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Broughton Audio Super Thread

#48,481
labeledbass said:
You can try but I think when you remove the 3rd wire/pin from the xlr, one its not balanced which can pick up interference, and two cannot use the earth lift, which you have done by xlr>ts, or even trs, the messenger doesn't have a balanced input. I definitly get a little more noise than normal through the headphones, normally I would run balanced out to a interface and then into headphones/amp.

Check and make sure your power source is properly grounded, try plugging everything in (including your pedal power(s)) into the same source, strip, conditioner ect. check with another bass and lastly if you can touch metal components, even strings, and hum goes away its definitely a ground loop on one or more devices. You could try moving around and seeing if that changes it, then it would be rf/emf. But flipping the ground switch in this situation, for me, didnt do anything with this specific wire. I do have everything powered up runnimg to the same power strip, and the only thing on this circuit in my house is this main line, but my house is some kind of bad emf cage, kinda was forced to do that
Click to expand...
I had a little more time to mess with it this morning. My home is older and the outlets where I practice are not grounded (they're two-prong outlets but have a three-prong plug on them). So I know that has been an issue with stuff being noisy in the past. Sometimes in the past when I would get hum (especially that 60 cycle hum from my passive jazz), it would get better when I touched something metal or metal on the bass. But in the case of using the XLR to 1/4" out of the SSDI, it doesn't seem to make a difference. All of my pedals are powered by an MXR Iso-Brick. The SSDI is of course mains powered. Everything plugs into a Furman RFI/etc. power strip and then to the wall. And flipping the ground switch on the SSDI made no difference in the noise.

Due to the complicated wiring on my board it's not easy to try a bunch of different pedal order options to see what work best. For the purpose of diagnosing this issue, the best I could do was:

Bass > some stuff > LB 2020S > SSDI 1/4" line out > RFE > Messenger/headphones.

In that configuration, there was no noise (at least no worse than usual). Also, running the RFE and everything else before the SSDI and taking the XLR > 1/4" out of the SSDI straight to the Messenger resulted in no noise.

Also, when I ran:
Bass > some stuff > SSDI XLR to 1/4" cable out > LB 2020S > Messenger/headphones

There was no noise. But when I ran:

Bass > some stuff > SSDI XLR to 1/4" cable out > LB 2020S > RFE > Messenger/headphones

There was noise.

And when I ran:

Bass > some stuff > LB 2020S > SSDI XLR to 1/4" cable out > RFE > Messenger/headphones
. . . or
Bass > some stuff > SSDI XLR to 1/4" cable out > LB 2020S > RFE > Messenger/headphones

The hum was there. I imagine the hum would also be there if I tried any number of pedals using the SSDI's XLR>1/4" cable as an output, though the hum was not there with the 2020S, only when the RFE was back in the equation, post XLR > 1/4" cable.

I pulled the LB 2020S out of the chain to see if that was the issue and just ran the XLR to 1/4" cable straight to the RFE, but the noise was still there. But XLR to 1/4" cable straight to the Messenger, bypassing the RFE, with everything else being the same, there was no noise.

I can't see how there would be an issue with the RFE. It probably just doesn't like the XLR to 1/4" unbalanced cable as an input. If I just use all 1/4" cables all around, everything is fine, no matter the pedal order. I just can't get the volume of the SSDI up very high without making the Messenger fart out. But maybe that's okay.
 
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#48,485
jacoby75 said:
I had a little more time to mess with it this morning. My home is older and the outlets where I practice are not grounded (they're two-prong outlets but have a three-prong plug on them). So I know that has been an issue with stuff being noisy in the past. Sometimes in the past when I would get hum (especially that 60 cycle hum from my passive jazz), it would get better when I touched something metal or metal on the bass. But in the case of using the XLR to 1/4" out of the SSDI, it doesn't seem to make a difference. All of my pedals are powered by an MXR Iso-Brick. The SSDI is of course mains powered. Everything plugs into a Furman RFI/etc. power strip and then to the wall. And flipping the ground switch on the SSDI made no difference in the noise.

Due to the complicated wiring on my board it's not easy to try a bunch of different pedal order options to see what work best. For the purpose of diagnosing this issue, the best I could do was:

Bass > some stuff > LB 2020S > SSDI 1/4" line out > RFE > Messenger/headphones.

In that configuration, there was no noise (at least no worse than usual). Also, running the RFE and everything else before the SSDI and taking the XLR > 1/4" out of the SSDI straight to the Messenger resulted in no noise.

Also, when I ran:
Bass > some stuff > SSDI XLR to 1/4" cable out > LB 2020S > Messenger/headphones

There was no noise. But when I ran:

Bass > some stuff > SSDI XLR to 1/4" cable out > LB 2020S > RFE > Messenger/headphones

There was noise.

And when I ran:

Bass > some stuff > LB 2020S > SSDI XLR to 1/4" cable out > RFE > Messenger/headphones
. . . or
Bass > some stuff > SSDI XLR to 1/4" cable out > LB 2020S > RFE > Messenger/headphones

The hum was there. I imagine the hum would also be there if I tried any number of pedals using the SSDI's XLR>1/4" cable as an output, though the hum was not there with the 2020S, only when the RFE was back in the equation, post XLR > 1/4" cable.

I pulled the LB 2020S out of the chain to see if that was the issue and just ran the XLR to 1/4" cable straight to the RFE, but the noise was still there. But XLR to 1/4" cable straight to the Messenger, bypassing the RFE, with everything else being the same, there was no noise.

I can't see how there would be an issue with the RFE. It probably just doesn't like the XLR to 1/4" unbalanced cable as an input. If I just use all 1/4" cables all around, everything is fine, no matter the pedal order. I just can't get the volume of the SSDI up very high without making the Messenger fart out. But maybe that's okay.
Click to expand...

Honestly, I don't think it's a ground issue, but rather a gain issue.
 
#48,486
jacoby75 said:
I had a little more time to mess with it this morning. My home is older and the outlets where I practice are not grounded (they're two-prong outlets but have a three-prong plug on them). So I know that has been an issue with stuff being noisy in the past. Sometimes in the past when I would get hum (especially that 60 cycle hum from my passive jazz), it would get better when I touched something metal or metal on the bass. But in the case of using the XLR to 1/4" out of the SSDI, it doesn't seem to make a difference. All of my pedals are powered by an MXR Iso-Brick. The SSDI is of course mains powered. Everything plugs into a Furman RFI/etc. power strip and then to the wall. And flipping the ground switch on the SSDI made no difference in the noise.

Due to the complicated wiring on my board it's not easy to try a bunch of different pedal order options to see what work best. For the purpose of diagnosing this issue, the best I could do was:

Bass > some stuff > LB 2020S > SSDI 1/4" line out > RFE > Messenger/headphones.

In that configuration, there was no noise (at least no worse than usual). Also, running the RFE and everything else before the SSDI and taking the XLR > 1/4" out of the SSDI straight to the Messenger resulted in no noise.

Also, when I ran:
Bass > some stuff > SSDI XLR to 1/4" cable out > LB 2020S > Messenger/headphones

There was no noise. But when I ran:

Bass > some stuff > SSDI XLR to 1/4" cable out > LB 2020S > RFE > Messenger/headphones

There was noise.

And when I ran:

Bass > some stuff > LB 2020S > SSDI XLR to 1/4" cable out > RFE > Messenger/headphones
. . . or
Bass > some stuff > SSDI XLR to 1/4" cable out > LB 2020S > RFE > Messenger/headphones

The hum was there. I imagine the hum would also be there if I tried any number of pedals using the SSDI's XLR>1/4" cable as an output, though the hum was not there with the 2020S, only when the RFE was back in the equation, post XLR > 1/4" cable.

I pulled the LB 2020S out of the chain to see if that was the issue and just ran the XLR to 1/4" cable straight to the RFE, but the noise was still there. But XLR to 1/4" cable straight to the Messenger, bypassing the RFE, with everything else being the same, there was no noise.

I can't see how there would be an issue with the RFE. It probably just doesn't like the XLR to 1/4" unbalanced cable as an input. If I just use all 1/4" cables all around, everything is fine, no matter the pedal order. I just can't get the volume of the SSDI up very high without making the Messenger fart out. But maybe that's okay.
Click to expand...

No daisy chains correct? Iso Brick should be, well isolated, but a chain would negate that. The LB may be cleaning it up, what about the LB after the RFE?,
Bass > some stuff > SSDI XLR to 1/4" cable out > RFE > LB 2020S > Messenger/headphones
I would say the RFE is having problems with line level inputs but you state the Line out into the RFE is fine, line out on the SSDI is super high. If it was ALWAYS giving you fits, I'd say the RFE is possibly exploiting a noise you normally don't hear, like something being boosted/EQ'd in, ie the hum, but there is an instance that its quiet. Assuming your voltages on RFE and Messenger are at least 18?, I had noise from a pedal when the voltage wasn't enough, but isolated instance. Aside from heading the issue off before all the gear, at the power, I'd say try to use that LB to clean it up. I've ran a good extension cord to my conditioner/strip before to head off ground loop, its always possible if all the gear on that circuit isn't properly grounded together. That was the entire reason I was so excited to get the new Messenger with phone out, I was getting a ground loop from my PC due to it being plugged into another circuit from my gear, one simple little USB-C cable powering my interface cause a nasty hum, now all my gears isolated from the PC unless I'm recording. But I ran a circuit by itself just for my gear, and that cleaned up all my AC noise, RF and EM is another issue though...

try that, I like diagnosing things like this - hum is annoying especially when it starts messing with triggers on filter pedals, all my octaves were crap before I fixed my hum issue.
 
#48,487
esoxhntr said:
Honestly, I don't think it's a ground issue, but rather a gain issue.
Click to expand...
Probably both.
I’m pretty sure the pedals are not designed to take the heat from the lunchboxes (pure speculation on my part here). They gots grunt. Could be an issue.
jacoby75 said:
My home is older and the outlets where I practice are not grounded (they're two-prong outlets but have a three-prong plug on them). So I know that has been an issue with stuff being noisy in the past.
Click to expand...
Sounds like an issue.
 
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#48,489
Lowendtech said:
Probably both.
I’m pretty sure the pedals are not designed to take the heat from the lunchboxes (pure speculation on my part here). They gots grunt. Could be an issue.
Click to expand...
I've confirmed with Josh, the messenger at least is good to go, with higher voltage and like I've mentioned before the XLR out is 4 times lower in gain/attenuation that the 1/4" output (on the SSDI). I use both SSDI/P15 > Messenger@18v every day with a XLR>TS cable, works fine. SSDI is much hotter though for sure
 
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#48,491
NKBassman said:
Having no ground wire on your outlet is probably not a good place to start. :p
Click to expand...
It definitely doesn't help, to be sure.

esoxhntr said:
Honestly, I don't think it's a ground issue, but rather a gain issue.
Click to expand...

Lowendtech said:
Probably both.
I’m pretty sure the pedals are not designed to take the heat from the lunchboxes (pure speculation on my part here). They gots grunt. Could be an issue. Sounds like an issue.
Click to expand...

labeledbass said:
Yeah, the line out is 4 times the amount of gain that the XLR out, but the line out is stated fine, just havoc on the Messenger input. I would think the line out would be that much worse if it was gain issue right?
Click to expand...
Right. I'm not smart enough to properly and confidently answer this, but I don't think it's a gain issue. I know what you mean, though. That white noise you can get when something really high gain is plugged in until you make the proper adjustments. But I don't think it's that. Because yes, the line out 1/4", which is way hotter than the DI out, is fine. I just can't turn the volume of the SSDI up too much or the Messenger farts out. Running the DI out via XLR > 1/4" converter cable into the Messenger reduces the gain sent to the Messenger, so I'm able to turn the output of the SSDI up way more.

Perhaps it is an impedance thing, although according to the Broughton site, the RFE and Messenger have the same input impedance of 1MOhm. I think for some reason the RFE just doesn't like the combination of my bad wiring in the house and the XLR > 1/4" cable. Although without the RFE, everything is largely silent. And even with the RFE, if I just use a regular 1/4" cable from the SSDI line out, it's fine. I dunno.

labeledbass said:
No daisy chains correct? Iso Brick should be, well isolated, but a chain would negate that.
Click to expand...
Most pedals are isolated by power output and some are isolated by the loop switcher I use. But a few are daisy chained out of one of the 18v outputs of the ISO-Brick. The Solarian, Fliptop, and now RFE. The Messenger is also receiving 18v off of a separate output on the brick.

labeledbass said:
The LB may be cleaning it up, what about the LB after the RFE?,
Bass > some stuff > SSDI XLR to 1/4" cable out > RFE > LB 2020S > Messenger/headphones
Click to expand...
I'll have to try that and report back.

labeledbass said:
I would say the RFE is having problems with line level inputs but you state the Line out into the RFE is fine, line out on the SSDI is super high. If it was ALWAYS giving you fits, I'd say the RFE is possibly exploiting a noise you normally don't hear, like something being boosted/EQ'd in, ie the hum, but there is an instance that its quiet.
Click to expand...
Yes. If I just use 1/4" cables all around, no matter what order I put stuff in, there is no noise. Or, only minimal noise, if any. The noise only comes in when using the XLR > 1/4" cable from the DI out into the RFE or (so far from what else I've tested) the LB.

labeledbass said:
Assuming your voltages on RFE and Messenger are at least 18?,
Click to expand...
Yes.

Thank you for the feedback, everyone.
 
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#48,494
NKBassman said:
Are you using an XLR-to-TS cable, or XLR-to-TRS?
I don't know if it would make a difference, but it should probably be TS.
Click to expand...
I use this, I shortened it though. Only one local shop had and I was inpatient, a TRS would just be unused wire, it would defeat once in the Messenger/RFE, which only has contacts for one ring, waste basically
 

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#48,495
NKBassman said:
Are you using an XLR-to-TS cable, or XLR-to-TRS?
I don't know if it would make a difference, but it should probably be TS.
Click to expand...
Interesting. I had to look that one up because I didn't know the difference, lol. Turns out you CAN teach an old dog new tricks! I'm pretty sure the one I have is an XLR > 1/4" TRS cable. There are two rings below the tip. Perhaps I should try a TS. Thanks.
 
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#48,496
Re: the RFE, additionally, as someone noted above, I think the SSDI is just wicked loud. I bypassed the Messenger and went from the SSDI to the RFE and then to a USB interface I have. Even with the pad engaged on the interface and the trim all of the way down, I wasn't able to get the SSDI up much past 10:00 before it made that thing fart out. It's a loud sucker. Loud in all the right places, that is.
 
#48,498
gcg said:
A favour, before I bug Josh with an email: has anyone confirmed if the ParaEQ (https://www.broughtonaudio.com/product-page/parametric-equalizer) can go above 9V? My understanding is that some of the earlier designs are able to operate at higher voltages despite 9V being specified on the pedal and in the materials. I'm wondering if this is one of them.

Apologies for asking the perennial voltage question!
Click to expand...
@DirtyDuke had one a bit ago, he may be able to answer, I've always wanted one
 
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#48,499
jacoby75 said:
Interesting. I had to look that one up because I didn't know the difference, lol. Turns out you CAN teach an old dog new tricks! I'm pretty sure the one I have is an XLR > 1/4" TRS cable. There are two rings below the tip. Perhaps I should try a TS. Thanks.
Click to expand...
I don't know for sure that this will help, but maybe? Someone else can please confirm, and I'd be happy to be proved wrong.
 
#48,500
NKBassman said:
I don't know for sure that this will help, but maybe? Someone else can please confirm, and I'd be happy to be proved wrong.
Click to expand...
the xtra wire in the XLR is considered the "ring", sleeve is on bottom and tip, is well the tip. TS only has a sleeve and tip. XLR/TRS = positive/negative/ground, TS = positive(hot)/ground. Take a look at the Studio Boost inside photo of the jacks, the "ring" from the TRS cable simply wouldn't connect to anything, so its like it never existed in the wire from the start. Not sure if that proves anything either way, but that's how I've learned it to be, tonz go from A - B
 

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