Brass nut upgrade

[Bruce Johnson]

But would his stock bridge and nut have resulted in less sustain from his foam mute that is the big question?

Also how much sustain do you really need?

I really haven't encountered any basses that couldn't hold a note for a couple of bars, and how often do you actually need a note to ring through for more than a couple of bars?

This is a very common misunderstanding around here. When we talk about increasing sustain, we aren't concerned about how many seconds the note rings out. Like you say, who cares?

When we talk about Sustain, we're referring to how far the sound level drops down after the initial pulse. On a bass with high sustain, there's not much difference between the initial pop and the steady note. Even on an eighth note, the note is more of a steady tone than a pop. On a low sustain bass, after the pop, the level of the steady note drops way down right away and continues dropping off.

That's what we Luthiers mean when we talk about ways to increase or reduce Sustain. It's the shape of the note on the Attack Curve; somewhere between a steady tone and a percussive pop. And there's no single best answer. Players want different levels of sustain for different sounds and musical styles.

 

[202dy]

This is a very common misunderstanding around here. When we talk about increasing sustain, we aren't concerned about how many seconds the note rings out. Like you say, who cares?

When we talk about Sustain, we're referring to how far the sound level drops down after the initial pulse. On a bass with high sustain, there's not much difference between the initial pop and the steady note. Even on an eighth note, the note is more of a steady tone than a pop. On a low sustain bass, after the pop, the level of the steady note drops way down right away and continues dropping off.

That's what we Luthiers mean when we talk about ways to increase or reduce Sustain. It's the shape of the note on the Attack Curve; somewhere between a steady tone and a percussive pop. And there's no single best answer. Players want different levels of sustain for different sounds and musical styles.

So what you're (we) are really describing is the slope and duration of the decay portion of the ADSR curve. It is about controlling decay rather than increasing sustain.

 

[Bruce Johnson]

So what you're (we) really describing is the slope and duration of the decay portion of the ADSR curve. It is about controlling decay rather than increasing sustain.

Yes, that's what we mean by Sustain. It's the shape and slope of the ADSR curve, just after the pulse, not how far to the right that the curve extends. Beyond the length of a whole note, hardly anybody really cares how long it rings out.

But here on TalkBass, any time a thread gets into the subject of Increasing Sustain, somebody steps in with the argument that increasing sustain is pointless, because there's no need to make notes ring out for seconds. Yeah, we know, we know. That's not what we mean.

 

[LarryG]

Just wanted to briefly chime in on one point: I installed a brass nut on my Ibanez "Black Beauty" lawsuit LP-copy decades ago and it has not moved at all. No problem with the glue not holding it in place.

 

[Bruce Johnson]

Another old thread full of good information...Another point to add to the discussions:

There's an important difference between a muddy thump and clear ringing sustain.

There are usually four places where the string is in direct physical contact with the structure of the bass. The tuner post, the nut groove, the bridge saddle groove, and the inside of the tailpiece where the ball end seats against it. Then there are the spots where those metal parts contact the wood: The tuner seating against the headstock, the nut seating on the neck, the bridge saddle seating on the bridge base, and the bridge base/tailpiece seating on the body wood.

The important point is that, to get clear ringing sustain, all of those things have to be solid and rigid. Every single one of them. If a single one of them is soft and squishy, you get muddiness. If two or more of those things are squishy, stiffening up one of them isn't going to get rid of the muddiness. They all have to be solid and rigid to make it ring. And if any one of them goes soft, you get mush.

That's why there are so many arguments about how this hardware change was a miracle, and someone else did the same thing and it made no change at all.

To give a bass clarity and sustain, you have to do a whole list of things, without skipping any. A single hardware change will bring out amazing sustain only if it was previously bad, and everything else was right. And on the contrary, a single squishy hardware part installation can make the whole bass muddy...even if everything else is solid and tight.

 

[Thegrandwazoo]

The only thing I've ever seen metal string nuts do better than good, hard non-metal ones (so, corian, micarta, bone, graphite, Tusq, etc.) is look dumb, fall off/move, and resist filing or other shaping. I'm not a big tone snob, but I have pretty good ears and can't really tell a difference between brass or aluminum and normal nut materials.

I'm not saying brass nuts necessarily suck, just that I don't think 90% of us would realize any benefits from one. If you have a crappy, soft plastic one, though, I do recommend upgrading it to one made of a better, harder, slicker material. At the very least, check (or have a luthier do it) and correct if necessary the measurements and condition of your existing nut.

 

[Thegrandwazoo]

I had a brass nut put on my Ric 4001 way back in the day, and it made a small difference (or so my ears told me) in sustain and brightness. I think the huge bakelite Ric nuts are tone suckers, but have no objective proof to offer to back that up. They don't seem too well seated on the neck, and are really tall. If nothing else, they look nice if you keep them polished up occasionally. Is there any pro/con as far as dissimilar metal reactions? Stainless strings and brass or aluminum nut leading to corrosion? I never saw any unusual corrosion on my Ric with brass nut and stainless rounds, just the usual brass tarnish.

Brass is pretty inert as far as galvanic reactions are concerned. Aluminum, not so much. A drop of oil or dab of graphite per slot should prevent it, though, and I do that at every string change regardless of nut material.

 

[LarryG]

Nice post, Bruce!

 

[Bruce Johnson]

I use aluminum for almost all of the external hardware on my basses: Nut, bridge saddles, bridge body, tailpiece, neck plate and strap buttons. They are all machined from 6061-T6 bar stock. The control plate is 6061-T651 plate stock.

On my fancy Classic models, I polish up the neck plate and tailpiece, and have them Bright Nickel plated. On my Walnut models, all the aluminum parts are just "brush finished", that is, lightly sanded to about 220 grit.

One of the interesting characteristics of aluminum is that it is self-anodizing. If you leave it lightly sanded, it will build up a thin layer of corrosion, and then stop and not get any worse. Anodizing is actually a thin layer of corrosion on the surface of aluminum, which protects the metal underneath from further corrosion. My brush finished aluminum parts will typically get a little duller over the first few months, and then they'll stay that way for years. However, if you polish aluminum up to a full shine, then it needs to have some kind of coating to keep it from tarnishing and looking ugly.