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Buying a 110v amp for a 240v world

#61
agedhorse said:
Note that I was NOT justifying the cost difference, but just noting where SOME of the cost differences may occur. I agree that in some cases it's anything but free market trade. In some countries you do not have to pay directly for health care for instance, and I would expect that some of the taxes you pay are used for such social benefits that you all enjoy that we don't here in the states.
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US stockists are barred from sending instruments/equipment overseas by such companys as Mesa, Fender and probably many more, my friend recently purchased a Fender Strat in the US for nearly half the price that they are in the UK.
You actualy pay for health care in the UK by 'National Insurance' contributions out of your wages this also takes care of your state pension, next year when I'm 65 I'll get the princely sum of $200 USD per week for 50 years contributions including a stint in the army.
 
#62
I was thinking specifically of the costs of those who didn't work that are born by those of you who who do, plus any shortfalls being picked up from those additional fees that are part of all the additional taxes/fees/etc that are paid by manufacturers/importers. I'm sure there are, unfortunately, plenty of cases though where pricing protections are taken advantage of.
 
#64
Tendollarcat said:
Has anyone ever looked at converting power amps? Is anything required in conversion for pre amps?

I'm thinking it might be time to branch out a bit and don't want to have to remortgage my house to buy something within Australia:D
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It depends entirely on the manufacturer of the specific amp and preamp. In general preamps are easier and less expensive to change, or even use an external auto-transformer (provided the preamp's power supply was designed to operate on 50Hz).
 
#65
1) things with an SMPS.....

MOST should be convertible with one jumper.

Many others, particularly low powered things, may not need ANY change for 100 thru 240V, 50/60 hz.

A few may be 120/240 convertible,but not allow 100V

A very few may be voltage specific, 120 only or 240 only

For low powered stuff, the "universal" supply is almost free. (somewhat true of iron transformers also)

2) things with "iron" transformers.

Anything goes.

MAY be 120V 60Hz (or 240V) only. (240/50 hz works fine on 240 60 Hz)

May be 120/240 50/60 hz with or without a 100V tap



The maker decides, and anything NOT provided for is usually expensive to change.

The biggest bugaboo is the 60Hz 120 only transformer. It may or may not work OK on 50 hz from a step-down transformer.
 
#67
Does anyone know if its easyish to swap a GK 700RB II from 120V (US) to 240V (UK). There are a couple of them in the listings right now and even with the shipping they are a damn sight cheaper than a new one :help:

I'm really gassing for one of these if its a easy conversion then i can snap one up if not i'll need to start saving:hyper: :bassist:
 
#70
Just so everyone is absolutely clear about the source of the price differences in US and non-US markets, remember that pricing is a function of market analysis, and really has nothing directly to do with production (or other) costs -- except that generally manufacturers won't want to sell at a loss, of course!

In short, through segmenting the market geographically, manufacturers seek to maximise their profits by setting the price at the level they believe to be most profitable for each market segment, rather than setting a single price over all market segments.

Here's a paragraph from thr Wikipedia article entitled "Market Segment" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Market_segment. It discusses price discrimination in the context of a monopoly, but the concept generalises:

Price discrimination

Where a monopoly exists, the price of a product is likely to be higher than in a competitive market and the quantity sold less, generating monopoly profits for the seller. These profits can be increased further if the market can be segmented with different prices charged to different segments (referred to as price discrimination), charging higher prices to those segments willing and able to pay more and charging less to those whose demand is price elastic. The price discriminator might need to create rate fences that will prevent members of a higher price segment from purchasing at the prices available to members of a lower price segment. This behaviour is rational on the part of the monopolist, but is often seen by competition authorities as an abuse of a monopoly position, whether or not the monopoly itself is sanctioned. Examples of this exist in the transport industry (a plane or train journey to a particular destination at a particular time is a practical monopoly) where Business Class customers who can afford to pay may be charged prices many times higher than Economy Class customers for essentially the same service. Microsoft and the Video industry generally also price exactly the same product at widely varying prices depending on the market they are selling to, and try to enforce this with a mix of legislation and Digital Rights Management.
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Also, the manufactured cost of an item usually runs at about 20% of the final sale price; so the additional cost of an particular component such as a transformer is not going to impact materially on the final price in any way. It's all marketing, pure and simple. Manufacturers would _love_ to be able to sell their goods in the US at the prices they sell them elsewhere; trouble is, the US is a huge (and very competitve) market. If you want to do business in the US, be prepared to price keenly, and hope to sell lots of units!

-Mark
 
#71
Hopefully this is not running too far afoul of the rules.....

In actual fact, most products do NOT have manufacturing costs of "20% of retail".

A very usual costing structure (for US manufacturing) is that the dealer cost is around 150% of manufactured cost. The retail list price is then around 2x dealer cost. Any discounts are up to the dealer, and there may be a an "MAP" or minimum advertised price.

Different companies differ in their expected "margin" which is the word for the dealer cost vs the manufactured cost.

That structure makes the manufactured cost about 33% of the retail list, and a higher percentage of any discounted price.

The problem with many export prices is that the shipping and distribution costs are more than for domestic, obviously. It depends on where those are figured into the final price.

And the DISTRIBUTOR decides on the final price, not the manufacturer.

Essentially, the "dealer price" gets the shipping and all distributor's costs added onto it, and THEN the retail list is determined.

It is as if the US manufacturer were NOT to sell to music stores in the US, but rather to sell to a wholesaler, a warehouse operation which actually sold to the dealers. Obviously that would also raise costs.

Not a surprise if the cost is then higher for export products on an "absolute" basis, since another layer of costs has been added on.

Many manufacturers have set up offshore divisions so they can lower costs and become more competitive in offshore markets. They take the distributor profits themselves, and can lower the costs by allowing less profit in order to increase volume.

When you import your own product, you take the shipping etc 'at cost" instead of having to make a profit over it.

But you get a US product, and not one made to meet your safety and voltage requirements....
 
#72
Jerrold Tiers said:
Hopefully this is not running too far afoul of the rules.....
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Why would that be the case?
Jerrold Tiers said:
In actual fact, most products do NOT have manufacturing costs of "20% of retail".
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The figure I last read for worldwide manufacturing over all industries was actually 18%. Obviously, the number will vary over specific industries. A rule of thumb when figuring pricing is that if your manufacturing costs are more than 33% of retail, you're not going to be viable. So the 33% figure you propose is right on the edge of that.

My point was that the differential cost of a single component like a transformer was not going to be driving the final price in any material way. And that point holds as true for 33% as it does for 18%.
Jerrold Tiers said:
And the DISTRIBUTOR decides on the final price, not the manufacturer.
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Not necessarily. It depends on the distribution agreement, obviously.
Jerrold Tiers said:
Essentially, the "dealer price" gets the shipping and all distributor's costs added onto it, and THEN the retail list is determined.
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Jerrold Tiers said:
Many manufacturers have set up offshore divisions so they can lower costs and become more competitive in offshore markets. They take the distributor profits themselves, and can lower the costs by allowing less profit in order to increase volume.
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If this were always true, then the companies with offshore divisions would always show less of a difference in pricing with respect to domestic pricing than companies that use independent distributors. Certainly not the case in Australia; Fender (which has an Australian division) has a much greater "mark-up" over US prices than Vox (which uses an independent distributor), for example.

Jerrold's discussion above seems to assume that pricing is a cost driven exercise... that the main determinant of price are the costs incurred in delivering the item to the final consumer. Not so.

The essential "take home" point is that prices are set to maximise profitability, pure and simple. In other words, if it costs more in your part of the world, the reason driving this is not a simple reflection of the additional costs to deliver it to the final consumer. Rather, it is the decision by marketing folks to determine at what price level a certain geographical market segment is most profitable.

-Mark
 
#74
You must ask yourselves where is the logic that many of these arguments are based on when Ashdown products sell for less in the US than in the UK which is the manufacturing country of the product, an immediate example being the Ashdown Superfly which sells at £199 in the UK and £149 in the US, it Doesn't cost 25% more to send by road to UK shops than it costs to ship to the US or is it as some have suggested that UK transformers are so much more expensive?
 
#75
Bassman62 said:
You must ask yourselves where is the logic that many of these arguments are based on when Ashdown products sell for less in the US than in the UK which is the manufacturing country of the product, [...]
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My two posts above cover all this.

GBP199 in the UK has been determined by Ashdown to be the most profitable price for that market; GBP199 in the US has been determined to be the most profitable price level in that market. Pretty much end of story.

-Mark
 
#76
#78
bumnote said:
While Igree whole heartedly about UK prices, as someone who has imported a fair bit over the years, VAT is a heavy tax at 17.5%, and has a significant effect

What sales taxes are there in the US
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It varies from place to place. The state of Oregon (where Portland is) has zero percent sales tax (last time I was there anyway). Near Chicago it can vary from 6.5% to 10%. Each state has a base sales tax rate and then counties and cities can add their own.

In some states, necessities like food and clothing have reduced sales tax rates or might be sales tax free.

With respect to gear...I can order from Musician's Friend and not pay sales tax (even though they're owned by Guitar Center)...but if I order from Guitarcenter.com I pay sales tax because there are Guitar Center stores in my state. It becomes quite a game...
 
#79
plugger said:
My two posts above cover all this.

GBP199 in the UK has been determined by Ashdown to be the most profitable price for that market; GBP199 in the US has been determined to be the most profitable price level in that market. Pretty much end of story.

-Mark
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That is a silly (pretty much end of story) comment, when first launched they were £500 $1000.
Even at the get rid of price of £199 we're still being ripped off in the UK compared to the US!
 
#80
Plugger forgets that another price driver is competition.

The 33% is a goal when you want to have the lowest price.

There are exceptions... If you are selling clothes, and the retail is not at least 10X the manufactured cost. you are "losing your shirt".

Other consumer products have varying prices.

AND, the "level" at which the costs are taken is important also. A cost deemed to be incurred in manufacturing is multiplied by the full markup, but if deemed to be incurred at "corporate" it is multiplied by less. Shipping to warehouse is an example. There are a number of 'artificial" costs and decisions about where a cost is "incurred" that affect how profitable the 33% is. it can be MORE profitable than a nominally higher markup, if the costs are incurred BEFORE the mark.

But when competition exists and the lowest profitable price is desired, the 33% is about there.
 

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