BLASPHEMY!!!! I KEPT UP WITH THIS WHOLE THREAD AND WATCHED EVERY SECOND OF GLORIOUS STEELERS FOOTBALL ACTION! FOR SHAME
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Boutique Basses are Better: Get Over It!
- Thread starter Dr. Cheese
- Start date
BLASPHEMY!!!! I KEPT UP WITH THIS WHOLE THREAD AND WATCHED EVERY SECOND OF GLORIOUS STEELERS FOOTBALL ACTION! FOR SHAME
Dude i've watched it twice on NFL network! I just missed alot of the second half! Big Steeler fan here dude ! One of my buddies played with the steelers in the 70's won 2 superbowls! Go Steelers!!
Since I started this post, I need to remind you that I said that just a because a certain class of basses tend to be better made, that is no reason not to enjoy the bass you have.
More importantly, a better made bass may not be comfortable for you or have the sound you like. For years, I wanted a Streamer, and bought one a week ago today, but when I took it to a serious rehearsal, it hurt my arm so badly, I returned it, and I am currently playing a super cheap Affinity Jazz, and it suits me much better than the Warwick although the Warwick is 100x better. In fact the Squier sounds so good (although it needs shielding) I am tempted to keep it!
I started this thread to state the obvious because too many arguments having started over something that makes no sense. It's kind like saying that generally a bigger person will win a fight, it doesn't mean that every big person is tougher than every small person, but all things considered, size makes a real difference in a fight.
What's different about the Streamer? How did it hurt your arm?
Absolutely. I'm not worried about the basses I don't like. I concern myself with basses I'm going to enjoy.
Jazzdogg
Less barking, more wagging!
+1
Having read as far as your post, I haven't yet seen anyone reach agreement on what constitutes a "Boutique" bass.
The bassist who orders an instrument directly from Skjold, Sadowsky, Tobias, et al, and collaborates with the maker to obtain a bass that satisfies his every desire would be likely to consider the resulting instrument "Boutique." On the other hand, someone who buys the same axe from a music store may consider it "merely" a high-end ready-made bass.
One of the reasons I've never paid more than $600 for an electric bass is because I routinely re-shape and refinish every bass I buy to suit my needs. I try to buy instruments that sound good, are comfortable in my hands, play easily, have decent electronics, balance well, and so forth. Everything else is up to me.
Were I in a position to collaborate with a custom instrument maker, I would probably want to build and finish the body myself, and have him take care of the neck, hardware, and electonics. We'd each do what we do best. Problem is, I can't afford that kind of collaboration, and a custom builder probably wouldn't want to have his name on the headstock of an instrument with a body that was built and finished by someone else. Good thing the name on the headstock, in and of itself, is unimportant to me.
I don't doubt that there are custom basses that are inarguably superior to factory-made basses in at least one clearly demonstrable attribute. My questions usually revolve around the fuzzy point on the graph where the "X" of suitability for my needs, and the "Y" of cost intersect. In other words, how much more comfort, playability, etc., do I get for my money?
For those in a position to obtain custom basses I say more power to you. Great. You're fortunate, indeed. Even if it's just for looks and bragging rights. Fantastic. Glad you're happy.
For those, like me, who have to wrestle with conflicting demands for my time and money, and obtain instruments that satisfy our needs at a reasonable cost, I say life is good. Enjoy it. Do the best you can with what you've got, and don't worry about what it says on your headstock.
As I've heard some of the kids at school say, "It's all good."
Jazzdogg
Less barking, more wagging!
Your Rob Allen basses are clearly different than the vast majority of basses on the market today in terms of style, appearance, timbre, and playability. Additionally, I have every reason to believe that Rob Allen builds fantastic instruments.
The uniqueness of Rob Allen basses mnakes them particularly well-suited to you, and makes it easy to differentiate from other basses.
But, are Rob Allen basses undeniably superior to other basses? Ultimately, that's a question that each bassist has to answer for himself: there are no right or wrong answers.
I think a couple of things were going on. First, the Roscoe Beck has a very full sized body which forced my hand into a slightly different postion, and it caused me some tingling. Then the Warwick had a very tiny body and a very thick neck. The combination of those two just set me off. I just need a bass the size of a Fender Standard or Deluxe to accommodate my right hand positoning.
I think a couple of things were going on. First, the Roscoe Beck has a very full sized body which forced my hand into a slightly different postion, and it caused me some tingling. Then the Warwick had a very tiny body and a very thick neck. The combination of those two just set me off. I just need a bass the size of a Fender Standard or Deluxe to accommodate my right hand positoning.
That blows. You seemed really into that Warwick judging by the thread you made on it. Oh well, as long as you didn't take a $$$$ beating on it.
+1
Having read as far as your post, I haven't yet seen anyone reach agreement on what constitutes a "Boutique" bass.
The bassist who orders an instrument directly from Skjold, Sadowsky, Tobias, et al, and collaborates with the maker to obtain a bass that satisfies his every desire would be likely to consider the resulting instrument "Boutique." On the other hand, someone who buys the same axe from a music store may consider it "merely" a high-end ready-made bass.
One of the reasons I've never paid more than $600 for an electric bass is because I routinely re-shape and refinish every bass I buy to suit my needs. I try to buy instruments that sound good, are comfortable in my hands, play easily, have decent electronics, balance well, and so forth. Everything else is up to me.
Were I in a position to collaborate with a custom instrument maker, I would probably want to build and finish the body myself, and have him take care of the neck, hardware, and electonics. We'd each do what we do best. Problem is, I can't afford that kind of collaboration, and a custom builder probably wouldn't want to have his name on the headstock of an instrument with a body that was built and finished by someone else. Good thing the name on the headstock, in and of itself, is unimportant to me.
I don't doubt that there are custom basses that are inarguably superior to factory-made basses in at least one clearly demonstrable attribute. My questions usually revolve around the fuzzy point on the graph where the "X" of suitability for my needs, and the "Y" of cost intersect. In other words, how much more comfort, playability, etc., do I get for my money?
For those in a position to obtain custom basses I say more power to you. Great. You're fortunate, indeed. Even if it's just for looks and bragging rights. Fantastic. Glad you're happy.
For those, like me, who have to wrestle with conflicting demands for my time and money, and obtain instruments that satisfy our needs at a reasonable cost, I say life is good. Enjoy it. Do the best you can with what you've got, and don't worry about what it says on your headstock.
As I've heard some of the kids at school say, "It's all good."
I understand your position, and appreciate your points. Remember, saying boutiques are better is not the same as saying they are practical or make economic sense. For some, shelling out $4,000 for a Jazz Bass is affordable. For some heavy hitting pros, it makes sense financially. For a gospel heavy hitter, getting a Ken Smith, MTD, or Pavel, gives himm the sound he wants, and if he is making his money back in gigs, cool.
That said, I have seen Maurice Fitzgerald turn out a choir with a Cirrus or Fender Jazz four string. Sharay Reed is unreal with a 1990's Fender Jazz Deluxe V.
Dr. Cheese is not unintelligent, he is not a fool, and he's not a moron. What in the world pissed you off so much that you had to resort to name calling?
Thanks so much for the kind words.
Jazzdogg
Less barking, more wagging!
Good post, Ken - as usual.
One other attribute small custom builders bring to the table is accessibility - you can pick up the phone and speak directly to a decision maker who will take responsibility for the outcome and has a personal interest in your satisfaction.
I don't claim that any of the custom furniture I make is demonstrably better than the stuff my peers make. But, I know beyond a doubt that my stuff is better made, and better finished, than what you'll find at the local furniture store, and the people for whom I build can pick up the phone, talk directly to me, and get what they want; most of the time we form friendships that last for years. Try that with Fender or at the furniture store in the mall.
Problem is, custom furniture has a higher cost than ready made. But, there is a middle ground that's gaining traction: A handful of my cabinetmaker friends have formed a co-op that enables them to obtain volume discounts by pooling their purchases; they each pay less for the sheet goods, screws, and glue with which they make their custom cabinet boxes, and they buy ready made cabinet doors and drawer fronts from large suppliers at discounts normally reserved for the big boys; economies of scale enable them to buy less expensively collectively than they can individually. I wish TB had a bass builders' co-op that would enable us to pool our purchases of hardware, strings, and so forth, to obtain bulk purchase discounts.
When it comes to basses, some of us are happy with Ikea or Sears, some want to buy from the shop at the mall who sells the brands most likely to make an impression, and some prefer a relationship with a custom builder.
I make my music gear purchases based on two things: a brand's reputation, and the largest possible amount of money I have free to spend during a given period.
Little else matters, least of all what other people prefer for themselves.
Is a thing pious because it is pious and that's why the Gods love it, or is it pious only because the Gods love it?
Little else matters, least of all what other people prefer for themselves.
Is a thing pious because it is pious and that's why the Gods love it, or is it pious only because the Gods love it?
Me too! No stabbing the internet here.....
Gotta love all these philosophical discussions between civilized adults, no?
I spent many years in the fashion business designing and making men's custom suits. in the case of a quality suit, there are certain features that are not typically available in a mass produced garment. The individual preferences and needs of the of the customer were built into each custom suit. Also because of the many hand made operations the finished product literally fit like a glove. I can say that I clearly can understand why many musicians who want a more unique instrument choose something that appeals to their personal taste. Having said that, I have played basses that were under $500.00 that were great value for the money and tried out high end instruments that were not.
Jazzdogg
Less barking, more wagging!
+1 Knowing what we think we want, and having a qualified builder, doesn't guarantee that we will be satisfied with the completed product, even if it is custom; it's harder to hit the bullseye if you're given only one shot at the target.
go the the fender factory (USA models and Custom Shop) in Corona, CA. I just did recently and after seeing it, I'd definitely refute your claim. They work with hand on everything except CNC. I watched hand buffing, polishing, sanding, testing, etc. and have a newfound appreciation for the production line fenders.
most love to hate them, but they're just as solid.
most love to hate them, but they're just as solid.
