel of the 3BOD is what makes it stand above the rest.

 

[Beheroth]

^ With respect, if they're not being petty why should any of us be?

How are they not being petty ? they litterally jumped on a thread where OP is just asking for the alternatives to the blueberry OD to accuse each other of being owed money by the other one.

Given we're very fortunate to have either of these builders participating here, much less both, and in this thread, so let's not risk it getting derailed or closed. No need to take sides in a battle that's already been fought, or pick nits.

I genuinely don't care about the drama between them, i just think it's funny how they felt the need to bring it in.

At your service
Bjorn Juhl
Proprietor
BJF Electronics
Sweden
Analog engineer at One Control
I also currently design for a variety of companies
Moody-Sounds kits
Olsson Amplification
Ekblad Amplification
Vuorensaku Guitars
Lundgren Pick Ups

To be noted I no longer work with Mad Professor Amplificaton but they will continue to produce the 42 products I designed for them

ok maybe i'm the only one who sees this as unnecessary bragging, sorry my bad

 

[StayLow]

How are they not being petty ? they litterally jumped on a thread where OP is just asking for the alternatives to the blueberry OD to accuse each other of being owed money by the other one.

I'd also prefer threads stay on original topic, however the schism between them was brought up in the thread, then details asked about, with someone referring to info about it on some other site (which may not have accurate info) before they weighed in.

ok maybe i'm the only one who sees this as unnecessary bragging, sorry my bad

The man is a living legend in the effects and amps world, not needing to boast, so you could be correct while I just read it as his way of complying with this site's C.U.P.

 

[StayLow]

Haven’t encountered this problem. Maybe my input signal is lower(?).
Also, maybe try running a higher voltage the the 3BOD(?) I was told they are good up to 15v.
For me, the touch sensitivity and feel of the 3BOD is what makes it stand above the rest.

A lot of people say the only thing they dislike about certain OD pedals is that they make a displeasing "kazoo" sound when hit with a hot input. I don't recall reading this complaint about the Blueberry, but although it sounds more natural when hit hard it still does get a lot woolier. Most basses and playing styles won't cause this.

The Blueberry is awesome, so when it comes to suggestions on how it could be improved I think we're naturally going to get down to some fairly esoteric stuff not everyone will agree on.

I appreciate your suggestion of feeding it higher voltage. Donner said the same earlier. Not everyone has, or wants to acquire and use, a 12v or 15v supply, or a compressor to put in front of it. Still others demand their pedals can run on battery power, have extremely low noise even if on daisy-chain power, etc. Again, it gets nitty-gritty into personal needs and preferences at some point. How people travel and where they gig, for example.

Even with the higher headroom per more voltage, it'll still have the characteristic of much less effect when playing softly and far greater - for some undesirable - effect when hitting it hard. In this case it can be like a tube amp then, where unless you're really hitting hard (or loud in the case of the tube amp) you don't get the desired sound. Or I'd liken it to an EQ that changes your tone depending on how hard or soft you play. Does that actually exist? Could be a great idea in some applications. Anyway some might dig that, some definitely won't.

I was suggesting what could otherwise be described as less dynamic range from very clean to too dirty, that's more like a shelf to use the EQ analogy, so that if you hit it very hard there's no more distortion than if you hit it at say 60% or even 30%, while at 0-0% it's quite clean.

These high-level builders are here asking for input. That's my Holy Grail and from what I've read online and heard in real life, it's a common concern. Not complaining or criticizing in the least, to be clear. I understand that to do this might add complexity to the circuit and cost that few would pay for. But some sure would. I would.

Ah... strong coffee this morning.

 

[tommyeadg]

Just got in the One Control Blackberry! Super stoked.

Like i mentioned before i’ve already briefly owned the BJFE Blackberry before. I decided to return it beause i already had a BJFE Futura and they were so close in terms of sound i couldn’t justify keeping both, considering its costs. I was expecting the OC BB to sound the same as the BJFE BB, which it really does apart from one small thing: The OC doesn’t roll off as much treble as the BJFE does. For me, this is a good thing, since it makes it way more transparant. I love it! I decided to make a dedicated One Control micro board powered by a PT Volto power supply:

 

[BearfootDonner]

A lot of people say the only thing they dislike about certain OD pedals is that they make a displeasing "kazoo" sound when hit with a hot input. I don't recall reading this complaint about the Blueberry, but although it sounds more natural when hit hard it still does get a lot woolier. Most basses and playing styles won't cause this.

The Blueberry is awesome, so when it comes to suggestions on how it could be improved I think we're naturally going to get down to some fairly esoteric stuff not everyone will agree on.

I appreciate your suggestion of feeding it higher voltage. Donner said the same earlier. Not everyone has, or wants to acquire and use, a 12v or 15v supply, or a compressor to put in front of it. Still others demand their pedals can run on battery power, have extremely low noise even if on daisy-chain power, etc. Again, it gets nitty-gritty into personal needs and preferences at some point. How people travel and where they gig, for example.

Even with the higher headroom per more voltage, it'll still have the characteristic of much less effect when playing softly and far greater - for some undesirable - effect when hitting it hard. In this case it can be like a tube amp then, where unless you're really hitting hard (or loud in the case of the tube amp) you don't get the desired sound. Or I'd liken it to an EQ that changes your tone depending on how hard or soft you play. Does that actually exist? Could be a great idea in some applications. Anyway some might dig that, some definitely won't.

I was suggesting what could otherwise be described as less dynamic range from very clean to too dirty, that's more like a shelf to use the EQ analogy, so that if you hit it very hard there's no more distortion than if you hit it at say 60% or even 30%, while at 0-0% it's quite clean.

These high-level builders are here asking for input. That's my Holy Grail and from what I've read online and heard in real life, it's a common concern. Not complaining or criticizing in the least, to be clear. I understand that to do this might add complexity to the circuit and cost that few would pay for. But some sure would. I would.

Ah... strong coffee this morning.

This gives me an idea - something I was contemplating, but for a different reason - expanded gain range up AND down... is that what you are seeking?

 

[BearfootDonner]

... as far as alternatives ~~~~ have any of you ever tried the Model H on bass? Ive seen a couple bassists use Hiwatts .... and I sent Phil Lesh the Blueberry and the Model H and he chose and is using the BearFoot Model Hs since the GD50 shows ... it is an alternative vintage bass tone that I also dig.

 

[Funkdified]

... as far as alternatives ~~~~ have any of you ever tried the Model H on bass? Ive seen a couple bassists use Hiwatts .... and I sent Phil Lesh the Blueberry and the Model H and he chose and is using the BearFoot Model Hs since the GD50 shows ... it is an alternative vintage bass tone that I also dig.

I'll be glad to use one if you send it to me haha.

 

[StayLow]

This gives me an idea - something I was contemplating, but for a different reason - expanded gain range up AND down... is that what you are seeking?

In those terms, I'd say expanded gain range down. Up doesn't matter and if anything it could be decreased, meaning less gain at the lowest AND highest levels.

 

[StayLow]

... i’ve already briefly owned the BJFE Blackberry before. I decided to return it beause i already had a BJFE Futura and they were so close in terms of sound i couldn’t justify keeping both, ...

Mind expanding on this? Any details appreciated - how they sound same or different, controls, etc.

 

[tommyeadg]

Mind expanding on this? Any details appreciated - how they sound same or different, controls, etc.

To my ears the BJFE Futura and the BJFE Blackberry are 90% the same pedal. They both are classic 3BODS; dynamic response, feel, flavour and amount of breakup are the same. The three knobs Volume, Gain, Bass/Depth are the exact same on both pedals. The difference lies in the 4th control of the pedal:

The Futura has a treble knob which basically acts as a low pass filter, meaning fully CW = flat. In other words, you can control the amount of treble roll off.

while the Blackberry has a 'Body' knob which controls the 200-350 hZ low mids and is boost only, meaning fully CCW = flat. There is always some roll off of treble present.

(Maybe @Bjorn Juhl can chime in on this, this is how my ears perceive it)

The fourth knob enabled both pedals to cut through the mix more, albeit in different ways. The Futura can slice through a mix, with all treble content of the original signal untouched, while the BB can bulldozer through a mix adding low mids. If that makes sense, lol. Both very useful, but in the end i figured there was never a real lack of low mids on the original 3BODs, i only wished it would pass a little more treble, which is exactly what the Futura is able of. So that's why i decided to keep the Futura in favour of the Blackberry a few months ago.

That being said, now i have the One Control Blackberry it seems to me this version of the Blackberry doesn't roll off as much treble as the BJFE Blackberry i had, which i think is a good thing. The 3BOD has the reputation of being a 'dark' sound. The Blackberry is slightly less dark. The Futura and Blackberry are slightly different flavours of the same basic GREAT overdrive sound.

 

[Funkdified]

@tommyeadg well now that you have both again what say you as to which is better OC or futura?

 

[BearfootDonner]

In those terms, I'd say expanded gain range down. Up doesn't matter and if anything it could be decreased, meaning less gain at the lowest AND highest levels.

Right the expansion of gain range is probably more useful to individuals like you said, most would either want more up OR down but not use both... though some that cover a wider range of styles and situations might have use for both at sometime... options are good.

 

[tommyeadg]

@tommyeadg well now that you have both again what say you as to which is better OC or futura?

I still gravitate towards the Futura since it was such a love at first sight kinda thing when i first got it. But all things considered, it’s a toss up between which one actually sounds the best. I’d be perfectly happy using either.