Buying a 110v amp for a 240v world

[Burning_Sphere]

Jerrold said that transormers in SVT-CL need to be re-wired
so I plan to use external transformer 230 -> 110V

but:
in ampeg svt3pro manual 'power supply' section sais 'domestic 110V etc; other 230V'
but in amped svt-cl manual there are both types stated without difference for domestic and europe.

Any idea?

 

[Jerrold Tiers]

Looking at the rear panel of the CL on Ampeg's site, it appears that the voltage selection must be made by a tech inside the chassis, not by a user flipping a switch on the rear panel.

However, the manual for the SVT3Pro seems to be the same way, which leads me to believe that the manuals available on-line are for the US Domestic market and "export" products are slightly different.

Perhaps Jerrold can shed some light on that for us...

Don't know about on-line manuals.....

Yes, so far, with the EXCEPTION of the SVT8PRO, the units all need to be switched inside, IF they can be converted.

SVT series, and some others, can be converted, so long as they are SLM era units, post 1995 or so. Low cost units in B series may not be convertible from US domestic without changing transformers.

The 8PRO can be plugged in anywhere, 100 Vac to 240Vac, no switches to switch, no fus, no muss, no bother. Just get a cord that fits the wall outlet. This is because it has a "universal" switchmode power supply.

Now, what FUTURE Ampeg stuff will be like, I have no clue.

Most future Ampeg units will probably be designed in china, and I don't know what they will have for specs from the marketing folks.

 

[Stuggi]

The reason Mesa is so expensive outside the US is that they use a separate powersupply design for their non-US amps. And since they probably sell more amps to the US than to the 230V-part of the world, they'll have a bigger production quantity of the 115v-ones. This means that they can produce the 115v-ones at a cheaper price. Also, transformers with a primary winding meant for 230volt doesn't sell very well in the US, so Mesa will probably have to have them custom made, which cost extra.
So, if you get a 230v Mesa amp, take in to consideration that it's to some extent a custom job.

Why they don't use a transformer with two 115volt primary windings is beyond me.

 

[Bassman62]

The reason Mesa is so expensive outside the US is that they use a separate powersupply design for their non-US amps. And since they probably sell more amps to the US than to the 230V-part of the world, they'll have a bigger production quantity of the 115v-ones. This means that they can produce the 115v-ones at a cheaper price. Also, transformers with a primary winding meant for 230volt doesn't sell very well in the US, so Mesa will probably have to have them custom made, which cost extra.
So, if you get a 230v Mesa amp, take in to consideration that it's to some extent a custom job.

Why they don't use a transformer with two 115volt primary windings is beyond me.

So you'r saying that a different transformer costs £745 UK/$1495 USD? I don't think so!

 

[Stuggi]

No, what I'm saying is that if they're messy to reconfigure for 230v, it means that they are using a different design. This means that they make the 230v amps in a much smaller scale than the 115v american ones. And the smaller the scale, the more expensive the production. Plus the fact that transformers with a primary for 230volts are completly useless in the US, which mean that no manufactures makes them in any significant scale, which again means that the transformers gets more expensive. Which means that Mesa has to custom order these, which probably means that they have to pay at least double price for them.
So there's a bit larger productioncosts for the 230v amps, which cuts into Mesas profitmargin, which means they'll have to up their price. When you add shipping, customs, and multiple retailercuts into the deal, a priceincrease of 1500 dollars isn't that large.

But, still, it's pretty idiotic of Mesa not to use a transformer with two 115v taps, which then could be reconfigured just be switching a fuse and putting the windings in series instead of parallell.

 

[Bassman62]

So there's a bit larger productioncosts for the 230v amps, which cuts into Mesas profitmargin, which means they'll have to up their price. When you add shipping, customs, and multiple retailercuts into the deal, a priceincrease of 1500 dollars isn't that large.l.

That is ******** or do you work for Mesa! a transformer is a transformer whether for 110v or 240v, 1500 dollards my ass.

 

[T-Bird]

Hi.

No, what I'm saying is that if they're messy to reconfigure for 230v, it means that they are using a different design. This means that they make the 230v amps in a much smaller scale than the 115v american ones. And the smaller the scale, the more expensive the production. Plus the fact that transformers with a primary for 230volts are completly useless in the US, which mean that no manufactures makes them in any significant scale, which again means that the transformers gets more expensive. Which means that Mesa has to custom order these, which probably means that they have to pay at least double price for them.
So there's a bit larger productioncosts for the 230v amps, which cuts into Mesas profitmargin, which means they'll have to up their price. When you add shipping, customs, and multiple retailercuts into the deal, a priceincrease of 1500 dollars isn't that large.

But, still, it's pretty idiotic of Mesa not to use a transformer with two 115v taps, which then could be reconfigured just be switching a fuse and putting the windings in series instead of parallell.

+1 to all of the above.

All of my old Marshall and Fender tube amps have a possibility for several different operating voltages. IMHO the possibility to tour around the world was essential for an amp manufacturer to survive back in 70's. And it should be that way still. Even my 66-68 2003 has that feature and AFAIK that is as rare as Marshalls can be.

OTOH I have 2 110V carver PM1.5 amps and the stepper in the rack outweighs the two amps by a great margin, but that's the price to pay.

The manufacturers can, and will charge whatever they feel appropriate for a "custom job" such as multiple taps in transformers, because 90% of the buyers don't have a choice. It sucks, but that's the way it is.

Just my 0.02€
Sam

 

[Bassman62]

The manufacturers can, and will charge whatever they feel appropriate for a "custom job" such as multiple taps in transformers, because 90% of the buyers don't have a choice. It sucks, but that's the way it is.
Just my 0.02€ Sam

Once again ********, shipments to the UK are bulk orders not custom.
The UK is a rip-off market that is why Ashdown amps (a British amp by the way) are more expensive in the UK than the in the US, What part of a Fender Strat is custom made to make it nearly twice the US price in the UK, is it special hand wound pickups solid gold trem arm?
$1500 to fit an alternative transformer wow, I know Dick Whittington was told that the streets of London were paved in gold but this takes the cake.

 

[Stuggi]

I'm not argueing that it's fair, it's just the way it it.

But you don't seem to understand that it's a added costs for making all the 230V amps powersections SEPARETE from the rest of the production, plus the fact that all transformers with a singel 230v primary have to be CUSTOM-MADE or IMPORTED to the US since there ISN'T any domestic use for 230v transformers.

Still, I don't know, but from the account of techs that have modded mesa gear for 230v, I have the feeling that they don't use the standard double 115v primary transformers that can be switched more simple.

And btw, do you think shipping's free just because it's shipped in bulk? It's does infact cost additonal to freight stuff over the atlantic, no matter how much you ship, compared to shipping the same stuff buy railroad or truck inside the US.
And since there's an extra middleman when gear get's imported (called the importer), his markup is added to the final price.

 

[T-Bird]

Hi, Bassman62

BS policy from US manufacturers, that I do agree. Stuggis and my wiews of the issue bein BS, hardly.

We customers can vote with our feet, but I doubt that US manufacturers care too much about foreign markets anyway, so to me it seems like a lose/lose situation. When the Chinese manufacturers turn their loose capital to the instrument amplification, if ever, things will turn worse I recon.

Just my 0.02€
Sam

 

[Bassman62]

I'm not argueing that it's fair, it's just the way it it. But you don't seem to understand that it's a added costs for making all the 230V amps powersections SEPARETE from the rest of the production, plus the fact that all transformers with a singel 230v primary have to be CUSTOM-MADE or IMPORTED to the US since there ISN'T any domestic use for 230v transformers..

You've used the word all most Mesa export models will have different a transformer to the US model it is most likely that they export more gear than they sell in the US, also this one custom transformer will fit most export models, I've had a custom transformer wound for an Orange 120 amp recently, it cost $110 USD, that was for one off. I am also involved in custom amp production.
If US transformers are imported it will be from China where the cost will be peanuts.

 

[Bassman62]

Hi, Bassman62

BS policy from US manufacturers, that I do agree. Stuggis and my wiews of the issue bein BS, hardly.
When the Chinese manufacturers turn their loose capital to the instrument amplification, if ever, things will turn worse I recon. Just my 0.02€
Sam

A growing percentage of instrument amplification is already being manufactured in the far east, India and North Africa; some of it is crap but much of it is of top name brands and finshed off in the UK to then call it a UK product, you'd be shocked to find just how much this happens.
When the Vietnam market opens things will be 'buy one get one free'.

 

[perogato02]

So what happens if the current surges too high? Does the fuse blow or does the amp cook?

That suggests that a 230v amp would work off 240v most of the time. ie: big surges in Aussie voltage would end the party?

Well, I've an Ampeg SVT-15T-combo which is an 130V-one and I live in Belgium which has 220V ... and yes, I have played on the thing.
The result: fried transistors (and a strong fuzz).
Does anybody have the wiring schematics of the SVT-15T so I can adjust the sucker, please?

 

[T-Bird]

Hi.

A growing percentage of instrument amplification is already being manufactured in the far east, India and North Africa; some of it is crap but much of it is of top name brands and finshed off in the UK to then call it a UK product, you'd be shocked to find just how much this happens.
When the Vietnam market opens things will be 'buy one get one free'.

Yes, but not by Chinese brands. To me it's just a feeler and the scale is really peanuts compared to what it will be if the corporate heads there decide that the profit margin is enough and the market will bear the non-competition situation for a while. The ownership structure of the manufacturers is more or less unknown to us anyway, so there's really no guarantees what will happen.

Nothing really shocks me anymore, call me a passive youngster if You will .

After all IMHO, it's sadly all about money. Not products, not jobs, not the well being of workers, just money. If all those things should happen while making money, cool, but not neccessary. My wiew might be a bit dim, but that's just the way I've seen it for a while now.

Regards
Sam

 

[Bassman62]

Hi.Yes, but not by Chinese brands. To me it's just a feeler and the scale is really peanuts compared to what it will be if the corporate heads there decide that the profit margin is enough and the market will bear the non-competition situation for a while. The ownership structure of the manufacturers is more or less unknown to us anyway, so there's really no guarantees what will happen.
Nothing really shocks me anymore, call me a passive youngster if You will
After all IMHO, it's sadly all about money. Not products, not jobs, not the well being of workers, just money. If all those things should happen while making money, cool, but not neccessary. My wiew might be a bit dim, but that's just the way I've seen it for a while now.Regards Sam

Hi Sam please believe me the scale is not peanuts it is massive, years ago in the UK you paid £1 UK $1.9 USD per watt for a power amp, I can pick up a 300 watt power amp for less than £100 in the UK, manufactuiring of all kinds in the UK is going to India and the far east on an ever increasing scale.
In the Late 70s a 100 watt per side HH powered desk cost £600 UK, today I can pick up a far astern 400 watt per side powered desk including effects for £300 UK.
I don't think that your views are dim they are your views and you speak as you find which is what I do.

 

[BillyB_from_LZ]

...

Now, what FUTURE Ampeg stuff will be like, I have no clue.

Most future Ampeg units will probably be designed in china, and I don't know what they will have for specs from the marketing folks.

__________________________________

Yes I USED TO work for Ampeg...but I haven't forgotten everything.

YIKES!!!!

Pehaps I'm drawing a line having only a single point (Jerrold is no longer with Ampeg) but this doesn't sound too promising.

Sorry to read this Jerrold...perhaps it's time to develop your own line of amps!

 

[agedhorse]

There are slight differences in cost (and design) between 115volt/60Hz and 230volt/50Hz, including additional primary windings (turns) and a slightly larger core to accomodate the lower 50Hz line. MAYBE, this would account for $50.00 in any product.

There are a lot of other factors that may explain the cost differences between markets, including shipping, insurance, customs fees, importer profit, service center overhead, market specific advertising etc.

 

[Bassman62]

There are slight differences in cost (and design) between 115volt/60Hz and 230volt/50Hz, including additional primary windings (turns) and a slightly larger core to accomodate the lower 50Hz line. MAYBE, this would account for $50.00 in any product.

There are a lot of other factors that may explain the cost differences between markets, including shipping, insurance, customs fees, importer profit, service center overhead, market specific advertising etc.

I can purchase a 15" Mesa Walkabout Scout combo in the US and import it for £500 less than the retail price quoted in the UK.
When you consider that I will have paid the US retail Price (not trade), shipped it as a single item (not bulk) paid US tax (no tax on export trade for business's) and paid both UK Vat and customs duty the sums don't add up, there is no way that an item should cost 2.5 times the US prices, Mesa could sell tons more gear in the UK at the right prices but not the rip-off prices.

 

[agedhorse]

Note that I was NOT justifying the cost difference, but just noting where SOME of the cost differences may occur. I agree that in some cases it's anything but free market trade. In some countries you do not have to pay directly for health care for instance, and I would expect that some of the taxes you pay are used for such social benefits that you all enjoy that we don't here in the states.

 

[T-Bird]

Hi Sam please believe me the scale is not peanuts it is massive, years ago in the UK you paid £1 UK $1.9 USD per watt for a power amp, I can pick up a 300 watt power amp for less than £100 in the UK, manufactuiring of all kinds in the UK is going to India and the far east on an ever increasing scale.
In the Late 70s a 100 watt per side HH powered desk cost £600 UK, today I can pick up a far astern 400 watt per side powered desk including effects for £300 UK.
I don't think that your views are dim they are your views and you speak as you find which is what I do.

It's not peanuts taken out of the context, I was comparing the recent situation with the possible scale in the future as the rest of my sentence explains.

The prices of the power semiconductors has also dropped to 1/10 from that time. And although HH hasn't been nowhere near the top of my list of equipment, some of those amps are still in service and continue to do so along all the quality suff from that time period.

The 300€/Kw range far east amps are IMHO a joke, and in a way a bad one at that. Those POSs last the 3 year warranty period tops with light duty, but no-one that I know use them after the first one blows. As there's usually no schematics available, there's no feasible way to repair them even if one finds the right parts to do it. The best thing about those amps is the impact they have on the prices of older quality PA amps, those can be bought dirt cheap considering the quality.

Again this is just my 0.02€
Sam