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Bona improvisation

A

adri24an

Nov 2, 2007
80
0
41
Madrid, Spain
www.myspace.com
Disclosures
Endorsing Artist: TC Electronic Amps, Ernie Ball Strings, Monocases
#1
Hi dude!

how are you? i have read a thread that you wrote in talkbass and i have loved it! (http://www.talkbass.com/forum/archive/index.php/t-262242.html)

reading what you wrote about bona, i have to make you a question that nobody has answered me yet... why richard always plays the SAME lick in every solo he plays??? and the most important thing... what does he plays in that lick?

if you have heard him soloing a couple of times i suppose that you know what i am talking about!

thanks for your help!

peace!
 
#2
that lick......

yes, I know the one. And I'm afraid to say I cringe every time I hear it. All it says to me is that the person playing it never did any homework, and doesn't have any depth to their improvisational voice.

And sadly, whenever that lick is played, the audience tend to go nuts about it. Which leads me to think how untrained the listeners ear is.

I think there are a few ways to look at this:

1. Richard is a genius because he's been able to play what must amount to 1000's of bass solos using one lick, and has managed to get away with it and still wow audiences around the world.

2. Richard is not a genius, and the people who come to see him play just don't care enough about music to give a ****.

3. The genius is not in the lick, but in the delivery of the lick, and when richard looks into the crowd with the cheesy mischeivous grin, people feel compelled to applaud and shout and scream.

4. Maybe this is the silliest topic of conversation ever. who knows? it's all a matter of opinion.

I hate the narrow mindedness of playing the same thing over and over again. All it does is display that he can't play over changes, and resorts to the same crap each time. But hey, it works for him. He is the great Richard Bona, he has an incredible career, he has more fans than I'm ever likely to have, and he seems to be really happy doing what he does. So you can't relly argue with that. I happen to love a lot of what he does and is capable of doing, but it has nothing to do with the bass at all. it has to do with music. And I think Richard is at his most open and most creative when he is singing and playing a simple nylon string guitar or percussion part.

There's a Pat Metheny Group DVD live in Korea that Richard is on, and when he plays solo with voice and percussion, it's some of the most beautiful sutff I've ever heard.

Forget about the lick, listen for music.

Easy,

Janek
 
#4
can you imagine mike stern's or joe zawinul's faces when that talented and cretive boy they hired was playing the same solo night after night during all the tour??? ;):):) janek, it could be possible to know what mr stern have to say about this? ;)

it's frustrating to hear him in the same concert playing the same solo that you heard him play 100 times before, and then hear him doing something like this...



i suppose that only music is important...
 
#7
I think I'm missing out. Is this a solo/lick over every set of changes given to him (plays the same exact lick in giant steps, my funny valentine and a night in tunisia) or is it more of a solo piece he does?
 
#9
Ok, the bona lick...
Its almost completely chromatic which is why he can use it on pretty much every thing. You can start it on any scale degree of the chord 'of the moment' but obviously some will sound more acceptable than others. In a C tonality (lets say, startin on the fifth) it moves down chromatically two notes G,Gb then up a flat fifth to C, then F,E,D,Db up another flat fifth to G, then C,B,A,Ab,D,G. When you get it up to speed you'll here that its the 'tri toned' notes that give these lines there angular sound. This is just an example, there's probably millions of variations....well a few hundred anyway! Because the line's pretty much chromatic its your startin note and target note which is most important.

I don't use these licks or specific chromatic devices because they are soooo bona and stick out like a sore thumb, the moral of the story is leave him up to it coz he's killin at it and don't be a crap copy! Still it's fun to try and get these things down and all knowledge is good knowledge!!

On another note....Keep on that killin playin Janek, your drive is inspirational to us all. Also are you around NY in January coz i'm over there for a month and want to catch a lesson with you.

Cheers. Scott.
 
#11
devine said:
I don't use these licks or specific chromatic devices because they are soooo bona and stick out like a sore thumb, the moral of the story is leave him up to it coz he's killin at it and don't be a crap copy! Still it's fun to try and get these things down and all knowledge is good knowledge!!
Click to expand...
Agreed. I can appreciate it like anyone else. The funny part is, he DOES have other tricks in his bag. He should use them more :)
 
#13
Have to chime in. I agree with Janek on most points (including preferring Richard's MUSIC and singing to bass soloing. He kind of drives me nuts when he solos because I know he is SO much more musical than that). BUT.. EVERYONE plays licks. Janek has done exceptionally well at being more spontaneous and transcending his licks, but he still has them (major arpeggios moving in minor thirds, etc...) But they are all also very unique and very much his own. Mike Stern, Scofield, McLaughlin, Michael Brecker, Coletrane all use/used licks, Wooten is a huge lick player, I drive myself NUTS because of my licks, etc.. Jaco and Stanley Clarke were/are two of the biggest lick players in famous bass player history.
You can't really bag on people for having catch all licks. It's more a matter of taste and placement. We're not all capable of being completely in the moment and inventive every second of every solo. Sometimes a lick can function as a way to add stability to an ambiguous musical moment. there are as many ways to use licks thoughtfully as there are to just kill time and try and get a hoot out of someone.
Ideally, we will all transcend our instruments and habits and play only in service to the moment (musical enlightenment). Just hasn't happened yet and may never. We are all on a similar path of our own making and we are always using what we've learned up until this point as tools for growth. It's all a matter of taste. Some people have bad taste (in other peoples opinions), some people have good taste (in many peoples opinions), but it's really just a question of "does this sound good?" and "am I serving the song" or "am I bull*******g my way through this because I have no idea what else to do and that chick up front seems to dig it?"
 
#14
okay....

PLee, whoever you are....

keep the bullsh*t to yourself and continue to post in here, or don't and be banned from the forum. I take a lot of time out of my schedule to maintain a healthy dialogue with people who want to discuss things related to music and to the bass. If you can't read, and don't realize that what I write in here is my opinion, and not some gospel or law about the way life is, then that really is too bad. If you think music is related so closely to violence because one person's opinioin is different from the next, then that too is rather sad.

Please, if you would like to be a part of this forum and join in the discussions here, take another read of the posts, and realize that what was said was entirely positive, and that there would be no reason for Richard being violent towards me. We live in the same city, share the mike stern gig, work with lots of the same people, and I have a lot of respect for Richard. And I'm told, from Stern, that he has a lot of respect for what I do too.

If you want to call me names then first of all that is a sorry state of affairs when that's all the rhetoric you have left to resort to, and secondly it's cowardly and closed minded. I have no time or respect for that sort of behaviour.

Damien.....

it's great when the chick up front digs it right? got to love that.

I did a clinic with Hiram once and a question came from the audience..... "Hiram, why did you get into playing music?"

and the one and only answer you might expect from Hiram....

"Girls..."

human interaction whatever form it takes, be it musical or otherwise, should come from a place of love and respect. I am very fortunate to have found music as a way of communicating with people, and so far it seems to be working. I hope that this thread doesn't get away from the fact that in the case of Richard Bona I respect and love him as a musician and a human being very much. Just because I have an opinion about one aspect of his vocabulary doesn't diminsh anything.

easy,

Janek
 
#16
Just want to chime in, I'm becoming a huge lick player.
I'm working on Kim No 1 by Charlie Parker. Playing the A section, and 2nd B section, and i HATE it.
But damn does Parker have a lot of licks that I've stolen.

Also, when I was at the Randy Brecker clinic, he admitted to being a HUGE lick player.
 
#17
pLee said:
----------------------
You, friend, have a Jesus complex.
Click to expand...

This is the most interesting part of the whole talkbass site, with réal players like Janek and Damien Erskine and all the guys I only know by screen names but are serious students and/or players (including myself). A part of the site where a lot of honesty is portrayed by those who really care and dedicate a big part of their live to music, not just the top40 weekend warriors. Where people put themselves in a vulnerable position and share knowledge earned only by their own experience.

Please don't screw this up by starting a flame war.
 
#18
thank you for your kind words.

there will be no flame war, nothing to worry about. this forum is still about all the things you just mentioned, and will continue to be so.

I don't even know what a Jesus complex might be, used in this context so I couldn't retaliate to a war even if I wanted to. Which I don't.

If this is a way of reaching out for help, and not knowing how to ask for it, then I'm more than patient enough for that to come out. If it's just a case of narrow mindedness, then I'm afraid I don't have the time to sit and work through it, as there are so many more people on here that have great questions, great conversations, and a great amount of respect for the music.

And that's all I care about. My family, my friends, and a respect for the artform. Sometimes it pays to be simple, and can be a lot more rewarding too.

Easy,

Janek
 
#19
Hey Janek, I just wanted to drop a line to let you know that I've read probably every word you've ever typed on this forum and have received an incredible amount of knowledge and inspiration from it. I know you are a very busy man and I greatly appreciate you taking the time, as I believe many others do.

Unfortunately, the anonymity of the internet has the potential for abuse (notice that none of these trolls ever have any personal information whatsoever in their profiles), and I felt that this might be the right situation to show you my gratitude for your efforts here.

It's pretty unbelievable to have a world class musician offering his time and wisdom on a regular basis for free.

Thanks!
 
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#20
Mark Wilson said:
Just want to chime in, I'm becoming a huge lick player.
I'm working on Kim No 1 by Charlie Parker. Playing the A section, and 2nd B section, and i HATE it.
But damn does Parker have a lot of licks that I've stolen.

Also, when I was at the Randy Brecker clinic, he admitted to being a HUGE lick player.
Click to expand...

I'm also studying a chunk of Bird at the moment, analyzing heads and solos and taking melodic ideas from them. I see it as developing a vocabulary which I don't yet have. Each time I learn a new intervallic pattern and apply it over changes I become more aware of my instrument and how to move through changes.
 
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