Brutal open Acoustic jam experience

[Honch]

Aaah, Mr Martin Elliott and his unique ash bodied Wal 5 String bass. Top player and top bloke. If it's good enough for Michael Nyman...

He taught Colin Edwin of Porcupine Tree to play bass. They lived close to each other, when Colin was a young fellow. Now, that's quite a deal to put a lesson deal payment, he said to Colin before he started:

"I'll give you lessons for free provided that you really learn them to a tee. The first time you show up without doing your homework properly you will have to play a full fee, or a fine... if you take it as that".

I kinda like that, for some strange reason. The times he had to pay was zilch, zero, nada.

 

[Steadfast]

See what happens when you try to take your electric bass to a bluegrass jam.....

...actually---I have been requested to bring my sax repeatedly to these jams but I really find it boring. I can make my solos fit whatever style they are playing. But in the end it all is about the same 3 to 4 chords over and over.

 

[Honch]

"To top it off, there were some really, really bad players and singers that got up after us. Yikes."

LOL! That's the beauty of open mic. It's like karaoke. It allows really bad players to get up and play really badly. It's one of the few outlets available to them.

That's the same thing what I feel about open mic jams, or open blues jams. ) 9 times out of 10, one haven't heard of the players coming from an established regional or local band, and when asking them what band they play in, there's always the smug smile one their faces when they go "none", and when they enter stage and starts to play, one figures out why. However, singer/songwriter things are mostly without any band or accompaniment any way. They're solo artists. But the just stay on that stage for ages, and you starts to wonder why they never gets anywhere, year after year they show up. While some of the realy young younger cats have started out on such jams, they move on eventually. I find one of our local jam joints some kind of ... can't help this but... having a stage for the lesser abled to be able to try their wings. There should be some places for these ones to. I call them "JamHall". It's a reference to a Swedish phenomenon called "SamHall". A state owned company for giving those with disabilities and Downs syndromes some simple and meaningful day jobs. Samhall means community in Swedish. When I refer these particular open mic jams, as well as certain blues jams as "JamHall" I usually gets scolded for being too rude, bigot, and mean. So there really must exist some musical equivalence to Samhall. That's those open mics and jams.

Why I have to show up, and joing them beats me though.

 

[RustyAxe]

I go to a local acoustic open mic (not a "jam") almost weekly. Although I'm primarily an acoustic performer (guitar and vocals), and play many solo gigs in addition to my country band projects, I usually bring an electric bass (my beater, Squier Jag) and a small amp, since no one else does. Most people understand that a bass guitar (of any ilk) needs amplification. Even an upright needs reinforcement in a large band. Don't believe that you aren't welcome at an acoustic jam ... most players would be thrilled if you could back them up with a good bass line, and no one would care if you play an electric bass. I've had nights where I never got off the stage and played for nearly every performer. It's good practice ... playing many different genres, transposing familiar songs on the fly, adapting to mistakes by others and staying on course (and getting them back on course).

I usually play acoustic bass guitars for my singer/songwriter gigs, because that's the tone I want. But when I don't know what the stage conditions will be and have no control over EQ and such, I bring my electric.

 

[MojoPenguin]

Seems like the owners of the place don't care not your friend. It's strange to me that you would not care for a low registry instrument in a jam, Bass keyboard, double bass or otherwise but what do I know.

 

[neddyrow]

good thing it wasn't a bluegrass jam and you brought a BG!

here's a similar thread over on the DB side

What is it with Bluegrass players?

 

[JGbassman]

I use to play in a celtic band and of course weekly Irish sessions. I was playing banjo, CBOM, and guitar at the session and once and awhile I would bring my Alembic and a GK200MB. It went down fine with the stuffy types if you're somewhat sympathetic in your playing. So, bring an amp. Of course you now have a great excuse to obtain and learn UB.

My car is a Prius. They don't play well with an upright lol. I thought about getting an electric upright at one point, but it would be no different than my fretless in principal, and while visually cool, it wouldn't fit what I'm doing with him. I'm playing a lot of melody lines (for instance, I cover the intro slide guitar work in the song Sister Golden Hair by America, and many other parts like that in songs) so an upright would not fit well.

 

[RyanKW]

Yea, I should have been clued in when it was billed as "acoustic".
...........

Sorry for the rant, this just really bugged me tonight. I guess I will pay more attention to the word "acoustic" next time.

I host an open mic somewhat like this, and I get complimented often for being much more inclusive and better at operating sound than a lot of hosts around the Seattle area. I've tried some others with varying results. Since I'm a bass player, primarily, I also either have a bass amp there, or I have my pedalboard running into the PA with amp modeling and you can certainly hear it through the monitor. Your experience just sounds like a poopy open mic to me.

 

[Deleted member 165050]

Yea, I should have been clued in when it was billed as "acoustic".

I have a good friend that I've known for years, in fact he was the guitarist in my first band. He has had his share of self induced bad knocks, and struggles with alcoholism. He is on disability, and all he really has left in his life is his music. He has been sober for many months now, and honestly I'm very proud of him. I get together with him about once a week lately, where we are working up some songs, him on acoustic guitar, me on fretless bass. He still has chops and can sing, but it's nothing serious, and I'm really doing this to give him something to live for and stay sober. We have talked about working enough material up to do a show, I'm super busy, but it if keeps him sober, I'll put the time in for him.

Now that you know the background, tonight he invited me to a jam, where we would get up and do a few songs. I agree, and meet him at the bar the jam is being held. I get there before him and have the fretless with me. I notice a few mics, a monitor, and the acoustic guitars are going direct. Hmm.

Long story short, the set up is not equipped to run an electric bass, and honestly I don't think they cared. I tried running direct, but they wouldn't put me in the monitor, which was overpoweringly loud with guitar and vox, so I had no way to hear myself play. I could have fudged it on a fretted, but not on a fretless. I tried playing about half a song, but I bowed out and took a seat. My friend played about four songs before he was done.

I felt bad leaving the stage, but with the organizer not wanting to work with me and playing a fretless, where I absolutely have to hear the notes, it was just left a bad taste in my mouth. It was obvious they weren't set up to have electric instruments, or just didn't want them. It was a very folky, bob Dylan feel for the rest of the hour I stayed. To top it off, there were some really, really bad players and singers that got up after us. Yikes.

My friend wants to go back next week (he is a semi-regular there I guess). And said he will bring a little amp for me to play through. I reluctantly agreed, forcing a smile.

My main issue is I felt because I was not playing an acoustic guitar, I wasn't really welcome. Im not a Prima Donna by any means, but this jam was well beneath my pay grade, if you will. The fretless bass and acoustic guitar play very well with each other, and over hundreds of acoustic shows I've played over the years, those two instruments alway fit together. I didn't feel there was any need for the underlying attitude.

I will do this for my friend next week, but it's going to be brutal. I've never been to a jam where I got the feeling that other instruments weren't welcome, but I sure did tonight.

Sorry for the rant, this just really bugged me tonight. I guess I will pay more attention to the word "acoustic" next time.

If their acoustic guitars were plugged in and amplified, it weren't acoustic. Presumably if you'd brought along an acoustic fretless bass with a pickup the organiser would have welcomed you and put you through the monitors with no argument as you would have fulfilled his definition of "acoustic".

 

[tlite]

Just to chime in to mention you're a good friend to your buddy, and that's huge. Seriously- don't take that lightly how much that matters.

And c'mon, how offensive is a mellow fretless electric bass at an open jam, even if it's mostly acoustic? Sounds like the FOH folks were just being snarky. When people hear how it fits in the mix, the crowd will dig it. Even more so once they get to hear something other than 'Brown Eyed Girl'.

 

[JGbassman]

Yep, and if you happen to be a more accomplished player, you ought to provide support, encouragement and inspiration. Not ridicule or disdain. This is one of the things an open mic is for... new or unlearned musicians to cut their teeth and look for feedback from listeners or other musicians.

It's not a competition folks.

No one said anything about ridiculing or making fun of other players. I would like to think we are all adult enough not to cause an issue, and that would be common sense. I know the people I work with aren't that way, and I certainly would never make fun of another player, especially at an open jam. But some of it does cause an involuntary wince every now and then.

 

[JGbassman]

"To top it off, there were some really, really bad players and singers that got up after us. Yikes."

LOL! That's the beauty of open mic. It's like karaoke. It allows really bad players to get up and play really badly. It's one of the few outlets available to them.

That is the truth. Many of these players don't have the time or ability to play in a band, so these jams are their only outlet for live music. If they have passion and are giving it their all, then more power to them. If I'm the house bassist and playing behind them I have fun and do what I can to give them the best experience.

I have a friend that had a stroke, and struggles playing now. He was a very accomplished player at one point. So you never know the story behind the scene

 

[Passinwind]

My car is a Prius. They don't play well with an upright lol. I thought about getting an electric upright at one point, but it would be no different than my fretless in principal, and while visually cool, it wouldn't fit what I'm doing with him. I'm playing a lot of melody lines (for instance, I cover the intro slide guitar work in the song Sister Golden Hair by America, and many other parts like that in songs) so an upright would not fit well.

Bowed EUB or AUB is awesome for melodic lines. I've found my EUB to be much more accepted at newgrass jams than BG, FWIW. But when I play an actual doghouse (i.e. someone else's) it's a whole different level. But there are definitely many situations where BG is going to work better, for sure.

 

[Mushroo]

Without criticizing or defending any of the parties involved, let me just say: one way to participate in jams that aren't set up for bass is to learn some chords on the acoustic guitar and/or how to sing backing vocals. I'm neither the world's greatest guitarist nor singer, but my understanding of these events is that they are social and fun. Maybe I don't get to show off my cool Jaco licks, but at least I am up on stage with my buddies, belting out the chorus.

Electric bassists are a funny breed. We argue endlessly about which sounds better: J vs P, active vs passive, maple vs rosewood, active vs passive. But then another musician says, "I prefer the sound of acoustic bass" and suddenly we change our tune: "my Alembic sounds just like an upright, totally appropriate for the genre, I bet you can't even tell the difference."

 

[Ric5]

Yea, I should have been clued in when it was billed as "acoustic".

I have a good friend that I've known for years, in fact he was the guitarist in my first band. He has had his share of self induced bad knocks, and struggles with alcoholism. He is on disability, and all he really has left in his life is his music. He has been sober for many months now, and honestly I'm very proud of him. I get together with him about once a week lately, where we are working up some songs, him on acoustic guitar, me on fretless bass. He still has chops and can sing, but it's nothing serious, and I'm really doing this to give him something to live for and stay sober. We have talked about working enough material up to do a show, I'm super busy, but it if keeps him sober, I'll put the time in for him.

Now that you know the background, tonight he invited me to a jam, where we would get up and do a few songs. I agree, and meet him at the bar the jam is being held. I get there before him and have the fretless with me. I notice a few mics, a monitor, and the acoustic guitars are going direct. Hmm.

Long story short, the set up is not equipped to run an electric bass, and honestly I don't think they cared. I tried running direct, but they wouldn't put me in the monitor, which was overpoweringly loud with guitar and vox, so I had no way to hear myself play. I could have fudged it on a fretted, but not on a fretless. I tried playing about half a song, but I bowed out and took a seat. My friend played about four songs before he was done.

I felt bad leaving the stage, but with the organizer not wanting to work with me and playing a fretless, where I absolutely have to hear the notes, it was just left a bad taste in my mouth. It was obvious they weren't set up to have electric instruments, or just didn't want them. It was a very folky, bob Dylan feel for the rest of the hour I stayed. To top it off, there were some really, really bad players and singers that got up after us. Yikes.

My friend wants to go back next week (he is a semi-regular there I guess). And said he will bring a little amp for me to play through. I reluctantly agreed, forcing a smile.

My main issue is I felt because I was not playing an acoustic guitar, I wasn't really welcome. Im not a Prima Donna by any means, but this jam was well beneath my pay grade, if you will. The fretless bass and acoustic guitar play very well with each other, and over hundreds of acoustic shows I've played over the years, those two instruments alway fit together. I didn't feel there was any need for the underlying attitude.

I will do this for my friend next week, but it's going to be brutal. I've never been to a jam where I got the feeling that other instruments weren't welcome, but I sure did tonight.

Sorry for the rant, this just really bugged me tonight. I guess I will pay more attention to the word "acoustic" next time.

It sucks when you get the soundman who could care less

 

[turf3]

The mistake was in assuming that a bass amp would be provided at an acoustic open mic.

If you had brought your own small amp probably none of this would have happened.

For myself, if I wanted to bring a bass guitar to an acoustic event (and I have done so, on occasion) I would bring an amp. If for some strange reason the organizers of an acoustic jam did provide a bass amp, then I would just leave mine in the car.

 

[buldog5151bass]

Different places are set up for different things - I am guessing 95% of the performers got up with an acoustic guitar and nothing else.

Bring an amp, and have some fun.

 

[Double E]

If their acoustic guitars were plugged in and amplified, it weren't acoustic. Presumably if you'd brought along an acoustic fretless bass with a pickup the organiser would have welcomed you and put you through the monitors with no argument as you would have fulfilled his definition of "acoustic".

Of course its acoustic, just cuz they're mic'ed or plugged in doesn't matter. It's not the same as using solid body electrics.

The same concerns about the PA may have arisen if he had an ABG, the concern is the bass frequencies overpowering the system. Don't assume people are stupid it makes you look bad.

 

[devnulljp]

Buy a doghouse?

 

[Steadfast]

Without criticizing or defending any of the parties involved, let me just say: one way to participate in jams that aren't set up for bass is to learn some chords on the acoustic guitar and/or how to sing backing vocals. I'm neither the world's greatest guitarist nor singer, but my understanding of these events is that they are social and fun. Maybe I don't get to show off my cool Jaco licks, but at least I am up on stage with my buddies, belting out the chorus.

Electric bassists are a funny breed. We argue endlessly about which sounds better: J vs P, active vs passive, maple vs rosewood, active vs passive. But then another musician says, "I prefer the sound of acoustic bass" and suddenly we change our tune: "my Alembic sounds just like an upright, totally appropriate for the genre, I bet you can't even tell the difference."

Dude...... all of the above is useless without a tort pick guard.