Brubaker Brute Club

[drpepper]

I thought it might have been a little too good to be true, but at $450 new it was worth a punt.

I'm kind of scratching my head on this one. "Worth a punt?" I'd assume you bought a Brubaker Brute because you wanted a Brubaker Brute. $450 is a typical used price. This one is supposed to be new. So, what's the problem?

If the basis of your purchase was really that this is a special one, made out of ash, you probably should have done some checking before buying.

You can always tell yourself it's ash if you want to. Hell, you can tell other people it's ash.

 

[zulujack]

The problem is basswood is cheap and nasty. Swamp ash is the real thing. At the price it looked like a good deal. Now it looks like false advertising.

 

[a2zbassman]

The problem is basswood is cheap and nasty. Swamp ash is the real thing. At the price it looked like a good deal. Now it looks like false advertising.

As Brad asked earlier, you got link for this eBay posting? (you should be able to dig one up from your "My ebay >> items won" section)

I, and I think a couple others following this, would be interested in seeing that.

I regularly check ebay for new Brutes and don't remember seeing this item (although if it's a 4 string I don't pay as close attention).

Also, I would never, ever, utter the words "cheap and nasty", in regards to the sound or feel of either of my Brute's. (just the biased opinion of a very happy Brute owner!)

 

[Billy Low]

The problem is basswood is cheap and nasty. Swamp ash is the real thing.

Whoa! U may wanna slow down with that one!!!

Yes, basswood is less expensive than many of the other woods, but as far as tone is concerned, there is absolutely NOTHING wrong with basswood! Do a lil' more research! The tonal properties are similar to alder. You would be hard pressed to give someone a basswood bodied instrument and they would be able to identify it as such based on tone. Yes, it is softer than alder or ash, so it well dent easier if dropped or bumped aggressively against a hard surface. On a painted instrument, I would have absolutely NO PROBLEM with a basswood instrument, as long as it is priced accordingly.

 

[JayCY]

The Brute is definitely a steal for the price. I think Kevin should mark up the price instead of discontinuing the model. Guys, I'm thinking of putting in some upgrades for my Brute. What pickups can make it sound more fuller and with more growl?

 

[DaveTomasi]

Hey Roy,

How are you liking the upgrade?

I picked up my Brute from Brubaker today, upgraded to Bartolini 59J pickups and 4.6 NTMB 3 band eq preamp.

I have yet to get it home to check things out, but so far so good.

 

[DaveTomasi]

Since there are no ash Brutes that I know of for comparison, I can only say that I've always loved the sound of the Brute even un-amplified (which is my first test for any bass in which I am interested). I guess I love the "cheap and nasty" sound.

The problem is basswood is cheap and nasty. Swamp ash is the real thing. At the price it looked like a good deal. Now it looks like false advertising.

 

[Brad Johnson]

Since there are no ash Brutes that I know of for comparison, I can only say that I've always loved the sound of the Brute even un-amplified (which is my first test for any bass in which I am interested). I guess I love the "cheap and nasty" sound.

I get told on a fairly regular basis that people don't play basses unamplified. Nice to meet a fellow weirdo.

 

[Brad Johnson]

The problem is basswood is cheap and nasty. Swamp ash is the real thing. At the price it looked like a good deal. Now it looks like false advertising.

This conclusion is based on what?

Any bass is the sum of it's parts. Some people give wood all the credit, some people apparently give it all of the blame.

This bass isn't even solid wood and it's neither cheap nor nasty

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[drpepper]

The problem is basswood is cheap and nasty. Swamp ash is the real thing. At the price it looked like a good deal. Now it looks like false advertising.

So...um...I guess you don't want a club number then?

 

[drpepper]

Hey Roy,

How are you liking the upgrade?

Dave, thanks still for the standing offer to check yours out before committing. I just decided to go with whatever Kevin's recommendation was.

Do you have the same preamp as well?

Anyway, I've really just been playing through headphones so far. While the mid controls are interesting, you can only tell so much without a real-world situation. The overall sound seems smooth and tight. I've found myself liking the bass bumped a tab, treble flat and high mid bumped. Grind comes in nicely with just a little digging.

First band practice with it is tomorrow, so I'm looking forward to that.

 

[drpepper]

The Brute is definitely a steal for the price. I think Kevin should mark up the price instead of discontinuing the model. Guys, I'm thinking of putting in some upgrades for my Brute. What pickups can make it sound more fuller and with more growl?

This may not help you so much in terms of anything comparative on "fullness" or "growl," but I told Kevin that without trying for a highly specific tonal goal, I wanted to be able to realize more of the potential (natural sound) of the Brute, and his recommendation was Bartolini 59J pickups and Bartolini 4.6 NTMB 3 band preamp. This has a switchable (push/pull) hi/low mid center - I believe 250 or 800 Hz. I'm no expert, but I believe that's where a lot ability to dial in/out fullness and grind is going to come from.

I'm not crazy about all of the tone adjectives that get thrown around, but we are talking about tone online (even sound clips could fully tell you what you need to know).

As I said in my post above, Kevin Walker was there when I picked up my bass. He had his Brute there and I talked to him a little bit about it. He tested mine out and while he said it was nice, I got the impression that he's perfectly happy with the stock electronics. FWIW, he described the Bartolini setup as more vintage, dirty and edgy sounding.

And one thing I found to be high praise, he said he doesn't just use the Brute as a back-up held in reserve, but he chooses to use it sometimes over his other Brubakers depending on the situation, largely for neck feel if I was understanding correctly.

This is one of his Brubakers - If this came before the Brute, it looks like what it was modeled after. He was getting a second bridge pickup added.

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[Brad Johnson]

Kevin Walker's bass is an example of a pickguard model bass (NBP) that preceeded the Brutes. That is directly where Brutes came from. Designing with a pickguard allowed for top mount vs. rear cavity of all controls, which saves time and helps keep the cost down.

I agree on Kevin's take on the stock electronics, they're surprisingly aggressive in the mix, especially the MJX with Musicman style bridge pickup. From the beginning people were swapping out electronics I'm guessing because many thought an upgrade is better. Definitely different.


Of course Kevin's bass was handmade by Kevin Brubaker so it cost a tad more than a Brute. I've heard Kevin W's bass with the second bridge J pickup (three total), pretty interesting.

 

[Brad Johnson]

Dave, thanks still for the standing offer to check yours out before committing. I just decided to go with whatever Kevin's recommendation was.

Do you have the same preamp as well?

Anyway, I've really just been playing through headphones so far. While the mid controls are interesting, you can only tell so much without a real-world situation. The overall sound seems smooth and tight. I've found myself liking the bass bumped a tab, treble flat and high mid bumped. Grind comes in nicely with just a little digging.

First band practice with it is tomorrow, so I'm looking forward to that.

This may be redundant but I'll offer it anyway, it's the same advice I give for just about any bass:

Before you do any serious tweaking, make sure you bring your gains up on your amp and if possible, start with the amp and the bass flat. That seems to bring everything out of the instrument and then if you need to do a tweak it'll likely be minor.

And be careful with that lower mid boost... at gig volume you can blow stuff up with it.

 

[drpepper]

This may be redundant but I'll offer it anyway, it's the same advice I give for just about any bass:

Before you do any serious tweaking, make sure you bring your gains up on your amp and if possible, start with the amp and the bass flat. That seems to bring everything out of the instrument and then if you need to do a tweak it'll likely be minor.

And be careful with that lower mid boost... at gig volume you can blow stuff up with it.

Not redundant at all, Brad. I'm glad to hear and take your advice.

In fact, I'll ask for some more. What's your belief on the volume on the bass while tweaking and playing? I've heard some (actually the vast majority on a thread about it) say that should be run full open. Do you agree with that?

It didn't make complete logical sense - what's the point of volume on the bass then?

 

[Brad Johnson]

Not redundant at all, Brad. I'm glad to hear and take your advice.

In fact, I'll ask for some more. What's your belief on the volume on the bass while tweaking and playing? I've heard some (actually the vast majority on a thread about it) say that should be run full open. Do you agree with that?

It didn't make complete logical sense - what's the point of volume on the bass then?

IME here's where that comes from: on passive basses, it's quite common to have a noticeable tonal difference between the volume wide open and turned down to whatever degree. Typically there's less high end when you roll off the volume. I'm pretty sure I've experienced the same thing with some active basses. Since the good old days, newer preamps didn't have the same tendency.

I just got in the habit of presenting the hottest signal I was going to use sent to the input of the amp. It's a signal to noise ratio thing among other things. I also don't use active or padded when there's a choice unless the bass I'm using is overdriving the passive input (pretty easy to hear). What I started experimenting with a couple of decades ago (wow I feel old) was controlling my volume with my hands vs. the volume pot. It can take time to get really comfortable with that but when you do...




It's hard to do initially but once you get it down it's a great tool IMO. What this gets me is pretty ridiculous dynamic range at my fingertips on a regular basis with a wide range of instruments. Notes that can hit extremely hard yet remain clean when I want them to. Then back to a whisper without touching anything but the strings. Having the dynamics of a kick drum live is a hoot. You have a much wider dynamic range at your beck and call than simply playing at more or less one strength and occassionally tweaking the bass' volume control.

Not saying that that is necessarily bad either. There are some pretty cool effects you can get by working the volume control like a volume pedal.

With the Bart NTMB preamp using Bart pickups, I tend to run the internal gain pot fairly high but usually not maxed. With other pickups it's a matter of matching up to them... still pretty easy to do.

 

[zulujack]

So...um...I guess you don't want a club number then?

I'm sure the Brubaker is a fine bass regardless of the body wood. I was not specifically looking for a Brubaker, just a bass with ash body and maple fretboard, preferably with 19mm spacing, when I found this eBay listing for a bass with exactly those attributes. I watched the item and it was relisted after not selling the first time. I made the seller an offer for less than the BIN and he accepted. At this point I was still (perhaps mistakenly) believing that it has an Ash body. The bass in the listing did not look like Ash to me, so I emailed the seller after paying for it and he told me it was specially made for an artist with an endorsement. I have not actually received it as yet, so cannot say that it is BS or not, but I'm thinking its highly likely. Gotta love eBay sometimes! I'm sure it sounds fine and at the price it's probably a good thing, but basswood is just something I have always associated with cheap squiers, etc, so it is not typically a body wood I put at the top of the list. TBH I'll probably hang on to it any way if it sounds good, but I might just get it repainted in solid colour, and hotrod it a bit. If I finally get it I'll join the club.

eBay listing

http://cgi.ebay.com.au/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=130393525597

 

[DaveTomasi]

From the photos, this looks exactly like a Mediterranean Brute with the customary basswood body. I'm sure that Brad can verify that no Brute made so far has an ash body. You can also email Kevin Brubaker himself at [email protected]. Kevin is always quick to respond and will answer any questions that you may have. I'd say now that you are getting the bass, give it a shot. You may or may not dig it. Player's preferences vary as do the players themselves. However, provided the bass arrives in the condition specified by Brubaker, I can guarantee that the Brute is no cheap Squier.

I'm sure the Brubaker is a fine bass regardless of the body wood. I was not specifically looking for a Brubaker, just a bass with ash body and maple fretboard, preferably with 19mm spacing, when I found this eBay listing for a bass with exactly those attributes. I watched the item and it was relisted after not selling the first time. I made the seller an offer for less than the BIN and he accepted. At this point I was still (perhaps mistakenly) believing that it has an Ash body. The bass in the listing did not look like Ash to me, so I emailed the seller after paying for it and he told me it was specially made for an artist with an endorsement. I have not actually received it as yet, so cannot say that it is BS or not, but I'm thinking its highly likely. Gotta love eBay sometimes! I'm sure it sounds fine and at the price it's probably a good thing, but basswood is just something I have always associated with cheap squiers, etc, so it is not typically a body wood I put at the top of the list. TBH I'll probably hang on to it any way if it sounds good, but I might just get it repainted in solid colour, and hotrod it a bit. If I finally get it I'll join the club.

eBay listing

http://cgi.ebay.com.au/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=130393525597

 

[DaveTomasi]

I have the Bart pre-amp and pickups, but my configuration (MJX) is different from yours. My midrange is fixed, but I do have a switch to toggle the MM pickup between series and parallel. At least I think that is what Kevin told me. All I can say is that I love the subtle differences the Barts give me. I usually run everything flat out using the blend to give me what I want. One day, I'll get that volume control via the hands thing down (Thanks Brad).

Dave, thanks still for the standing offer to check yours out before committing. I just decided to go with whatever Kevin's recommendation was.

Do you have the same preamp as well?

Anyway, I've really just been playing through headphones so far. While the mid controls are interesting, you can only tell so much without a real-world situation. The overall sound seems smooth and tight. I've found myself liking the bass bumped a tab, treble flat and high mid bumped. Grind comes in nicely with just a little digging.

First band practice with it is tomorrow, so I'm looking forward to that.

 

[Brad Johnson]

I have the Bart pre-amp and pickups, but my configuration (MJX) is different from yours. My midrange is fixed, but I do have a switch to toggle the MM pickup between series and parallel. At least I think that is what Kevin told me. All I can say is that I love the subtle differences the Barts give me. I usually run everything flat out using the blend to give me what I want. One day, I'll get that volume control via the hands thing down (Thanks Brad).

Hey Dave, have you tried pulling your midrange control up?

Let me know. You might be in for a nice surprise.