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Boogaloo Bass 101

P

Pops McSlappy

Jun 11, 2008
17
0
L.A.
#1
Hey JMJ! This is my first post as a brand-spankin' new member of this thing. Had to join just to pick you's brain....a cool opportunity!

So, my first question is this- a few times in interviews you've mentioned an approach/pseudo-genre referred to as 'boogaloo'. I feel like I know what you're talking about, but correct me if I'm wrong: fast, rolling funk-style grooves, usually native to soundtracks of 60's and 70's Brit, French and Italian movies and tv specials. Perhaps some crossover into certain strains of Bollywood tracks too... the bass style being a hyped marriage of Jerry Jemmot, Carol Kaye, early 70's TCB-era Jerry Scheff, and 'Taxman', rocked with a pick. Am I close? And a lot of foam under that bridge....

Wondering if there are particular albums that one should metabolize to get this really fun style into their blood? Or, a better question, what do David Holmes and Jason Falkner listen to when hanging out together? ha.

Thanks for your time!
 
#2
There you go, you know the deal. Scheff, Osborn, Kaye, Jemmot, Herbie Flowers, etc.

I dunno, man. I just listen to French and Italian comps that I get in Japan...it's all in there, amongst mountains of film scores and stuff.

What do Holmes and Falkner listen to? That's a good point...Holmes basically puts on old records and gives you that as a jumping off point to write something new. He's got great taste.

JMJ
 
#3
Thanks man! yeah, those 'Oceans' movie scores are ill. Had to be a fun gig. Seems Holmes knows vibe.

I guess I shoulda mentioned Chuck Rainey in my boogaloo dna list too. He gets busy. Amazing that these session cats from the day were able to get away with some of that stuff!

Speaking of busy, are you a Leigh Gorman fan??? One of my faves, and nearly totally unsung.
 
#4
I love boogaloo bass! Mainly just because I like to say "boogaloo." But those fat and busy bass parts of the 60's are the shizzy. I think that's why more than anything Justin has done, "Sexx Laws" connects with me like no other. And thanks to guys like Justin, that sound is coming back and I couldn't be happier.
 
#6
Sexx Laws is my all-time (so far) JMJ jam as well. Ridiculous.

And yeah, i also feel that boogaloo bass' (it IS SOOO fun to say!) time has come again!

Anybody else have any searchable examples of this type of stylistic thing? I mean, there's always stuff like 'Memphis Soul Stew' and 'Tighten Up' as a primer, and some Ike and Tina things, etc., but I want to go deeper, to where the bass player is just crazed and going off....and then rip off all those licks!!!!
 
#7
Atlantic Records is always a great source. Just off the top of my head, "Baby I Love You" and "Think" by Aretha, "Funky Broadway" by Wilson Pickett. It's not as well known as some of the songs of the day, but "Skinny Legs And All" by Joe Tex has an outstanding boogaloo line.

Carol Kaye did a really cool jazzy boogaloo with Mel Torme on "Games People Play" if you want a different take on it. Carol's got some books with good boogaloo lines written out that I learned a lot from.

I'm not very familiar with what you and Justin are talking about as I don't hear a lot of these movie and TV soundtracks you're referring to. Got any titles of the best of it?
 
#8
Yeah, JimmyM, you're right on with the Atlantic suggestions...and the Joe Tex! I love 'Skinny Legs'! I'm gonna have to dig for the Mel Torme one though...

The soundtracks I was referring to are from the movies 'Oceans 11, 12 and 13'...killer grooves laid down by composer David Holmes and many sessioneers, including JMJ, Jason Falkner and Tim Lefebvre. They are full of tha boogaloos.

Since getting into my itunes earlier to listen to the Joe Tex, et al, I ran across a few sorta more modern (well, not new but not 60's or 70's) examples of boogaloo bass influence in a few unlikely places..."Freedom 90' by George Michael is pretty rad. Bass played by....George Michael (!!!???). "Subway to Venus' by the Chili Peppers. Many Verdine White performances, but especially 'Happy Feelin'...HOLY ****! that line RIPS! That's the kind of stuff I'm after. well, like that kind of stuff combined with 'Happy Jack'...
 
#9
...oh, and JimmyM, I have no idea of any titles of the old European soundtracks we mentioned earlier, that's the info I need too! I just remember the vibe of the music from watching weird old movies here and there, but don't remember enough to know where to start looking!
 
#11
What a great thread! Don't know if I'd qualify the Al Foster or Gil Scott-Heron stuff as boogaloo, but why not? it's an evasive, hard to quantify sub-genre.

I basically think of it as very uptempo, melodic soul with hyperactive basslines. And all the Italian/French stuff of that ilk that appeared in so many film scores of the '60's and early '70's was of course directly ripped from Wilson Pickett, James Brown, all the artists mentioned.

The Atlantic stuff is a great resource.

Whoever happened to mention Leigh Gorman, I think he's incredible, though certainly not in the "boogaloo" category.
 
#12
I think you could make a case for that Al Foster tune being boogaloo, but the Gil Scott-Heron song seems to be a little too prepared and controlled sounding. I think one of the elements of boogaloo is a loose sense of abandon, like it was the first time they ever played it and it's one step away from falling completely apart. It's a fine line, though. "Funky Broadway" has a line that repeats identically every two bars, yet I'd call it boogaloo because it's got that urgency and sense of abandon. OTOH, I think of tunes like "I Second That Emotion" and "Hey Bulldog" by the Beatles as boogaloos, and someone else might think they're not uptempo or loose or R&B enough, so there you go. YMMV. I guess we need to ask someone in authority to make a ruling for us.

Justin???
 
#13
Any action/drama series from the 60,s or 70,s has some pretty cool music scores. Watch some reruns on T.V. land. you,ll hear many of the aformentioned studio bassists of the day layin down the groove. I,ve copped a lick or two from TV shows.

Old Muscle shoals or Stax stuff and most definitely anything from New Orleans is worth a listen.
 
#14
This is awesome! An incredible thread! Thanks all! And I don't care if it's boogaloo or not, that Al Foster and GS Heron stuff is MINDBOGGLINGLY GOOD! Best bass playing I've heard in ages! Thanks a million for posting that! If there's any more of that stuff around, give it up people!

Yeah JMJ, Leigh Gorman came to mind, mainly because he's so amazing...and so BUSY! But never out of the pocket. Insane.

yes Jimmy M., I think the nearly-off-the-rails element is a crucial ingredient to the elusive boogaloo! Gives it some kick!

Here's a link to the aforementioned Earth Wind & Fire tune...enjoy!
http://youtube.com/watch?v=p_o686VIHKI
 
#15
bluesblaster said:
Any action/drama series from the 60,s or 70,s has some pretty cool music scores. Watch some reruns on T.V. land. you,ll hear many of the aformentioned studio bassists of the day layin down the groove. I,ve copped a lick or two from TV shows.
Click to expand...
What I love about those shows is when they show a nightclub scene with all these cool people dancing, and it's some cheesy thrown-together old person's imitation of rock and roll, and you wonder how these supposedly cool people could enjoy that music ;)

Found out when I got older that it costs a fortune to license real tunes!
 
#16
Since David Holmes was brought up, I just watched Oceans 13 last night the bass grooves in the background music was super cool.
Made me want to run to the man cave after the movie was over.

That was you JMJ, even on the URB?
 
#17
Cool topic. I love the Holmes stuff on the Ocean's soundtracks. Two bands come to mind when I here this stuff or think of boogaloo and that's the Greyboy Allstars and the James Taylor Quartet. Those bands both touch on this sort of music in their own way.
 
#18
mortar said:
Since David Holmes was brought up, I just watched Oceans 13 last night the bass grooves in the background music was super cool.
Made me want to run to the man cave after the movie was over.

That was you JMJ, even on the URB?
Click to expand...

I only played electric, but the duties were shared by myself and Jason Falkner, so I'm not sure what's what that you're hearing.

Best,
JMJ
 
#20
Funny you ask that, TaySte. I've always thought it was thick and funky basslines that are fairly busy against a heavy soul groove, and that guys like Jerry Jemmott, Chuck Rainey, and whatnot were the bassists doing it. Carol Kaye has tons of similar exercises in her books that she calls "boogaloos."

But in the new BP, John Goldsby writes an article about playing with Maceo Parker and playing the boogaloo, and says it was developed by Cuban musicians in the late 60's trying to incorporate funk grooves in Cuban music. He has an example of it written out, but it's a 3 against 4 kind of line that sounds more Cuban than funk. It comes from Maceo, so it's hard to argue with the lineage, but I thought the boogaloo had been around much longer than that.
 

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