Enjoy the benefits of a premium membership!
Upgrade Account
-
TalkBass has been independent since 1998. Add your voice.
Create a free account to reply to discussions, view embedded media, and browse with fewer display ads.
Join free Log in
Want zero display ads or expanded classifieds tools? Compare plans.
Build 4 - headless fretless chambered 6 string
- Thread starter reverendrally
- Start date
Ok, so after a lot of thinking last night, I reckon I'm heading towards a Selmer style guitar with a hogged out body. I was lying in bed last night and came up with...
1. A high access neck solution
2. A neck joint that allows for raising and lowering action
3. A neck angle adjustment
4. A tailpiece solution
5. Crazy ideas re bracing the back.
I'll draw some rough pics up soon and post them. All of them involve some metalwork and welding, but what the heck, I've spent the last 12 months working on my car.
On another subject, I was doing some running around today and went past my favorite timber haunt...
I couldn't resist. I went in looking at NG Mahogany, but then I discovered they have Walnut and Cherry. I got prices for all of them, but really I think the Mahogany is what I should aim for. I've got lots of Kauri pine here, but I'm concerned getting as thick as I'd like will be painful and will end up looking a bit ugly. It's also very soft and ding a bit too easily. But who knows, I may change my mind again yet.
1. A high access neck solution
2. A neck joint that allows for raising and lowering action
3. A neck angle adjustment
4. A tailpiece solution
5. Crazy ideas re bracing the back.
I'll draw some rough pics up soon and post them. All of them involve some metalwork and welding, but what the heck, I've spent the last 12 months working on my car.
On another subject, I was doing some running around today and went past my favorite timber haunt...
I couldn't resist. I went in looking at NG Mahogany, but then I discovered they have Walnut and Cherry. I got prices for all of them, but really I think the Mahogany is what I should aim for. I've got lots of Kauri pine here, but I'm concerned getting as thick as I'd like will be painful and will end up looking a bit ugly. It's also very soft and ding a bit too easily. But who knows, I may change my mind again yet.
Spent the first half of this week away on a conference with my wife. I like to draw guitar bits in conferences. So I started trying to figure out what to do with my neck joint.
Oh, BTW I'm building a Selmer style guitar after all. I like the Forster style archtop, but that will come later... and it'll be wilder.
So I started drawing up the idea I mentioned last time...
I liked the idea, but I had 2 serious issues...
1. The design above would need a rectangular/square tube, plus a square post to put in it. I'd need to have parts machined and I knew that would be costly.
2. I was concerned the back angle adjustment would compromise the overall rigidity of the structure.
So, instead of using one rectangular/square tube I came up with a design using 2 round tubes. Stronger, MUCH more adjustable and sturdier from side to side. I looked precision tube at a local supplier and they said the tubes sleeved well. So after a phonecall and visit I came home with some tube for $25 and I'm ready to make something. All I needed to do was draw it up properly.
Here's my design...
On the top you can see the neck. The two posts come up through the floating top of the guitar. Where they screw on is roughly the same place as the 20th fret. What the pic doesn't show is how far the down the body this will be. It also doesn't show how it interacts with the cutaway. The neck is a LONG way off the body, but that's in an effort to give me more access to the upper positions.
Oh, BTW I'm building a Selmer style guitar after all. I like the Forster style archtop, but that will come later... and it'll be wilder.
So I started drawing up the idea I mentioned last time...
I liked the idea, but I had 2 serious issues...
1. The design above would need a rectangular/square tube, plus a square post to put in it. I'd need to have parts machined and I knew that would be costly.
2. I was concerned the back angle adjustment would compromise the overall rigidity of the structure.
So, instead of using one rectangular/square tube I came up with a design using 2 round tubes. Stronger, MUCH more adjustable and sturdier from side to side. I looked precision tube at a local supplier and they said the tubes sleeved well. So after a phonecall and visit I came home with some tube for $25 and I'm ready to make something. All I needed to do was draw it up properly.
Here's my design...
On the top you can see the neck. The two posts come up through the floating top of the guitar. Where they screw on is roughly the same place as the 20th fret. What the pic doesn't show is how far the down the body this will be. It also doesn't show how it interacts with the cutaway. The neck is a LONG way off the body, but that's in an effort to give me more access to the upper positions.
- Apr 18, 2008
- 16,019
- 1
- 31,734
- Disclosures
- I'm highly opinionated and extremely self-assured
Ok, so I've been asking on an acoustic luthiers forum and I've been given these measurements for a Selmer style guitar...
So, after measuring up my top, I've got room to go 1.3 times the size of a Favino. That being the case, the measurements are as follows...
Length; 24", 610mm
Upper bout; 15.3", 389mm
Waist; 13.65", 347mm
Lower bout; 21.45", 545mm
To put this in perspective, the body is 150mm (6") wider than the OOO acoustic I usually play these days.
I've been talking to @smithcreek and he thinks 2deg is enough neck angle. This could be interesting, because the neck should be some distance off the body. Hmm...
So, after measuring up my top, I've got room to go 1.3 times the size of a Favino. That being the case, the measurements are as follows...
Length; 24", 610mm
Upper bout; 15.3", 389mm
Waist; 13.65", 347mm
Lower bout; 21.45", 545mm
To put this in perspective, the body is 150mm (6") wider than the OOO acoustic I usually play these days.
I've been talking to @smithcreek and he thinks 2deg is enough neck angle. This could be interesting, because the neck should be some distance off the body. Hmm...
If you can post up a profile view of the basic geometry that would help a lot. As I said in our PMs, applying the TLAR rule (that looks about right), the total break angle over the bridge of 7 degrees seems appropriate for what is essentially a flat top instrument. One thing to keep in mind is you don't want the angle on the tail side to be too much steeper than the neck side or you will have trouble keeping a floating bridge from tipping. The higher the neck is up off the body the higher the bridge will need to be and the steeper the angle on the tail side.
I don't have basic geometry yet really. So, whatever you think will work is what I'll design into the bass.
I had minor surgery yesterday. So I had a lot of time just thinking about things lying in bed, which is odd for me. Spent most of the night thinking about this bass. Occurred to me that I could built and adjustable height tailpiece mount in the same vein as the neck mount. Course I might be over thinking things... Dang, I just gotta build this thing and be done with it!
Cheers, there was a complication actually. The surgeon was expecting to remove a small lump under skin on my neck. Instead, the lump was under the muscle. So I'm a bit more stiff and sore than expected. Been a big weekend too, but I should be ok.
I went through my parts draw the other day. I've now got enough bits to build 2 6 strings. So I'm going to do 2 radically different structured 6 string basses.
One in the "three planks" (TM) direction and another in a different vain with a HUGE hollowbody like I'd originally planned. I think the hollow body will end up being a fretted multiscale instrument. The Barts I first bought will end up on the multiscale instrument, the custom Nordies will go in the three planks. I really want to use tape wounds on the fretless. I've emailed LaBella and they advised me thus about my ABM string anchor...
This will mean some different string anchors. I've got some ideas, re lockdowns and the like so I'll think through that. Whatever it is will be simple, repeatable and cheapish. I don't own a mill or similar and I want something easily fixed if parts wear out in the future.
Obviously, I have a bit more destructive development to do on the guitar prototype, but I've been playing it a fair bit and it's actually quite nice to play and quite earthy sounding.
Also, this isn't really bass no.4 anymore. I'll edit to whatever I'm up to. I think it's #12.
One in the "three planks" (TM) direction and another in a different vain with a HUGE hollowbody like I'd originally planned. I think the hollow body will end up being a fretted multiscale instrument. The Barts I first bought will end up on the multiscale instrument, the custom Nordies will go in the three planks. I really want to use tape wounds on the fretless. I've emailed LaBella and they advised me thus about my ABM string anchor...
This will mean some different string anchors. I've got some ideas, re lockdowns and the like so I'll think through that. Whatever it is will be simple, repeatable and cheapish. I don't own a mill or similar and I want something easily fixed if parts wear out in the future.
Obviously, I have a bit more destructive development to do on the guitar prototype, but I've been playing it a fair bit and it's actually quite nice to play and quite earthy sounding.
Also, this isn't really bass no.4 anymore. I'll edit to whatever I'm up to. I think it's #12.
Well it's time to get designing. I'm still trying to get the best deal on strings and the like, but I know enough to be able to have a go at the head stock. I've ordered 2 sets of these anodized washers and screws...
10PCS BLACK M6 WIDE HEX SCREW BOLT BUMPER FENDER WASHER ANODIZED ALUMINUM CIVIC | eBay
So it was time to begin to draw something up. It needed a few specs...
1. No sharp turns for the tapewound bits.
2. A solid lock-down.
3. Something that looked like a headstock.
I've come up with 45mm spacing on the nut like the ABM brass grubscrew nut which was 44mm. Close enough. This is the basics of what I have so far...
The idea with this is as you tighten the screws down (clockwise), it will wind IN tension rather than wind it out. It drew it wrong to begin with and hand them going around anticlock wise. I do need to test the theory out with some timber and a washer, but I reckon it should be neat and nice to look at. I get around the "doesn't have tuners" issue without throwing lots of weight at it.
I've accidentally ended up looking like [Invalid or Expired Link Removed] a little, but I'll avoid the headstock shape. Next I get to start thinking about my shape.
10PCS BLACK M6 WIDE HEX SCREW BOLT BUMPER FENDER WASHER ANODIZED ALUMINUM CIVIC | eBay
So it was time to begin to draw something up. It needed a few specs...
1. No sharp turns for the tapewound bits.
2. A solid lock-down.
3. Something that looked like a headstock.
I've come up with 45mm spacing on the nut like the ABM brass grubscrew nut which was 44mm. Close enough. This is the basics of what I have so far...
The idea with this is as you tighten the screws down (clockwise), it will wind IN tension rather than wind it out. It drew it wrong to begin with and hand them going around anticlock wise. I do need to test the theory out with some timber and a washer, but I reckon it should be neat and nice to look at. I get around the "doesn't have tuners" issue without throwing lots of weight at it.
I've accidentally ended up looking like [Invalid or Expired Link Removed] a little, but I'll avoid the headstock shape. Next I get to start thinking about my shape.
This evening I pulled out my usual headstock template and started mucking around with shapes. It is a little premature in some respects. However, I figure if I can home in on something I like, I can shape a body to fit with that to some extent. Here are my drafts in order...
This next one might be my fave, but I really don't think it would work well with a wall hanger.
Yeah, firebird, t-bird, strat, etc
This is the more workable version of my previous fave. I may work some more on this one.
This next one might be my fave, but I really don't think it would work well with a wall hanger.
Yeah, firebird, t-bird, strat, etc
This is the more workable version of my previous fave. I may work some more on this one.
Hi there, Tomm from Stonefield here. Looks like you've got an interesting project on the go with this build and reading your design considerations at the headstock I thought I'd chime in to let you know, if you're interested, that we do sell the hardware for the Tomm Stanley™ Tuning System separate to the instruments. The headstock side is gearless and only meant to be a friction stay that retains the string but I can quite happily tune with them as well. Could save you some sleepless nights (yeah, I know that side of it all too well).
Hi Tomm, nice to hear from you again. Saw you on Ozbassforum where my handle is Slowlearner. Thanks for the offer. I just had a look at your hardware on your site. Looks well made. For now, I think I'll try what I have ordered for now. I'm trying to use off the shelf fasteners that are easily procured rather than specialized stuff.
Ahhh, small world. Will be interesting to see what you finish up with. In the early days of development I had played around with socket head cap screws and blind nuts. There were limitations but the arrangement did work and as you're trying to do, I could get them at just about any hardware store. If you're not already cross it, check out the Avraham Bar Rashi guitar for a really interesting take on using simple hardware for tuning mechanisms.
Right, so I've just ordered some truss rods, CF bars and... these strings.
Invalid Link Removed
With a 42" winding.
Invalid Link Removed
With a 42" winding.
The price of most bass strings has come down a lot, but not the La Bella's. I just bought a regular set and they were $32. Those extra long ones are expensive! They do sound great though very mellow and deep.
