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Double Bass Brian Bromberg

My response was meant more in the spirit of, "I agree with your point, and yet...I wonder why you felt it necessary to make it in that way (with a negative spin on BB rather than a positive spin on your goals)". In fact, I don't know if BB is "better" than MM5 or not, since I've never heard MM5 play; all I know at this point is that BB can play circles around me. :)

NHØP isn't my cuppa, but the last thing I would want to do is to bust on him for having a ton of chops. I just don't really see the point, and I can't think of a way to say it that doesn't at least hint at sour grapes.



Yep, I'm a fan, but not a blind one. Most of "Wood II" isn't my cuppa either. But that doesn't mean that he's all flash, or that his playing can be reduced to and summarily dismissed as "Van Halen chops on upright". I've done a few lifts of Brian's stuff, and to me, they prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that, "chops oriented" or not, the man knows how to play changes when he wants to, and he ends up playing lines that many horn players would envy. He does certain things that I might choose not to do, or not do as often, if I had the ability to do them in the first place. And like many others, I like the way higher string height feels and sounds. But in spite of all of that, I do feel that Brian has raised the bar a bit in some ways, and I would like to give him props for that at the same time as others are expressing their slightly less than complimentary opinions (which they also have a right to do). I'm attaching a lift of Brian playing on "Dolphin Dance", in case anyone would like to argue that Brian can't play over difficult changes. :)

So sure, speak your mind about what you like and don't. And if you feel the need to say something negative about a player in print in public, be prepared for others to speak their minds as well.

Nobody ever said he can't play over changes! There's no doubt that Bromberg plays great solos--he obviously has a great command of bop language and some modern stuff too, and can execute some ridiculous stuff. The thing he does that bothers me is that right in the middle of a great bebop line, he starts play some hair metal tapping stuff! While that's cool in a certain context, what would you think Wes Montgomery or Sonny Stitt did that? I think it sounds out of place. I really appreciate the Dolphin Dance transcription, and I'll definitely check it out, but just by glancing over it I can see that he does exactly what I'm talking about during the G pedal section.

He's a monster player, with incredible chops, his sound appeals to a lot of people, and he's a killer electric player, but like you said about NHOP (by the way, how did you get the / throught the O?), he's just not my cup of tea.
 
Y'know, Bruce, every now and then we agree absolutely. It took me a long time to stop saying "this sucks and is very bad" and to start saying "I don't like this."

It's OK at a certain level - but there is still a big part of me that says Mahler's Symphonies (for example) are intrinsically greater than some Top 20 pop song that was written in 5 minutes! :p
 
It was the bass-only cover of Shinin' Star by Earth, Wind and Fire that clinched my decision to purchase Wood II. But you should know, j, that there's also a cover on it of Paul McCartney's 1975 hit, Let 'Em In, so you may want to reconsider.

No, it's not exactly an album of jazz standards, but that's part of the appeal, right? Not for everyone, of course. (When I compared BB to Eddie Van Halen I wasn't doing it disparagingly, I was just groping for a comparision.)

When talking about all the gear, there might be a love-hate thing going on. From a purist's standpoint, a double-bassist really shouldn't be too into amplification, but almost everyone cares about it on some level, and there was indeed something fascinating about BB's giant amp stack and multiple pick-ups. Maybe for me it's because I used to play bass guitar. But there's definitely a crossover thing going on, which is not a bad thing.

Same thing with the live show itself. It was sort-of Tower of Power-ish, but definitely much jazzier, so one can't just write it off.
 
The interesting part of his sound is that he has found a way to be in your face with a very present, gnarly, growly thing yet it retains the character of an acoustic instrument. In your face bass! Many bassists have a lowendy thing with some pluck sound, very polite, very tucked into the background. BB is in your face.

I love it. I think he has tons of energy and that's good for DB not usually the center of attention. I think he is one of the most exciting guys to come around in while on this instrument.

His choice of material.... I get it. We obviously grew up listening to similar things. I think the arrangements work well. Once again, new energy, new way of approaching the instrument... It's good for DB. Nothing against standards, just think he's looking to include some new sources of inspiration as well as more traditional ones.

BB will be responcible for getting some youngsters interested this instrument. IMO Non-musicians are taking note as pointed out in another post.

Q: How does he get his sound? A: Practice!

Light strings, low action, tons of amplification and processing and amazing hands and talent.
 
I've been enjoying reading this thread. FWIW I really love Jimmy Blanton, Paul Chambers, Ray Brown, Ron Carter (just to name a few old favorites) as well as George Mraz, NHØP, Stanley Clarke, and Brian Bromberg. To me, they're all great in their own ways.
 
He's a monster player, with incredible chops, his sound appeals to a lot of people, and he's a killer electric player, but like you said about NHOP , he's just not my cup of tea.

It's all good. :)

(by the way, how did you get the / throught the O?)


D'oh! I only know how to do it on a Mac...can't get it to work on the PC I'm on at the moment. Can anyone help us out on this one? (On the Mac, I learned to do it while using Sibelius, since it's the same symbol as "half diminished". Maybe we should all just write NH-7b5P instead?)
 
You know, in response to the above "what if Sonny Stitt did that?" comment...I actually kind of hear Brian and Sonny as kindred spirits. Both hellacious players who lean(ed)toward lots of notes. I think if those Van Halen trills were in Sonny's vocabulary he would have used them...my. 02...

I dunno, I hear them kind of similar.
 
D'oh! I only know how to do it on a Mac...can't get it to work on the PC I'm on at the moment. Can anyone help us out on this one?
Special symbols such as "Ø" are available on PC's running MS Windows in something called the Character Map. To open the Character Map, click Start, point to All Programs, point to Accessories, point to System Tools, and then click Character Map. If you find you need to use this often, you can put a shortcut to the Character Map on your desktop or wherever it's convenient.
 
It's OK at a certain level - but there is still a big part of me that says Mahler's Symphonies (for example) are intrinsically greater than some Top 20 pop song that was written in 5 minutes! :p

It might seem off-topic, but I think it's part of what we're talking about here so I'm gonna respond...

Mahler's Symphonies (for example) may be vaster, more complex undertakings; they may contain much newness and richness in harmony and melody; they may be true master pieces.

None of those attributes necessarily matter a whit in terms of the music's impact on people. I would never say those attributes map appropriately over to the word "greatness". But that's just me.

Music has an amazing and beautiful ability to affect people emotionally, to bypass the brain and make you feel something first. The older I get the more that principle fascinates and motivates me.

Those symphonies are great, but let's take a simple pop tune like, oh, Greensleeves. Hundreds of years old and hundreds of millions of people could whistle or sing the melody to it right now. That's pretty darn great too, in my books. It's like comparing the cathedral at Chartres to a Sam Maloof rocking chair -- both are magnificent examples of human vision and craft but the scales are vastly different.
 
It's not off-topic. It reminds me of that post from last year where the question basically was, "Is or isn't John Pattitucci the greatist bassist who ever walked the earth?"

How could people agree about somehting like that? You can't measure a musician's goodness or greatness by how high his action is, how well he plays sixteenth notes in thumb position, or by any other kind of objective factor.

What it comes down to is, Does the person speak to you and move you? If so, then he has succeeded where someone with greater technical prowess might not. But it's necessarily a subjective thing, ie, a matter of taste.

I dig Paul Chambers more than almost any other cat, and someone could probably make an argument that he isn't technically as good as many other people. But so what? (No pun intended.) Even if you argue that P.C. has great "swing," how do you quantify that or compare it to someone else's sense of swing?
 
Special symbols such as "Ø" are available on PC's running MS Windows in something called the Character Map. To open the Character Map, click Start, point to All Programs, point to Accessories, point to System Tools, and then click Character Map. If you find you need to use this often, you can put a shortcut to the Character Map on your desktop or wherever it's convenient.

Or just get a Danish keyboard. Besides the free inclusion of 'Ø', other perks are the 'Æ' and the charming 'Å'!
:eyebrow:
 
On one hand, I completely understand what you're trying to say. On the other, feel free to post soundclips of your deeper musical persona at any time.

Come on Chris, sound clips from me are somehow going to prove my statements above criticism from you or somehow show Brian Bromberg is worthy of my critique?
And I don't think I have a deeper musical persona than Brian, I'm just saying to Fingers it's ok to speak your mind (not that he needs my encouragement).
By the way, the "show us what you got" thing is predicatable.
So is criticism of Bromberg, to be sure (beat you to it).
Peace.
MM5
 
My objection was in part based on the wording, "I wish for a deeper musical persona, not Van Halen chops on upright.", which you don't have to stretch very far to read as saying that Brian's playing is more about the latter than the former. I probably should have simply said, "don't discount his musical persona just because he has chops". You are of course free to dislike the Brian's playing - I just think it deserves much respect, like it or not.
 
Would anyone happen to have a transcription of his version of All Blues from Wood? Even just a small part would help. I could do it myself but I need the first minute or so of his solo for an assignment due in the morning :P

On a side note, has anyone here heard his album "Choices?" Is it just me or is this album pretty bland?
 
Thanks for this thread! I have a question that, thus far, has not been addressed: what's his rig? I have a similar approach, I think—lighter touch, more amplification needed, for better or worse—and I currently do not own any sort of amplification for my bass. I love the sound BB gets on "Freedom Jazz Dance" on Wood II—listened over and over again. Part of that is obviously studio miking and a gorgeous bass, but the guy plays plenty of road gigs, and I assume he sounds fantastic.

I suppose my question has two parts, then: (1) What does BB use? (2) How much of that rig is worth buying for my (more modest) purposes?

Thanks for being an awesome forum, Talkbass.
 
No disrespect the BB, but I just want to point out the HUGE difference between NHØP - who was a full-time double bass virtuoso, including arco and Mr. Bromberg who through set up and idiosycratic approaches has managed to translate a lot of his phenomenal bass guitar technique to a severly altered double bass.
Both awesome but differently awesome, and one is just way more relevant to my ideas about the instrument than the other.
 
Man I love this. It is so cool listening to everyone's opinion, awesome!

I just want to clarify a couple things:

I started on upright bass first, long before I played the electric bass. My two handed tapping technique on the upright as well as the electric bass evolved from being a drummer and using my hands independently and percussively. I played a lot of classical music and with the bow for at least half of my life. I love classical music and playing with a bow, no better way to learn to get a sound and play in tune, but I found playing jazz, improvising, and blowing over chord changes more rewarding for me and changed me forever.

As far as gear is concerned I have three pick ups and a mic on my bass. I only use one pick up and one mic when I play live. Because all of the pick ups on my bass are permanent or semi permanent installations, there are a lot of wires coming off my bass.

As far as stomp boxes I only use one pedal for my upright and that is an EBS Dynaverb 20 bit digital reverb pedal. I only use it when I am soloing or playing a melody. I use no compression, limiting, or any other effects on my upright bass live.

I usually play my upright through a 4x10 cabinet, and here is why. I play bass, and a bass is an instrument that goes down to 30 to 42 cycles depending on if you play 4 or 5 string. Why would I play an instrument through a speaker system that can't reproduce the frequency of the instrument I play? Small rigs are light and portable, and sound better then ever, but most cannot compare to a 4x10 cabinet for punch, low frequency and just plain bottom. I don't just want to hear my bass, I want to feel it.

I have a very old bass that needs restoration. Acoustically it is very quiet and doesn't really project much, but, the sound of the bass is amazing, just not very loud. Any pick up will alter the sound of a bass when it is amplified. My bass sound is very much the same acoustically as it is amplified. Your sound is in your hands, your rig makes YOUR sound louder, it does not make YOUR sound. For the most part if you have a good sound acoustically your rig will make your good sound louder, if you have a bad sound acoustically then your rig will also make your bad sound louder!

I do play with a lower action then a lot of the purist guys, but that does not mean I play with a light touch or softly and let my amp do the work. I play harder then most people think which is why I developed tendon issues years ago, hence the lower action or quit playing the bass.

When I record I never use a pick up. You cannot get a sound out of your bass unless you play it for real. Trust me when I tell you that when you hear guys play acoustically who rely on their amp to make their sound, they have very little acoustic sound at all. That is also why I never practice with an amp on upright or electric bass. Your sound is in your hands not in your rig!

I do love mixing it up a bit. I truly love playing jazz standards, but I also like taking songs from different genres of music and applying them to the bass, specially when they have killer bass lines or other melodic lines that really work well on the bass and are just fun to play. Plus what is wrong with doing songs that millions of people around the world might know and doing them on the bass bringing more attention to the instrument that we all love so much? The beauty of music as that there are no rules, it is for us to explore and discover on our own. Let me tell you, I don't care what anyone says, playing songs like Carry On Wayward Son or Black Dog etc... are really fun to play. That's all I care about, having fun playing the instrument I love and throwing in some songs that people might not ever think to play on a bass, why not?

We all play the way we play whether we like it or not! It just is. I don't like half the stuff I play but I can't help it. I hear the way I hear and I play the way I play, and don't forget so do you!

All those years of growing up playing drums has had a huge impact on my bass playing with all of the two handed technique and crazy rhythmical stuff, it just comes out on it's own. Since I improvise all of my solos when I play they are what they are, good, bad, or otherwise, but that's what makes them perfect. They are real, honest, and spontaneous. That's what jazz is and should always be!

I know I am not everyone's cup of tea, and that's cool with me, just like there are other bassists that are not mine either, but again that's what makes it all perfect. We all have a voice and something to say. There is no greatest who ever lived etc.... You going to tell me that Ray Brown was better then Paul Chambers or that George Mraz is better then Eddie Gomez? I think not. When you get to the level of those guys there is no greatest, there's just flat out great! They all have a voice and something to say, as well as plenty we all can learn from. Thank God there is that diversity out there or bass playing would get pretty damn boring!

Keep listening, keep playing, keep searching, and keep up the low end. Happy Holidays and Happy New Year!.............Brian Bromberg