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Building Walking Basslines Lesson 1

#141
Thanks for the reply, I see it as R-ii-5 then a lead to the next chord. Another F in this case as F leads to Bb.

Then with the 2nd measure (Bb7) starts with the root note of Bb7 or B then - a move to the 5 (F) --- now talk to me about the C.

C is the 5th of F - in the measure -- or is it that F is the next chord and C leads to F?

Sorry this is taking me awhile to digest.
 
#142
I don't have the lesson in front of me, but If I'm reading this right, the Bb is the 2nd measure of the blues and the C would actually be the 2nd or 9th of Bb, but it leads to the 5th of Bb which is F, which is a natural movement to resolve to the F "note". I think you need to think of the entire measure as being a Bb chord, and think of the C note as just another way to lead to the 5th of Bb which is F.
 
#143
MalcolmAmos said:
Thanks for the reply, I see it as R-ii-5 then a lead to the next chord. Another F in this case as F leads to Bb.

Then with the 2nd measure (Bb7) starts with the root note of Bb7 or B then - a move to the 5 (F) --- now talk to me about the C.

C is the 5th of F - in the measure -- or is it that F is the next chord and C leads to F?
Click to expand...

Yes. F is the next chord and C leads to F?
 
#146
gmahoog said:
I don't have the lesson in front of me, but If I'm reading this right, the Bb is the 2nd measure of the blues and the C would actually be the 2nd or 9th of Bb, but it leads to the 5th of Bb which is F, which is a natural movement to resolve to the F "note". I think you need to think of the entire measure as being a Bb chord, and think of the C note as just another way to lead to the 5th of Bb which is F.
Click to expand...

Sorry, I should have looked at the lesson before I rambled here. I was thinking of measure 2 as a Bb7 chord with the notes Bb, C, F, Bb and then measure 3 going to the F7 chord.
 
#147
Page 36 modes.
First let me say; I will not be playing melody anytime soon. I will not be getting (or taking) a lead break -- and I'm not a fan of modes being used as an accompaniment. OK all that said.

What hit me on page 36 if we are playing the chord tone interval numbers, under the chord, and have two measures of the same chord perhaps here is a place for modes.

The chord tones are going to occupy four notes of the mode, that leaves the 2-4-6 to insert into the picture somewhere. OK, no brainier the unique note should be in the bass line somewhere, i.e. #4 for Lydian, b7 for Mixolydian, natural 6 for Dorian, flat 2 for Phrygian and if it ever came up flat 2 and flat 5 for locrian.

Now my question. I'm so entrenched in 4/4 and four beats per measure I have always had trouble finding room for anything larger than a pentatonic. AND I'm a firm believer that only modal vamps are to be used when modes are use. Comments on this would be appreciated - not so much about the modal vamp, but on using long runs of scale/mode notes in the accompaniment.

On page 39 - 3rd and 4th measure Ed just runs the Mixolydian mode up and then in the 5th and 6th mode he comes back down with the Mixolydian mode under the Bb7 chord - course he has 4 measures to fit this in. Then in the 7th and 8th he starts using - what I've come to call - any note as long as it's in scale and sounds good. Just draw upon anything that moves the line along. That makes knowing what moves the line along what we should be storing away in our bag of tricks.....

Have I jumped the track? Thoughts and comments.......... Thanks.
 
#148
MalcolmAmos said:
Page 36 modes.
First let me say; I will not be playing melody anytime soon. I will not be getting (or taking) a lead break -- and I'm not a fan of modes being used as an accompaniment. OK all that said.
Click to expand...

What is it Malcom?

You don't like playing the right notes?

This is exactly why bass players should know theirs modes and play them in the right context. There is nothing as bad as a bassist playing a Phrygian mode when he or she SHOULD PLAY a Dorian for example. Terrible! Learn them !
 
#149
slybass3000 said:
What is it Malcom? You don't like playing the right notes? This is exactly why bass players should know theirs modes and play them in the right context. There is nothing as bad as a bassist playing a Phrygian mode when he or she SHOULD PLAY a Dorian for example. Terrible! Learn them !
Click to expand...
Not sure what you mean by not wanting to play the right notes. However, you bring up a good point. As both Phrygian and Dorian are both minor modes, other than wanting an attractive jazz mood in which case I would select the Dorian mode or wanting an exotic Spanish mood and in this case I would select the Phrygian mode. Other than that what would you consider to be the deciding factor in selecting one over the other?
 
#150
MalcolmAmos said:
Not sure what you mean by not wanting to play the right notes. However, you bring up a good point. As both Phrygian and Dorian are both minor modes, other than wanting an attractive jazz mood in which case I would select the Dorian mode or wanting an exotic Spanish mood and in this case I would select the Phrygian mode. Other than that what would you consider to be the deciding factor in selecting one over the other?
Click to expand...

When there is only one measure to get to the next chord, I let my ear be the judge. Modes are a great study, but I don't like having to think so much as to what is the correct mode. I've been practicing "Autumn Leaves" pretty extensively the last few weeks and find that scalar aproach between chords is pretty easy to figure out by ear without thinking about the mode.
 
#151
Modes are not the goal, they are tools we use to make our lines work with the harmony. A Gm7 chord out of context could be one of these three choices - II-7 in F, III-7 in Eb, or VI-7 in Bb... if you don't know which mode goes with chord, you're going to play scale tones that might not fit the harmony.

The point is, learning the modes is a necessary part of making musical sense, but they are not the "answer" to your problems.

And... if you're already working on stuff that far into the book - have you REALLY mastered everything that comes before it? I have no way of knowing, but jumping ahead before you're ready - tempting as it may be, will only lead to more confusion. It's confusing enough, might as well take the time to really get the basics down.

IMHO
 
#152
edfriedland said:
Modes are not the goal, they are tools we use to make our lines work with the harmony. A Gm7 chord out of context could be one of these three choices - II-7 in F, III-7 in Eb, or VI-7 in Bb... if you don't know which mode goes with chord, you're going to play scale tones that might not fit the harmony.

The point is, learning the modes is a necessary part of making musical sense, but they are not the "answer" to your problems.

And... if you're already working on stuff that far into the book - have you REALLY mastered everything that comes before it? I have no way of knowing, but jumping ahead before you're ready - tempting as it may be, will only lead to more confusion. It's confusing enough, might as well take the time to really get the basics down.

IMHO
Click to expand...

Exactly.

To re-enforce my point I'll add this: MODES ARE FUNCTIONNALS and are not interchangeables. This is the reason that bass players have to play a Dorian mode when the minor chord function as a II min7 in a key center.

We, bass players, are the ones in a band that should know the most of modes because the harmony in the vertical and horizontal ways starts with us.
 
#153
slybass3000 said:
Exactly.
To re-enforce this I'll add this: MODES ARE FUNCTIONNALS and are not interchangeables. This is the reason that bass players have to play a Dorian mode when the minor chord function as a II min7 in a key center.

We, bass players, are the ones in a band that should know the most of modes because the harmony in the vertical and horizontal ways starts with us.
Click to expand...
I can not agree with that last statement, I understand how you feel, however, in the ole time classic country I play the harmony is provided by the rhythm guitars. The melody is provided by the lead electric guitar. The bass provides the beat and the groove and if very good shares echo melody runs with the lead guitar. There are no modes in classic Country. At least not in the piney woods of East Texas.

Ed, as far as jumping ahead. I've enjoyed the book and gotten what I want from it. But, I am ready to move on. Appreciate your comments and the time spent with us.

Malcolm
 
#154
MalcolmAmos said:
I can not agree with that last statement, I understand how you feel, however, in the ole time classic country I play the harmony is provided by the rhythm guitars. The melody is provided by the lead electric guitar. The bass provides the beat and the groove and if very good shares echo melody runs with the lead guitar. There are no modes in classic Country. At least not in the piney woods of East Texas.

Ed, as far as jumping ahead. I've enjoyed the book and gotten what I want from it. But, I am ready to move on. Appreciate your comments and the time spent with us.

Malcolm
Click to expand...

OMG Malcom,

You are off track here. Bass is bass and it is the base of the harmony. Modes are everywhere in western (occidental) music.
 
#156
Malcolm, naturally you are free to do whatever you want to do with your time. You may feel some of this info is not relevant to the music you play, but as a point of reference... in Texas Swing, when you're on the 4 chord (let's say you're in C and the chord is F) and you walk back up to the 1 chord you would play these notes: F-G-A-B-C. The first 5 notes of F Lydian. If you played Bb instead of B natural, it would sound wrong. Whether you recognize it as Lydian or not, your ear guides you to the right notes. So, modes are a part of all westernized - and country-ized ;) music. If you feel you've got what you wanted from the book - fine.

Slybass.... well, while I agree with much of your factual based statements, I feel like we have the beginnings here of the thing I dread most about TB, and that is dis-harmony. So, I would appreciate if you could assert your opinion a little more sensitively. I will not get in the middle of an argument. I'm here to clarify the concepts of this book, and hopefully help the folks that want to stay on track achieve that.

Like I said before, you can "get through" the book in a day or two. Understanding the material to where you can improvise walking lines through jazz changes will take quite a bit longer. It requires patience, study, reflection time, and practice. Good luck.
 
#157
edfriedland said:
Malcolm, naturally you are free to do whatever you want to do with your time. You may feel some of this info is not relevant to the music you play, but as a point of reference... in Texas Swing, when you're on the 4 chord (let's say you're in C and the chord is F) and you walk back up to the 1 chord you would play these notes: F-G-A-B-C. The first 5 notes of F Lydian. If you played Bb instead of B natural, it would sound wrong. Whether you recognize it as Lydian or not, your ear guides you to the right notes. So, modes are a part of all westernized - and country-ized ;) music. If you feel you've got what you wanted from the book - fine.

Slybass.... well, while I agree with much of your factual based statements, I feel like we have the beginnings here of the thing I dread most about TB, and that is dis-harmony. So, I would appreciate if you could assert your opinion a little more sensitively. I will not get in the middle of an argument. I'm here to clarify the concepts of this book, and hopefully help the folks that want to stay on track achieve that.

Like I said before, you can "get through" the book in a day or two. Understanding the material to where you can improvise walking lines through jazz changes will take quite a bit longer. It requires patience, study, reflection time, and practice. Good luck.
Click to expand...


I understand your point even if I don't think I've put "dis-harmonization" in the thread. Just try to re-enforce some very important aspects of your book and about harmony in general which is a very important aspect to become a much better bassist.

Since this is your book and in a way your thread, I'll back off from here.
 
#160
Slybass - no need to back off, just consider how your words will effect others. You can say what you need to say. Like I said, I agree with the facts. Internet threads are a difficult way to communicate and people read things that are not being said, and others write things that are not being said... So, that's my point.


RE: the inactivity of this thread... well, I hope it means everyone is taking their time and learning the material. I'll check in once in a while. If it dies due to lack of interest, so be it.
 

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