Boutique Basses are Better: Get Over It!

[manutabora]

Someone else has mentioned that most professional players do NOT play on boutique basses. I am not a pro myself but I'm going to take a stab at explaining why this is. I'm guessing professionals find gear that works for them and stick with it, as opposed to us laymen who love to always be trying out the latest and the greatest. Also, by definition, a professional bassist would be one who makes their living playing bass, correct? Well, unfortunately this type of career may not be the most lucrative and probably most of these cats have other priorities (raising a family) more important than owning a boutique bass.
Not bashing the boutiques or their owners in anyway. I myself some day hope to own a US Masters...

 

[PBass101]

I might get flamed for this... But as far as pro bassists and boutique basses go, I tend to see the better, more talented players using nicer, higher-end basses than those who, to be polite, don't necessarily need custom-tailored sound and playability.

 

[davec]

except they do not seem to be the tools that most professional bassists use. Why not? (I'm honestly asking why not, because I'd like to know)/QUOTE]

I know this has been answered quite well, but I'll put my .02 cents in....

If you learned on a Factory and have played one all your life, that Factory bass will be very comfortable to you. Combine with that the fact that it is tonally familiar, and that most manufactures have more resources when it comes to the endorsement end.

It surprises me that as many players do play boutique basses. I think that it really speaks volumes that boutique builders as well as small high quality companies have as many players willing to pay more as they do.

I've played a old Smith BT custom for a few years now. I've owned many higher end boutiques in that time and many factory basses. The smith is special to me after several years and a recent hand custom pick up set by Lakland. It is without a doubt my goto bass, backed up by a fine skyline 4402. The last goto bass I owned was a 1998 Warwick Thumb.
I had to sell it to make Dr bills and it took me about 4 years and several Pedulla's, a warrior, Spectors, Fenders, Warwicks, Ibanez's, a a modulus, and many other great basses before I found this one and it took me several years to completely decide this was the one.

I agree with the general thought.

Boutique = better quality (usually)
Goto bass = the relationship between the musician and his tool.... wait that sounds wrong

never mind

BTW the Smith set me back about $780.00 used and that made it sound even better

 

[rcarraher]

Every once in a while someone posts about gear snobs or wonders if boutique basses are really worth the money. Some, like myself, have wondered if they are really that much better than factory basses.

The bottom line is most boutique basses are better made than most factory basses. That does not mean that the boutique bass will give a particular player the sound that he or she is after, and it does not mean that a given boutique will be comfortable or look appealing to any given player. What quality means is that compared to a similar factory bass, the boutique will have better fit and finish, will likely take a better set up, will probably be quieter, and will have better components like tuners, pots, etc.

The fact that the boutique is better than the factory bass does not mean that the factory bass is bad or that it wouldn't be a great tool for a music career or hobby. Just look at all the pros who can afford boutiques who use factory basses!

I know I'm not saying anything new. I just think that we need to face facts and move on. Most importantly, we need to play good music regardless of the price of our gear.

:scowl:Tsk, tsk. It comes down to one thing. That thing that makes Boutique Basses, boutique basses is that they are made by hand, by people. Thats also their down fall. People make mistakes! And its not just the fit and finish, its also the parts that are used. This is one person who through a weak ego has defined for himself what "best" is, not through the use of "proven" use of parts that are readily available and available in bulk. Seems to me that the parts on "non boutique basses" weren't the best, there wouldn't be so many of them! On the other hand, your $100 bass is made by a machine, in a factory, using parts that are made by the thousands by the lowest bidder, using machines that can do things quicker and without the ego hidden behind the use of "creativity". Obviously, these basses adhere to the capitalistic principle of "supply and demand". But this so called boutique builder, otherwise known as an artist. He tries to rethink things, exercise artistic creativity in a sad attempt to reinvent the wheel, or in this case the pickup, bridge, tuners and electronics! What he calls an eye for detail, cost us money!

The thing that makes this all obvious as most boutique builders will even tell you, straight up, that no two of their basses are the same! They will also try an convince you that all the hours put into the hand finish make a better finish, that the use of their hardware, that can't out sell the hardware used on toys guitars, are made better, that their hand wound, purpose built pickups are better than the ones made by the thousand and built by machine.

Just think for yourself people, if the boutique bass was such a great instrument, everybody would have one. Lets hear it for cookie cutter basses, enough of the so called artist building these master pieces.

Once you get right down to it the only thing these boutique basses have going for them is the soul of the builder, the eye of a master, the quality of a someone who takes personal pride in workmanship. Now how do they ever expect to compete with thoughts like that? Is that what we want in a musical instrument?

 

[NYCBass]

My 2 cents. I have 12 Basses. That alone is crazy. What really makes it crazy is this. I have 4 Fodera NYC Basses "see where the name comes from" and 8 other Basses that are really cool. Go to my myspace page if you want to see them. Okay here is the deal. I go out to do a gig, I take an NYC. I go to do a recording hit, I take an NYC. Yes my other Basses are cool but when it comes down to it, that's it ! ! ! Trust, I know the tone is killer. I know the Bass will NOT let me down. I know that the people I'm playing with will dig it. I know the audience will dig it "and not even know why" and recording they just sound Great.

So whatever your Bass is that you feel that way about, that's your boutique instrument. If you payed 5,000.00 or 500.00. If you feel that way about your Bass and payed 500.00 for it, God has blessed you.

 

[johnnydi]

Back in the 80's I was endorse by a guitar/bass builder which I consider boutiques. Don't get me wrong, I was not super famous or anything or even that good of a bass player. I was 19 years old and I was playing in a band that had a lot of exposure for a short time and the company wanted the exposure too. They came to me and offer me to try their basses.so I said "SCORE". Now do you think, super well known artist endorse by fender get a bass off the rack at GT? No they get the best the company can offer. In the case of Fender, they have a custom shop that build basses the way they use to build them back in the days of Leo ( or at least they try ).

Its like that for all the makers. In the case of super well known musicians, they even get huge amount of money with the deal.

Think of it this way. Back in the 50's and 60's, when Leo was making basses or guitars. They were boutique instruments! then like everything else, quality went down the drain.


I own boutique and factory basses and like them both. In the case of the boutiques. I liked them right away. I the case of the of factory, I have to try 50 basses before I fall in love with one.

The reason I buy myself a boutique bass and pay the price I pay is because that's the cost of making a good quality instrument for a luthier today. The table top thing as nothing to do with the quality of the basses. Its just a $100 to $200 upgrade. You want a scull on your bass, I want burl maple.

If you could go back in time would you buy a 60's fender at $400 or a Univox at $80

Its the same thing today except the names have change. Although I would take the Univox before a lot of basses of the rack a GT.

 

[king_biscuit]

No bass is better or worse than any other bass -- it's subjective. Now what was the point of this silly rabble rousing thread?

 

[Dr. Cheese]

No bass is better or worse than any other bass -- it's subjective. Now what was the point of this silly rabble rousing thread?

I think you can objectively measure the ability of a bass to take a set up, the amount of noise it makes, the sweep of its eq, the quiteness of its pots. An experienced tech or player knows good and finish. You know if a bass has quality tuners or a good bridge. YOu can look at the quality of the fret job.

In other words, there are solid ways to judge the effort put into a bass and the quality of the result.

 

[Bryan R. Tyler]

:scowl:Tsk, tsk. It comes down to one thing. That thing that makes Boutique Basses, boutique basses is that they are made by hand, by people. Thats also their down fall. People make mistakes! And its not just the fit and finish, its also the parts that are used. This is one person who through a weak ego has defined for himself what "best" is, not through the use of "proven" use of parts that are readily available and available in bulk. Seems to me that the parts on "non boutique basses" weren't the best, there wouldn't be so many of them! On the other hand, your $100 bass is made by a machine, in a factory, using parts that are made by the thousands by the lowest bidder, using machines that can do things quicker and without the ego hidden behind the use of "creativity". Obviously, these basses adhere to the capitalistic principle of "supply and demand". But this so called boutique builder, otherwise known as an artist. He tries to rethink things, exercise artistic creativity in a sad attempt to reinvent the wheel, or in this case the pickup, bridge, tuners and electronics! What he calls an eye for detail, cost us money!

The thing that makes this all obvious as most boutique builders will even tell you, straight up, that no two of their basses are the same! They will also try an convince you that all the hours put into the hand finish make a better finish, that the use of their hardware, that can't out sell the hardware used on toys guitars, are made better, that their hand wound, purpose built pickups are better than the ones made by the thousand and built by machine.

Just think for yourself people, if the boutique bass was such a great instrument, everybody would have one. Lets hear it for cookie cutter basses, enough of the so called artist building these master pieces.

Once you get right down to it the only thing these boutique basses have going for them is the soul of the builder, the eye of a master, the quality of a someone who takes personal pride in workmanship. Now how do they ever expect to compete with thoughts like that? Is that what we want in a musical instrument?

I'm hoping this post is a joke- if not, this is one of the most ill-informed posts I've seen in the Basses forum in 7+ years. I don't even know where to begin with it. Help me John Turner- you're our only hope
Invalid Link Removed

 

[Dr. Cheese]

I'm hoping this post is a joke- if not, this is one of the most ill-informed posts I've seen in the Basses forum in 7+ years. I don't even know where to begin with it. Help me John Turner- you're our only hope
Invalid Link Removed

I'm pretty sure it was tongue in cheek.

 

[johnnydi]

I think you can objectively measure the ability of a bass to take a set up, the amount of noise it makes, the sweep of its eq, the quiteness of its pots. An experienced tech or player knows good and finish. You know if a bass has quality tuners or a good bridge. YOu can look at the quality of the fret job.

In other words, there are solid ways to judge the effort put into a bass and the quality of the result.

Not to mention the quality of the wood which ad to the longevity of the instrument.

 

[Bryan R. Tyler]

I'm pretty sure it was tongue in cheek.

I'm hoping There's no smileys in there though, so I'm worried.

 

[ChrisGuerre]

Either way, as many have said, an instrument is just a tool, It truly doesn't make a difference. One compared a bass to a pencil, there are hardly any ergonomic inequalities in a pencil, however, inna a bass, there are. People are different, a bass balances differently on a linebacker than on the running back. If it's one thing someone considers in an instrument, it should be balance. Boutique builders are far more likely to have this in mind than white collar dorks who found their way to the top of any said commercial joint who's outsourced their work to benchworkers who live in the warehouse they work at in Indonesia. I am guessing anyone out there who would play a standard J bass would surely not turn down an Alembic if they could afford it.

To me there's no comparison in the quality of a boutique bass and commercial. But when you forget your awesome Boutique in the trunk and park it in the sun during your day job, If you had a neck-through, it's done for, can't be adjusted anymore. It's warped! Also, you had better know someone good around town for repairs because my friend (who has worked at Parker, Gibson, Dean etc.) gets instruments all the time that were butchered by so-called service people at local music stores. (most of his work comes from these places!) Conclusion: Keep a few clunkers around and drag those around with you, hang the boutique on the wall and take it out for a seldom gig that isn't an outdoor festival during the most humid part of the year.

There's just no question that Alembic or Sadowski mops the floor with any commercial bass out there. It's like comparing Taco Bell to your finest steakhouse, It does all come out the same! However, Taco Bell, you will probably find inconsistency, irregularity and probably colin cancer! One maker is indeed finer quality. Does it make a difference? I'm putting my chips on boutique, but it's like wine if you order the Bordeaux and was hoping for a light, crisp, citrus finish with hints of fig and apricot, than you need to do some research to find that you were looking for a Pinot Grigio. It's a taste thing, the palate should be developed like ones's touch, feel and taste.

 

[king_biscuit]

I think you can objectively measure the ability of a bass to take a set up, the amount of noise it makes, the sweep of its eq, the quiteness of its pots. An experienced tech or player knows good and finish. You know if a bass has quality tuners or a good bridge. YOu can look at the quality of the fret job.

In other words, there are solid ways to judge the effort put into a bass and the quality of the result.

What exactly is wrong with the stock American Fender tuners and bridge -- are you having tuning problems? I think the tuners are made by Schaller or Hipshot, no? Ability to take a setup? Again what problems have you had with typical American Fenders? Amount of noise it makes? Again? American Fenders use CTS pots and basically the same type of pickups as Sadowsky, Lakland, etc. And I don't recall you stating that an "experienced tech" pronounced "boutiques" better than say stock American Fenders, I believe those were your words, Cheese. "Better" is a normative term and just because you think one bass is "better" than another doesn't make it a scientific fact? You really didn't think this thread would turn into a flame fest? Hey get over it!

Edit to add smiley face:

 

[Dr. Cheese]

What exactly is wrong with the stock American Fender tuners and bridge -- are you having tuning problems? I think the tuners are made by Schaller or Hipshot, no? Ability to take a setup? Again what problems have you had with typical American Fenders? Amount of noise it makes? Again? American Fenders use CTS pots and basically the same type of pickups as Sadowsky, Lakland, etc. And I don't recall you stating that an "experienced tech" pronounced "boutiques" better than say stock American Fenders, I believe those were your words, Cheese. "Better" is a normative term and just because you think one bass is "better" than another doesn't make it a scientific fact? You really didn't think this thread would turn into a flame fest? Hey get over it!

I am way beyond worrying about flame fests at this point in my life unless they get personal. We disagree about basses till the cows come home.

Yeah, I love Fenders, Music Man, USA Peavey, and Yamaha among others. I rock factory basses all day long. I just think boutiques are put together better most of the time.

 

[bassbenj]

Once you get right down to it the only thing these boutique basses have going for them is the soul of the builder, the eye of a master, the quality of a someone who takes personal pride in workmanship. Now how do they ever expect to compete with thoughts like that? Is that what we want in a musical instrument?

Let's go for the question do pros play boutique basses? Well, If we can divide basses into boutique and factory instruments, we probably need to divide pro musicians into two groups as well.

I find that pro musicians come in two groups. Those that give a damn and those that don't. Some pros only care about the pay at the end of the gig, still play the first rig that ever sounded decent to them, never do any set up on their instruments unless it just about stops playing, have developed "their sound" and always sound that way no matter what music or style they are playing. Like Jamerson, interests often lie more in the next bottle of hooch than the music they are playing. Often in spite of it all, have so much talent that they can make a broom handle and piece of clothesline give a hit sound.

Then there are pros that do care about it all. They often are in famous bands or bands that once had hits but are now exploiting themselves. Bucks are no problem. Often own several walls full of instruments and carry maybe 20 of them on tour. All are maintained by a tech. Often the basses change with each song. Attention to detail is the name of the game not only in sound, and style but also appearances of the instruments. Hence the herd of basses includes BOTH "boutique" and "factory" basses and they are there for what they bring to the show not for how much they did or did not cost which is irrelevant to these players.

So what does it prove? It proves that if you just want to play using "your sound" you just search all combinations until you find it and when you do, that's what you play forever. Boutique or not boutique. If you are looking for basses that do EXACTLY what you want it to do for you, then each bass is it's own special little story. The story might be a certain luthier who can give you just what you want. It might be a certain Squirer that you lucked into that is one in a million, or it might be some low end factory bass that you personally tweaked and modded until it did everything you wanted EXACTLY the way you wanted it to.

Hey, the last guy is me. (Except for the famous band with hits, wall of instruments and cash is no object part) The first guy represents some other players I know (and might be related to!).

Fact is that if you see a pro playing what you THINK is a factory bass, you can't be sure that it really is one. To me a factory bass that has been personally modded and hand setup and tweaked to give me precisely what I want from it is no longer a "factory" bass. My SX is NOT a "factory bass". It clearly is a boutique bass with me being boutiquer! Yes, SX supplied the raw materials for my bass and I started with a factory bass rather than some logs from a tree, but I don't care. So long as what I've got when it's finished makes the hair stand up on the back of my neck, I'm happy. You guys can argue as to whether or not it's a "real" boutique bass.

Oddly enough I'd say about the only bass I own that is still just as it came from the factory is my Carvin Acoustic. And that doesn't really count because it's a semi-boutique bass because of the array of Carvin options I ordered it with. So I don't think that "boutique" and "factory" are as well-defined as you think when it comes to basses.

 

[js1]

Had a 72 Pbass, that I sold (it was a classic example of all that was wrong with the Fenders of that era), and bought a Peavey Foundation as a stopgap. When I started gigging regularly, I wanted to get a better bass and went to every store I could to find an instrument that spoke to me. Tried a ton of Fenders (this was in 2007) and they all were.... OK. No magic.

The one that finally did was a boutique. Not because of the status (unimportant to me), but because of how it felt, it played and it sounded.

On a recent trip, I got to meet the guy who made it. My instrument was no accident. It was clear that it was his passion and a point of pride to make the absolute best instrument that he could.

js

 

[johnnydi]

Let's go for the question do pros play boutique basses? Well, If we can divide basses into boutique and factory instruments, we probably need to divide pro musicians into two groups as well.

I find that pro musicians come in two groups. Those that give a damn and those that don't. Some pros only care about the pay at the end of the gig, still play the first rig that ever sounded decent to them, never do any set up on their instruments unless it just about stops playing, have developed "their sound" and always sound that way no matter what music or style they are playing. Like Jamerson, interests often lie more in the next bottle of hooch than the music they are playing. Often in spite of it all, have so much talent that they can make a broom handle and piece of clothesline give a hit sound.

Then there are pros that do care about it all. They often are in famous bands or bands that once had hits but are now exploiting themselves. Bucks are no problem. Often own several walls full of instruments and carry maybe 20 of them on tour. All are maintained by a tech. Often the basses change with each song. Attention to detail is the name of the game not only in sound, and style but also appearances of the instruments. Hence the herd of basses includes BOTH "boutique" and "factory" basses and they are there for what they bring to the show not for how much they did or did not cost which is irrelevant to these players.

So what does it prove? It proves that if you just want to play using "your sound" you just search all combinations until you find it and when you do, that's what you play forever. Boutique or not boutique. If you are looking for basses that do EXACTLY what you want it to do for you, then each bass is it's own special little story. The story might be a certain luthier who can give you just what you want. It might be a certain Squirer that you lucked into that is one in a million, or it might be some low end factory bass that you personally tweaked and modded until it did everything you wanted EXACTLY the way you wanted it to.

Hey, the last guy is me. (Except for the famous band with hits, wall of instruments and cash is no object part) The first guy represents some other players I know (and might be related to!).

Fact is that if you see a pro playing what you THINK is a factory bass, you can't be sure that it really is one. To me a factory bass that has been personally modded and hand setup and tweaked to give me precisely what I want from it is no longer a "factory" bass. My SX is NOT a "factory bass". It clearly is a boutique bass with me being boutiquer! Yes, SX supplied the raw materials for my bass and I started with a factory bass rather than some logs from a tree, but I don't care. So long as what I've got when it's finished makes the hair stand up on the back of my neck, I'm happy. You guys can argue as to whether or not it's a "real" boutique bass.

Oddly enough I'd say about the only bass I own that is still just as it came from the factory is my Carvin Acoustic. And that doesn't really count because it's a semi-boutique bass because of the array of Carvin options I ordered it with. So I don't think that "boutique" and "factory" are as well-defined as you think when it comes to basses.

+1
I'm a finish carpenter and a damn good one in today's world. But take me to Europe or Japan 100 years ago and I would be ashamed of my work.

 

[ChrisGuerre]

I'm hoping this post is a joke- if not, this is one of the most ill-informed posts I've seen in the Basses forum in 7+ years. I don't even know where to begin with it. Help me John Turner- you're our only hope
Invalid Link Removed

I ordered a G&L 4 string from it's brand new Indonesian factory and It came fresh with an "S curve" (bowed in two different directions) in the neck also over-sanding on the back of the neck towards the body that you could actually see with the naked eye! Mistakes a machine should not be making. (not all of the work is done on an assembly line) There's no magic or art involved in building a guitar, just math. You just need to find a builder with this in mind. Craftsmanship? That G&L I bought, It came off the machine line too, with many imperfections. Who do you call? It then becomes a runaround talking to 4 different automated recordings before you finally reach someone and realize their policy is only "trade or repair" and you pay for shipping! When "Good afternoon this is so and so with Sadowski, we got your message you left yesterday how can we make this right FOR YOU?" What's that worth to you? Factories don't make nice guitars. Effort and patience do, a guitar that took half a day to build next to the 1200 others that MUST be ready to be shipped in a container as soon as possible or some contract gets violated, is not the instrument I want. Meanwhile, you and I get flawed instruments. Imagine also, Indonesia in the summer has to be one of the most HUMID places to try to work with WOOD. I.E. the warped neck. Where was Quality Control on that? The answer: They have become to large of a company to effectively communicate and mange themselves. You can be sure the factory isn't air conditioned or climate controlled, Their quality control sucks! Furthermore, so does their customer service and their crappy instruments! I guarantee, you wish YOU had an Alembic! All I know is someone working on a $4000.00 dollar bass isn't going to let it slip out the door with a "double bow" in the neck.

The whole commercial instrument scene has gone down the toilet to people's kids inheriting the company, or getting bought out by this giant or that mogul. These people don't play guitar, they watch Bruce Springsteen play his Fender Custom Shop Telecaster from their concert season box seats at the local LA arena. It's just a perk.

 

[MNAirHead]

Cheese.

I absolutely love this thread - thank you.

I sincerely admire and respect your suggestions of gear and hold in high regard that you match the bass to the request not the typical "I love my ... " replies.

=============

At any given time I own 30-50 basses (have owned 500+ over the years)... multiple reasons - many time it's for fun or testing. I believe we share gear rotation as part of our mutual fun.

I own 8 custom botiques and never suggest people go down this route (botique) as their primary choice. If someone is a botique customer, they normally know exactly what they want and budget/resale almost vanish - a true botique customer knows what they want and search a luthier who can consistantly deliver on the want.

1-Comparison between production basses and botiques are not fair.. chances are most primary production basses can use a fine tune, tweek and final fit/finish before comparison to a botique.​

2-Upper end production basses (after they're setup) will normally compete very strong with a botique.. basic spirit of this thread is the fit finish is in botiques.. you can do this to a production bass.​

3-None of my gear depreciates as fast as the botiques.. it is much easier to find a new home for a production run bass someone has heard of.. it's easier to find a hidden gem deal in a used production run bass - then get it setup..​

I don't hate my botique stuff.. I can't honestly say that after a high end production bass is setup dialed in and fine tuned that it's a better value for the average user for the average use... there is a wide price gap between a used upper end production bass and a quality botique

When a poster asks about a tone or feel... I'll normally suggest a well setup higher end production bass and keep the extra loot in the retirement fund... basses are horrid investments or retirement plans.

Many folks for get the "tone" or "feel" their idol has includes staffing for sound production and luthier fitting.

Good post Cheese -

Tim